1. That's completely *****ic. It's true that there's nothing Warmane is obligated to do, legally or contractually. But it is a gross violation of trust to let a server die (partly due to neglect) and wipe the entirety of the time donors spent supporting and playing there, without refunding AT LEAST all the coins we spent there. That undermines any value and trust that donors have that Warmane won't **** them over just because they picked the "wrong" realm to spend their money on. It literally costs them nothing but organizational effort to show good will to the donor base and prove that they stand by the value of supporting the server.
    The moment they warned you it's a donation, they do not owe you anything morally either.
    "AT LEAST all the coins we spent there"? You will be/are (not sure) able to move your character to another expansion (with its copy being saved in Warmane's database for a chance they decided to turn Cataclysm on again), so you aren't really losing anything. The fact that you do not want to use whatever you are given is your choice, they have no responsibility about it. Legally or morally.

    If the realm of cataclysm will come back to be enabled and I already migrates my characters to woltk or mop. Can I have them back or already available to play them again in the new realm of ctaclysm?
    Yes, they will have a copy of those characters, according to Mercy (if I recall correctly, sure it was a staff member though)

    lack of demand for the Cataclysm expansion? Are you serious? If you open Cata again I'm sure the other realms will die. INSTANT.
    Really doubt that. Not in this state. If they would do it by first putting them through official ptr stage, make sure everything works, then release with all the hype - maybe there will be people. But even then the other realms will not die, of that I can asure you. But, I believe, it would be better to announce rework of MoP rather than Cata, that might bring in more people.

    I dont see my neltharion char on icecrown. Is there any technical way to move it or it will automatically mirrored on icecrown?
    Might take a while, since you aren't the only one transfering.

  2. I dont see my neltharion char on icecrown. Is there any technical way to move it or it will automatically mirrored on icecrown?
    Might take a while, since you aren't the only one transfering.

    We have no exact date as we are still developing the systems for upgrading and downgrading. As soon as we are done, we will add a specific date and time for the decommission. Postponing is possible but not expected.
    can you guys even read?

  3. I really just want to play Cataclysm. I have been on this server since the transfers from the old wotlk servers pre Molt-down.

  4. hei c mon

    You say that neltharion died because people won't play, I say the realm died because you killed it. For the last years I was checking your changelong every week for some bug fixes/improvements etc. and nothing, while the other realms got constant updates. Shame...at least make a warsong pvp realm and fix class spells/abilities, with your team and focusing only on pvp fixex+spells you can truly do an awesome pvp cata realm.

  5. The moment they warned you it's a donation, they do not owe you anything morally either.
    "AT LEAST all the coins we spent there"? You will be/are (not sure) able to move your character to another expansion (with its copy being saved in Warmane's database for a chance they decided to turn Cataclysm on again), so you aren't really losing anything. The fact that you do not want to use whatever you are given is your choice, they have no responsibility about it. Legally or morally.
    Then why did they restore the coins and points of all the players who lost everything after Moltdown? They sure as hell didn't "owe" anyone anything legally. Your argument holds zero water, both conceptually and empirically.

    Or perhaps you don't understand the meaning of moral obligation? Let me give an explanation that any simpleton can understand. The server is being killed, and along with it go the millions of hours players have spent, all the resources they ever gathered in that time, and the hundreds of thousands of coins they have bought with their money/time/loyalty to the server. The EASIEST thing to return to those players are the well-documented coins.

    So there is absolutely no way you can twist this into no moral obligation when the clearly right thing to do is return whatever Warmane can so those refugees can start somewhere anew with the only resource that's unequivocably simple to refund (unlike gold/items which don't translate well into another expansion and can ruin economies).

    And to be clear, yes we are losing something. The whole reason we spent the time and coins was that we wanted CATA characters. Also BIS items on CATA cost 28-32 coins. If you can't do the math, we are losing 20-40% of our coins if they simply give us a BIS WOTLK character. I don't know how that translates to MoP since I don't like pandas. Simple maths: 20-40% of coins = something.

    P.S. don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say I wouldn't use what's given. And don't presume to speak like you know what the "facts" are when you don't even understand the concept of moral obligation.

