1. 1 Week Ago  
    It's not impossible at all. Nevermind that not everyone in the game is concerned with doing "the hardest boss". In fact, those who are concerned with such are quite the minority.
    ICC10 isn't exactly hard, and is focused by majority of people at gearing progress. So is 25 Normal.
    Frost mages for sure will get replaced by any other mage with similar gear score, or even worse GS. Same goes for Blood, Arms, and quite surely SV/BM hunts.

    It's less about having fun spec and more about having beneficial (and good at their roles) specs the further you go into raiding.

  2. 1 Week Ago  
    - All Tank specializations are viable. You can accomplish the task with all of them.

    - As the classes aren't balanced and the challenges in dungeons and raids are static, some specializations have an easier time performing the task, while others will require better coordination/communication with the group.

    - Because of the above, many (if not most) will swap "easier time" for "better," often because they don't want to rely on group organization (if the Tank) or don't want to pace themselves to the tank (if others).

    - Objectively, you end up with specializations that will be "more fun to play" from peer pressure, because you will be criticized if not going for "the best" and can be refused in groups if they aren't made by your guild.

  3. 1 Week Ago  
    So naturaly, if you look at it, using logic, its actualy more fun to play a Prot Paladin duo to all the things you can do that Warrior cant.

    There are atleast 10 good specs (even more), and if you want to tell me that not one of them makes your gameplay fun and that you have to play something else, you are lying to yourself.
    You are not being objective at all here. This is all personal opinion. If someone enjoys playing another class, it can be for a million different reasons than just wanting to do the best at their spec. What about off spec? What about PVP? What about all the other factors of the game? I'm not arguing that warrior is a good or bad tank spec. I am just pointing out that because a spec is easier and better, doesn't automatically make it more fun. Someone having fun is purely from the perspective of that person. Maybe playing a more challenging spec is fun for someone, or they wanted to try something new, etc... I could go on forever..

    What you find fun, someone else might not find fun. IE, playing a DK vs a warrior tank :P

  4. 1 Week Ago  
    You are not being objective at all here. This is all personal opinion. If someone enjoys playing another class, it can be for a million different reasons than just wanting to do the best at their spec. What about off spec? What about PVP? What about all the other factors of the game? I'm not arguing that warrior is a good or bad tank spec. I am just pointing out that because a spec is easier and better, doesn't automatically make it more fun. Someone having fun is purely from the perspective of that person. Maybe playing a more challenging spec is fun for someone, or they wanted to try something new, etc... I could go on forever..

    What you find fun, someone else might not find fun. IE, playing a DK vs a warrior tank :P


    ICC10 isn't exactly hard, and is focused by majority of people at gearing progress. So is 25 Normal.
    Sure isn't hard (the game as a whole isn't difficult), but that doesn't mean it's pertinent to the argument.

    Frost mages for sure will get replaced by any other mage with similar gear score, or even worse GS. Same goes for Blood, Arms, and quite surely SV/BM hunts.
    First, ew, gearscore. Second, do you PvP at all?

    It's less about having fun spec and more about having beneficial (and good at their roles) specs the further you go into raiding.
    Um, duh? Saying it's not possible to play those specs, on the other hand, just plain isn't true.

  5. 1 Week Ago  
    First, ew, gearscore. Second, do you PvP at all?
    1st. GS/iLvl/gear, what ever they call it.
    2nd. Hardly, never said the specs aren't viable in PvP though, which they are. The whole posts was regarding PvE.

    Um, duh? Saying it's not possible to play those specs, on the other hand, just plain isn't true.
    Sure it's possible to play any spec you want, just don't expect people to treat you as if you were using more useful spec.

  6. 1 Week Ago  
    @PeNguiNx

    I actualy hate playing DK as a tank, if im not suposed to tank only 1 target, aka MT.
    Why?
    Cos DK sucks on AoE threat and there are better classes suited for that job.
    Nothing you do as a DK will help you not lose aggro to a BiS Fury warrior or Ret paladin cleaving the hell out of mobs.

    But... if you play Prot Paladin, you wont lose aggro so easy.

    On single target aggro, DK is a god compared to other classes so yea...
    All in all, it depends on what you want to focus.

    P.S. explain to me how is it fun to let people die, or get one shoted, or get kited in PvP?

    Edit:
    And no, there is nothing chalenging in playing a warrior tank. The only reason why its considered "hard" is cos the spec has flaws other tank specs dont. U might aswell go grab a warlock and spam Searing Pain and yell at people: "HEAL ME!" if you want to perform some chalenging tanking plays i guess...
    Cos you know, Range, Cloth, Warlocks are so fun to play, metabreaking some could say.

