Lets Talk about Shandy Glossgleam

[Kairu]

If you know anything about the battered hilt, you'll almost immediately know who I'm referring to, in the title of this thread.

I haven't organized any of these thoughts, so forgive me if what I am about to write is not taken well. It's just my own perspective.

I've been playing on the Icecrown realm since september of 2017, briefly played Lordaeron in 2017 or perhaps 2016 as well.
In that time I've been on both alliance and horde (started horde), played for a while horde side before swapping to Alliance and meeting some people that I'd eventually decide to make the Alliance my home faction.

In all the time I've been playing though, through all the rdfs, raids, etc that I've done across my characters, it baffles me that when it comes to Shandy Glossgleam, a player could be stuck waiting for hours, if not days for a single item to spawn. One that, under healthy circumstances, should only take 5 - 10 mins, tops.

What I'm getting at here is how.. Other players seem to handle those that are doing the Quel'delar quest line. Since both the horde and the alliance have to come here, I could understand if it's only one faction trolling the other, stealing the tabard or purposely ruining the quest for the other faction.

But it's just players in general. I've observed over the past week alone (As I'm a GL currently) several times where players from either faction just sit for hours on end, purposely failing, purposely stealing/deleting/stealing again, the Borrowed Tabard that is supposed to be the reward from Shandy Glossgleam for correctly doing the quest: "A suitable disguise".

The first time, I was wanting to assist a friend of mine. Took about 8 hours in total, we'd leave for a few hours, come back. But still the same few people that day. Doing the same thing. What's the issue, here?

I've made video recordings, filed tickets to see if there was a way that perhaps the people involved would get punished, or that a GM could otherwise assist with the situation. I realize it's impossible to know if a ban was carried out in regards to the people I recorded griefing the Tabard drop, but surely there could be some response besides the generic "Check the bug tracker" reply, when a ticket I send mentions nothing about a bug, but other players actions making a quest rather difficult if not impossible to complete?

Again I apologize if it seems as though I'm whining. I didn't really try to formulate a more.. Eloquent sort of post, here. It's more or less me wondering if other people have noticed this sort of thing, and if the GMs are aware of it / have any input regarding it.

[angrylol]

That's just how it is with so high population. Most of the time you can just be faster to click, make some macros and bind interact key, etc.
That part is most annoying, there is nothing you can do, except just waiting for opportunity to finish before some arseholes start to click on stuff. Take lots of chances and one will succeed.


And btw if you feed the trolls they will never go away. And the fact that you wrote a blanket about it is proof that trolls had a best day with you.

[Kairu]

It's an interesting point you make, and I'll fully admit that yeah, some of the people who have been abusing the "Borrowed Tabard" quest from Shandy Glossgleam did bother me. But I'd like to see how you'd go about getting the tabard yourself, when faced with players that will either

A. Take the quest before you
B. Throw the laundry to make you fail the quest. (Shandy will leave if another player spams clothing to trigger the "failed" text line.)
C. Steal the Tabard before you can click it.

Besides waiting/leaving then coming back later and hoping that you can do it then, or stealing the tabard yourself, I don't see how you could manage to properly do the quest without getting really lucky.

[angrylol]

Been there, done that. Multiple times.
No one is going to stand and wait for you to finish your stuff. You are not their main character, they themselves are. And it's rare to meet some actual dude who stands there all day clicking on pants when you are supposed to click on shirt. Only person who gives a **** about you.. is you.
Make your own luck. Bind interact key. Make macro to take quest. Usually those dudes are not the brightest stars, you can be faster and smarter. Talk to people.

It will increase your chances a great deal.

And about stealing tabard, lol I have done that myself. And why not, dude is watching stars and picking his nose, practically saying to take it.

[Kairu]

I do have to wonder, what brought you to that kind of mentality where you feel you have to, as you put it "Make your own luck".

Apart from that, I'd also like to ask when the last time it was you did the quel'delar quest chain, as well. As far as I've observed over the past week (Considering I've had to observe it for the sake of my guild members completing the quest chain, themselves.)

They all get stuck on the laundry due to what ever player(s) that day have decided to dedicate the day to snagging Shandy's quest dialogue, spamming clothes, and stealing the tabard.

I'll admit however, I wasn't aware of a macro/button combination that allowed for interaction with a target outside of right-clicking. So with that in mind, it'll be at least somewhat easier if I go to do it again and there isn't a player spamming the clothes. Not that it would matter in the first place, if said player is also making it their main purpose to screw over anyone that takes the prompt before them.

