Realms Dungeon Deserters

[Obnoxious]

So those guys that do just auto attack/ shoot /wand, is that also not cooperation?
Today we kicked a guy just doing white damage through half of a POS run, that's really not nice either

That would be decided by the GMs and is a different matter from what the thread is about.
It would likely require some video evidence showing they were consistently being a dead weight and refusing to assist the group on purpose even after being called out about it or stuff like that.

[Hrk4o]

What about people who go offline?
I've encountered players who didn't like the dungeon and didn't want to bother to leave or even ask for kick. They disconnect and log on an alt.
I understand that it's not easy for game masters to distinguish if the disconnect was real or fake, but it gets annoying.
I've even been in a dungeon where 3 people went offline, and two people left online (me and the other online guy) aren't enough to kick the offlines. So after waiting 10-15 min we had to get deserter because there was no other way.
I know these situations are rare but people can still use fake DC to avoid getting punishment for asking for kick

[Obnoxious]

I understand that it's not easy for game masters to distinguish if the disconnect was real or fake, but it gets annoying.

As in all other cases, it's on you to provide convincing evidence. If you can't produce any there's no punishment.

[Taryeth]

There absolutely needs to be SOME kind of punitive action taken against people who do this. I have no idea what the people on Warmane realms are smoking, but almost any time even just one person obnoxiously insists on being kicked or holding the run hostage until they are, everyone else suddenly wants to leave. I personally don't have to wait in queues long as a healer, but I'm loathe to imagine all of the time each DPS wastes sitting in a queue, only to have their group disbanded and to be forced to start the whole process over again.

It's been stated in this thread that players who fill the tank and healer roles are in shorter supply, which makes them far more prone to being picky and leaving the group when things aren't going well. That's a given even in live WoW, and I don't disagree with it. Everyone always has the option to play a different role if they want faster queue times. I DO NOT, however, condone people abusing this horrendously incomplete system to ruin gameplay for 3 or 4 other people though. Flat out, it should be a rule that if you queue for a dungeon, there is no excuse to intentionally leave the group until that dungeon is done. There NEEDS to be some sort of drawback to screwing a whole group of people who just waited in a queue just because you don't feel like running the dungeon.

I can agree that the whole 30-minute deserter debuff would be a bit much if one is kicked from a dungeon, but I think that there should be at least a 10-minute cooldown on a RDF queue if you're kicked at the beginning of the dungeon. People can say whatever they want about the abuse of the kick feature, but if we're being totally honest here, we all know that's BS. It's honestly pretty rare that people gang up on one another and kick someone WITHOUT a good reason. Most of the time, it's when someone's just being a dick, and that's a perfectly good enough reason to kick someone in my opinion. People demanding to be kicked on the other hand, is something that I see in AT LEAST 2-3 out of every 5 dungeons I run.

This issue is making RDF a ridiculously crappy and over exploited experience. The only reason why I could imagine this not being fixed is that the DPS are the only ones who really suffer here, and since gearing relies on emblems and drops in dungeons, this makes the option of "donating" and skipping all of that nightmare a lot more attractive to DPS who are just fed up with it. inb4 tinfoil hat

[Obnoxious]

Now try reading my reply from 6 days ago. Without the tinfoil hat.

[Taryeth]

I donned the tinfoil hat in the context of having read all of the messages in this thread. In fact, your messages in particular are one of the primary reasons why one might think that there's a conspiracy here.

The simple fact of the matter is that people are often uninformed and don't know how to properly report someone (or that it's a reportable offense at all), and this behavior therefore goes unpunished. Can you give me an actual reason why it would make sense to ask people to report the miscreants who ruin the game for others and invest more of a GM's hours into sifting through (what should be) hundreds of reports rather than simply automating it?


I can tell you why it doesn't make sense:

1. From what I can tell, no Warmane representative has gone out of their way to make it known that this is against any rules or that it's a reportable offense
2. Even if they did, relying on players to report others for this disgusting behavior is way less consistent and pervasive than just automating it.
3. Even if everyone DID report this and never lied or misrepresented the person they're reporting, you're wasting potentially thousands of hours on reading these reports and actioning accounts when those hours could be invested in handling other tickets.
4. If a GM gets involved, what happens to the person who got reported? Do they get banned? If they get banned for longer than 30 minutes, you're already massively overreaching a boundary that many people in this thread alone have said is too steep of a punishment.

So the only outcomes I see are these: Either nothing happens to the person even after a GM gets involved, meaning there's no actual solution to the problem, but we've wasted players' time in writing the tickets and GMs' time in reading them. OR, someone gets banned for -longer- than 30 minutes, and we've not only given someone a punishment that's inherently disproportionate to the "rule" they broke, but we're also making it take even longer for GMs to reply to other tickets that are much more important, because this. should. be. automated.

Can you outline any issues in these assumptions?

[Obnoxious]

Can you give me an actual reason why it would make sense to ask people to report the miscreants who ruin the game for others and invest more of a GM's hours into sifting through (what should be) hundreds of reports rather than simply automating it?

Easily: not risking to punish people who did nothing wrong just because people might be lazy or claim ignorance about being able to make reports. How GMs' hours are invested is of no concern to you. The punishment they decide to give to this is of no concern to you. There won't be an automatic punishment to people who get kicked. You have the option of reporting people doing it if you like. The basic assumption with an issue here is that of you considering that this decision "doesn't makes sense" equates to it not making sense or not being what's best in line with the policies we want to follow.

[taralej]

There's 2 ways to deal with it - #1 is the 15-minute timer which everyone in the group gets once the RDF group is formed. This prevents anyone in the group from doing exactly what you said - getting kicked/leaving/Alt+F4ing and requeueing; #2 in case the first option fails, people who get kicked can just receive a 30-minute deserter debuff.

#1 exists in the game already.

#2 would be custom and is pretty harsh to, say, the newbie 3.5k GS player who got kicked because he's "low".

[Obnoxious]

Ok, as it seems like my message is getting lost (somehow): the way it will be dealt with is someone refusing to leave and refusing to cooperate, demanding to be kicked or acting in an obtrusive way to get a kick, can be reported with proper evidence and will receive punishment from the GMs.