    AGAIN, there is a reason why you build a raid based on buffs and debuffs classes provide, while chosing the classes that do the best personal dps,
    aka:
    FDK > EnhaSham
    MmHunt > BDK
    CRogue > ArmsWar
    DemoLock > EleSham
    And so on...

    But i guess you can also go Enha Sham and never do as good DPS as a FDK and say, im sorry but il rather play a "challenging" class than provide a raid with better dps.
    Cos you know, its fun for me...

    No pug or a guild like those kind of people.

    10 classes, 10+ viable and good specs, chose 1.
    Edited: 1 Week Ago

  7. 1 Week Ago  
    2nd. Hardly, never said the specs aren't viable in PvP though, which they are. The whole posts was regarding PvE.
    But that's not the whole of the game. Parts of the game can't be excluded when sweeping generalizations are made just because it's convenient for one specific argument point.

    Sure it's possible to play any spec you want, just don't expect people to treat you as if you were using more useful spec.
    I don't think anyone here was speaking to the effect of expectations of others. That would be a whole 'nother rant from me.

  8. 1 Week Ago  
    But i guess you can also go Enha Sham and never do as good DPS as a FDK and say, im sorry but il rather play a "challenging" class than provide a raid with better dps.
    Cos you know, its fun for me...

    No pug or a guild like those kind of people.

    10 classes, 10+ viable and good specs, chose 1.
    Exactly. Specs that benefits the raid > the specs that are fun (for you).

  9. 1 Week Ago  
    But i guess you can also go Enha Sham and never do as good DPS as a FDK and say, im sorry but il rather play a "challenging" class than provide a raid with better dps.
    Cos you know, its fun for me...

    No pug or a guild like those kind of people.

    10 classes, 10+ viable and good specs, chose 1.
    Talking about pugs and them failing regularly its more like: skill > best class option
    Especially while forming a pug i will always choose a enha i know (providing haste + BL), who can pull stable 15k dps everytime, over some random dude playing fdk and probably having a hard time doing more than 10dps with his 5,8k gs.

    Everyone who is not playing with a fix core raid, should know that there is not always the perfect setup available and LoD is not always the goal of the raid. A 25 9/12 HC does not need a perfect setup or a full 25 raid, with proper gear it is easy anyway. Sometime let someone play ele instead of forcing someone to switch to demo is the better choice. For 10er a enha is more often the better option, giving you more options for heals.

  10. 1 Week Ago  
    The reason why pugs dont have all the debuffs and buffs is partly cos people play random specs, on top of people speccing like crap...

    My god, idk why are pugs not clearing ICC more often, if 9/12 hc is so easy...

    Also, ROFL. For a Shaman to do constant 15k as Enha, a lot of GS is required. Where a good/equaly skilled DK wins always.

    But i guess we can agree that most of players on Warmane are simply lazy scrubs that only want to get carried. Thats why, even tho there is a video on how to fdk with a full explanation before and after it, Frost DKs still prio Frost Strike over Obliterate and they dont use Death Runes for Obliterate.
    Same goes for Tanks.
    In a comunity where most of the players slack, and you need to overgear content in order to clear it, IT IS ALWAYS, AND ALWAYS WILL BE BETTER, to chose a more viable and safe class over somr kind of "fun" spec.
    You can always make an alt and gear it once you get into the game, and that is why il never tell someone to gear a Warrior tank as its main for the first time of playing wow.

    P.S. you should use a Resto Shaman for BL/Hero, Spell Haste, Mana, Armor and SpellPower or Resistance totem.

  11. 1 Week Ago  
    Exactly. Specs that benefits the raid > the specs that are fun (for you).
    I completely agree. I think where we disagree is at what point that priority becomes mandatory.
    This is just my opinion, but I think a fair number of people take the game a little too seriously. Exercising these sorts of things in practice is fine, but arguing about whether random people you will never play the game with adhere to the elitist point of view is... well...

  12. 1 Week Ago  
    I was in the raid with a BM hunter today.
    Didnt have a problem cos we had all the buffs and debuffs needed in that 10m, and he did good dps.
    Sure, he could have done more as MM, but since it was a guild run, and he actualy did everything perfectly, from traps to spike/adds/beast dps, rather than tunneling the boss only, it was fine...
    FunFact, most of casual players will do casual/bad dps with a spec/class that is better than "fun" one.
    If they play "fun" spec, most of the times they will ignore things that will lower their dps, like switching targets and killing spikes on marrow, just so their dps doesnt go low so they dont get flamed.