If you'd like to test your theory, send a mail to Notsureyet. I've got a spare QD myself that I could use to test your methods with, and trust me when I say I really have nothing better to do, myself. I could be there from the moment I wake up, to the moment I go to sleep doing nothing but spamming the clothes to prevent players from progressing in the chain. (Not that I'd do it, as under normal circumstances, I'd rather not resort to such things if I don't have to.)

[Shred92]

There's a bindable button: interact with mouseover. It's a godsend for this and many other things in this game.

[angrylol]

I do have to wonder, what brought you to that kind of mentality where you feel you have to, as you put it "Make your own luck".

You need to understand the game to win it(enjoy it, be good at it, etc, call it whatever you are in it for). I don't mean WoW. I mean - for me game is to get it done ASAP, so I don't spend 5 hrs clicking on damn shirts. It is fair to assume that vast majority play same game as me. And with this high population it's only logical that some rules of game are discarded. Why, for the most part, I would bother to play good and "fair" with some random dudes who I will never play with again? And don't go into exaggerations, I don't run and click everything to hell if someone is doing quest.

It's obvious that no one is making a line at questgiver to do quest in nice order by the "rules". You can start to do that and who knows, maybe it will stick. However I don't try to make Sun rise in the west, and that was my whole point - recognize situation and make best of it.

Flipping bucket upside down, standing on it and declaring that Sun should rise in the west won't make it so.

[Kairu]

Why, for the most part, I would bother to play good and "fair" with some random dudes who I will never play with again

So your mentality in this game is "I don't know who these people are, probably will never meet them. So it's okay for me to be an ******* to them, as there are no forseen repercussions"? It honestly makes it sound like in that case, you couldn't beat 'em, so you joined 'em and became part of the problem, instead. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong in this assumption.

However I don't try to make Sun rise in the west, and that was my whole point - recognize situation and make best of it.

Aye, situation recognized. And best of it is currently being made. With this topic and discussion, I'd hoped to bring some light to the situation however, in an attempt to see what options were available from both the standpoint of both players, and staff on the server. And sure, the laundry quest in the QD chain is acting how it should. But I have to wonder if perhaps something could be done, to make it less of an issue.

Take the shadowmourrne quest line (What I understand of it, anyway.) The only player interaction required is from raiding, as far as I'm aware. Apart from that, players need to file tickets so that GM's can "approve" them and give them another part of that quest chain.

I'm not trying to suggest that GMs suddenly take on the load of all the players who wish to do the QD chain, and I realize that Smourne is a much different weapon in terms of power compared to QD. But I'm wondering if by-chance, there could be something done about it.

Understanding what I do about the clothes section of QD, a player would need to speak with Shandy to begin the quest trigger, then correctly throw laundry until the lootable bag appears on the ground beside the tub. Regardless of if a player fails or succeeds, Shandy despawns for about 5 minutes or so before re-appearing to allow another player the chance to do the quest.

And with people who share the mentality that you do, or even worse: "If I can't do it, nobody can / Making these people ragequit via trolling.", I wanted to perhaps find some kind of alternative, that doesn't have such a big vulnerability in it when it comes to the greedy, selfish, and altogether cruel nature of humanity in general.

I'd even be willing to take the time to learn the ins-and-outs of programming/coding this game, if it meant a better solution/resolution could be made, so I could at least offer it up to Warmane. I've all ready learned some basics when it comes to the game (Through websites that offer files, instruction, etc.) And am aware myself that doing that sort of thing would require time, willingness, and dedication. The only thing that currently pops into my head however is assigning a custom shop to Shandy's minion, Aquanos, who would then be able to offer the borrowed tabard for a certain price in either gold, emblems, honor, etc..

(And I realize that falls under "custom content", which for the most part, Warmane itself isn't interested in. I'm also sure that unless bug-tested thoroughly, something like that would probably break a lot of things. May I reference the bugfix regarding one of the death knight glyphs, which ended up breaking the Lich King for several months.)

At any rate, I feel like I'm beginning to ramble and derail myself. So I'll stop here for now and say that if the warmane staff is at all interested in a resolution like what I just suggested, I'd be more than willing to offer my time to figuring out how to make it work.

[angrylol]

So instead of letting players play and solve it themselves via dialogue or competition you want to impose some "lets make it work" stuff. It already works. I have completed that quest chain. Thousands have completed it. It works.

You could expect some level of decency when there was 3k players cap, now it's a different game. I'm not going to be that guy who sits there 5 hrs and lets somebody take my tabard.

I'm interested for people to get it done ASAP and gtfo of there, so I can have my go. You think I'm about "If I can't do it, nobody can / Making these people ragequit via trolling.". You don't understand situation, yet you want to "fix things" and "make it work", it's absurd. With your good intentions you would kill the spirit of WoW and wouldn't even realize it. There is a reason why it's designed that way.

[Kairu]

So instead of letting players play and solve it themselves via dialogue or competition

Dialogue, I could see. Competition as well, I could see. But you're talking about people who frequently spend hours. Hours. Just doing the quest to grief other players. I've tried both methods. In the end, there's usually one or two people around Shandy (For the past week any way) that will camp the quest just to grief/troll. In fact, I even have a friend who made a character just for that specific purpose, to prevent other players from doing the quest.

I'm not going to be that guy who sits there 5 hrs and lets somebody take my tabard.

I'm interested for people to get it done ASAP and gtfo of there, so I can have my go.

I find it strange that you contradicted yourself in a single post like that. Do you want to do it quickly, or not? There are several factors that go into the laundry quest that you seem to be overlooking. Anyone who is on the quest as well can make you fail it just by throwing the wrong clothing. And all the macros in the world wont save you if they know how to do it, too/ you lag at just the right moment.

You think I'm about "If I can't do it, nobody can / Making these people ragequit via trolling."

I didn't claim you to be a troll. I also didn't claim that you sat at the laundry quest, doing what I described in earlier posts. What I was attempting to imply was: "Oh, so you're the kind of person that would just walk up, steal the tabard if given the chance, then go about your business because f*** that person who was doing the quest, I make my own luck."

You don't understand situation, yet you want to "fix things" and "make it work", it's absurd. With your good intentions you would kill the spirit of WoW and wouldn't even realize it. There is a reason why it's designed that way.

All right, if I don't understand how the quest chain works, how the player base in general tends to act/react, and why it's designed the way it is, please feel free to enlighten me on your point of view.

From the way I see it, the way the quest line was designed, it was designed without taking into account of the possibility of multitudes of players on a daily basis being able to obtain, and therefore do the QD quest line.

From my point of view, it was designed for retail standards. Which at this current moment where Icecrown is an accelerated rate server, cannot keep up with. (x2 loot, x3 rep/professions, x7 xp?) So as a result, players get bottlenecked at the clothes quest just due to sheer numbers, and being able to accelerate their characters growth as rapidly as Icecrown allows it to.

Such a situation causes problems, which is what I made this thread in regards to. I wanted to see what kind of responses I could get, by trying to illuminate the subject, and perhaps find a solution if one would be suitable.

But I'd definitely like to see your reasoning on how something like exchanging a certain number of emblems or honor for the tabard would be, as you put it "killing the spirit of WoW".

To my understanding, WoW is about a multitude of things, ranging from becoming a millionaire in the auction house, making friends, roleplaying, player vs. player, exploring, raiding, grinding for X item/skill/mount/recipe.

So please do enlighten me how my suggestion would take that away from removing a bottleneck at an area of the game where people with ill intentions, or people of a mindset like yours (Steal that s*** and get outta there) can openly abuse what I'd call a poorly thought out part of the QD quest chain.

[dolcokidol]

Holy crap you're so butthurt over a quest, what's going to happen when you get into raiding and have loot given out to a person who needs it less than you, or straight up doesn't even need it, more forum whining? I'd just tell my mom to call their mom if I were you, that ought to help.

[Kairu]

Thanks for your contribution to the conversation. Which has been none, in this case. I'll continue waiting for better formulated responses, like for example from my debating comrade here, angrylol. I applaud you for the attempt, however.

[Fathertimejr]

Totally with you OP. This quest makes girls cry. I don't think Blizzard expected there to be 5 people trying to do the quest at all times, if this is even blizz-like. Just taking away his long respawn timer would do a lot to fix this. (If any dev is reading this, BWL attunement mob Scarshield Quartermaster's respawn time is waaaaay too long, too. Was it really over an hour long in retail?)

[Pooppickle]

i did this quest last week with no issues

[angrylol]

I did not contradict. I will take the tabard. If I can't I'll do quest and take it assuming every dude there will try to steal it from me. Imo very reasonable.

I have never met a guy who would just sit there and click on shirts 24/7. I have seen some less fortunate who obviously don't understand what the hell is going on, so klick on stuff.

WoW is social game and you want to take social aspect out of it. Chop it out, bit by bit, "bottleneck" and "trolls" or whatever reasons. Then one day you realize there is sterile plains of vendors with no soul.