    Its not about beeing serious or not, its about playing badly and getting carried.
    Im not saying those who play the right spec do awesome dps, theg suck also most of the time, but atleast a bit less than if they wer some undesirable spec.

  13. 1 Week Ago  
    Its not about beeing serious or not, its about playing badly and getting carried.
    Im not saying those who play the right spec do awesome dps, theg suck also most of the time, but atleast a bit less than if they wer some undesirable spec.
    What you say is true. I'm just of the opinion that if I were say, for example, a guild master of a guild that is doing the tippity-top of raid content, that I would rather choose someone (in terms of recruitment for this case) who is committed to playing Marksman Hunter than asking someone who is committed to Survival or BM to instead play Marksman.
    Whereas in most other areas of the game, I don't feel that it matters and people should be permitted to play whatever they want.

  14. 1 Week Ago  
    It's odd how many people are trashing Protection Warriors over here. I've done ICC10 man normal fully with two Prot Warriors, if the off tank warrior plays it correctly and uses the right items, you can pretty much forget Soul Reaper by just using intervene on the main tank, we're yet to try this in Lich King 10 HC and I'm pretty sure it'd be easy too. My first Bane run was with a Protection Warrior as OT and he did the job amazingly, the main tank (pally) barely took any damage from Soul Reapers due to Intervene.

  15. 5 Days Ago  
    It's odd how many people are trashing Protection Warriors over here. I've done ICC10 man normal fully with two Prot Warriors, if the off tank warrior plays it correctly and uses the right items, you can pretty much forget Soul Reaper by just using intervene on the main tank, we're yet to try this in Lich King 10 HC and I'm pretty sure it'd be easy too. My first Bane run was with a Protection Warrior as OT and he did the job amazingly, the main tank (pally) barely took any damage from Soul Reapers due to Intervene.
    They're statistically the squishiest tanks and are the complete polar opposite of this thread's title. The only reason protection warriors even entered this discussion is because of a fallacious claim that the reason they're the worst is because of bugs, which was then instantly disputed by people in possession of at least one functioning eyeball and basic math skills. Thread was then further hijacked by the usual suspects of the "It's all just a matter of preference" brigade, somehow managing to completely miss the point of a thread that starts with "I don't have a preference, just give me the best one.". At that point further argumentation towards why warriors are not what OP is looking for was inevitable. It's not about trashing warriors, it's about curbing the enthusiasm that may be sparked by false information.

    Warrior baseline tanking stats are simply worse and it takes minimal effort to pull some numbers and see that for yourself.

    Bear: 12% physical damage reduction, 43% stamina, 7417 base health
    Paladin: 12% physical damage reduction, 10% stamina, 7% EHP from Ardent Defender, 6934 base health
    DK: 13% physical damage reduction, 13% stamina, 5.25% EHP from Will of the Necropolis, 8121 base health
    Warrior: 10% physical damage reduction, 9% stamina (why?), 8121 base health

    Warriors have both the lowest physical damage reduction and the lowest stamina multiplier and they don't have any kind of extra EHP increases like DKs and paladins on top of that. The only thing they have going for them is their baseline health and a ranged weapon slot which is nowhere near enough to bring them in line with other tanks. The warrior's baseline passive kit is just inferior in every way to every other tank.

    A lot of people like to point towards warrior active cooldowns as a counterargument to their terrible baseline stats but the truth is they only have 2 worthwhile cooldowns: Shield Wall and Last Stand. Shield Wall requires a major glyph to be in line with the 2 min cooldown of other such abilities that tanks get for free, like Divine Protection and Icebound Fortitude and even after glyphing it, it's still 40% and not 50% like all other similar abilities. Last Stand is good but once again, it has a 3 min cooldown that can be lowered to 2 mins with a glyph, which is still very long. Besides these two abilities, they really don't have anything else that's good. Shield Block is far too weak and far too RNG to be relied on as a cooldown, sometimes you'll block 8k and sometimes you'll block 4k, ultimately you'll still be forced to use an extra cooldown or even two along with it to make sure you don't die. Enraged Regeneration is the most insignificant tanking cooldown in the game and their T10 bonus is only second to the paladin's in terms of overall awfulness.

    As offtanks warriors are far more acceptable due to Safeguard. However Safeguard wont really eliminate the need for your main tank to use cooldowns on LK25hc as you need 10 seconds to cover Soul Reaper from initial hit to finish while Safeguard only lasts 6. It might work in 10 or even 10hc with an overgeared tank due to the lower damage of white swings letting you facetank the last 4 secs of hasted attacks but you can't take chances like that in 25 man, which means your tank will have to use a cooldown anyway and if that cooldown lasts for 10 secs, it kinda makes safeguard redundant.

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