  6. Deathmastered your a douchebag thousands of players have invested their time and money on that server including me who has spent 200+hundred of hours grinding BIS for 10 chars now it may potentially get wiped away without any sort of fair compensation? "Morally" the right thing to do is make the transfers fair and just or refund most of our coins back so we can spent them on MOP or WOTLK...

  7. Then why did they restore the coins and points of all the players who lost everything after Moltdown? They sure as hell didn't "owe" anyone anything legally. Your argument holds zero water, both conceptually and empirically.

    Or perhaps you don't understand the meaning of moral obligation?
    I'll start by saying this doesn't mean we won't do anything. But, the "Moltdown" is/was a very different situation from the current situation.

  8. Can u start telling us what you're gonna do then? what's the plan with everything we asked on this thread

  9. I'll start by saying this doesn't mean we won't do anything. But, the "Moltdown" is/was a very different from the current situation.
    Of course. I've already accepted that anything that happens is at Warmane's prerogative.

    However, I only consider Moltdown different in terms of magnitude: it affected the entire server as opposed to one realm. But the end outcome is/was the same on the players' end: the realm is gone, along with your characters, efforts and any attached sentimental value to those things.

  10. When should be expect an update about the transffer or possible compensation system.
    Also for ppl that caped the amount of toons you can have on an account is there a possibilty of getting our toons transffered to anohter account?

  11. Of course. I've already accepted that anything that happens is at Warmane's prerogative.

    However, I only consider Moltdown different in terms of magnitude: it affected the entire server as opposed to one realm. But the end outcome is/was the same on the players' end: the realm is gone, along with your characters, efforts and any attached sentimental value to those things.
    It's not just a difference of magnitude. There's also the difference of potential loss of players vs. the current situation of the bulk Cataclysm players have already moved on to other realms or servers. If we didn't provide "compensation" for the "Moltdown", we probably would have lost more players than we did. Whereas in the current situation, we may lose 50 or 100 players. Then it is also a difference of sudden catastrophic failure vs. failure that happened long ago already. If we were not to compensate players here on this (again, not saying there won't be such a thing), how much would we lose compared to what we could have lost during the "Moltdown"?

  12. can u guys just fuking read what did Proterean said?

  13. It's not just a difference of magnitude. There's also the difference of potential loss of players vs. the current situation of the bulk Cataclysm players have already moved on to other realms or servers. If we didn't provide "compensation" for the "Moltdown", we probably would have lost more players than we did. Whereas in the current situation, we may lose 50 or 100 players. Then it is also a difference of sudden catastrophic failure vs. failure that happened long ago already. If we were not to compensate players here on this (again, not saying there won't be such a thing), how much would we lose compared to what we could have lost during the "Moltdown"?
    That sounds suspiciously like the definition of magnitude! :P

    You're right in all regards there. The value of Nelth players (hard to quantify without the server's data on how many accounts are still active) is much less than the entire server's. If we're talking purely from the server's self-interest perspective though (rather than the loss players have to go through individually), the value of compensation is hard to pin down. Not giving any compensation would definitely (as I said before) undermine the playerbase's sense of trust in the implicit relationship between donor/player and Warmane. I don't know where numbers like 50 or 100 come from, but proper compensation will definitely bring a hard-to-quantify amount of activity spilling over into the other realms. And demonstrating that the value of coins/effort will be honored by Warmane goes a long way to convince all supporters to continue donating because their support won't just go down the drain.

  14. That sounds suspiciously like the definition of magnitude! :P

    You're right in all regards there. The value of Nelth players (hard to quantify without the server's data on how many accounts are still active) is much less than the entire server's. If we're talking purely from the server's self-interest perspective though (rather than the loss players have to go through individually), the value of compensation is hard to pin down. Not giving any compensation would definitely (as I said before) undermine the playerbase's sense of trust in the implicit relationship between donor/player and Warmane. I don't know where numbers like 50 or 100 come from, but proper compensation will definitely bring a hard-to-quantify amount of activity spilling over into the other realms. And demonstrating that the value of coins/effort will be honored by Warmane goes a long way to convince all supporters to continue donating because their support won't just go down the drain.
    Exactly. Giving no compensation might only piss of those last 50-100 players because the others have moved along. But it's not about losing them, it's about bringing back players who might have moved over to other private servers, aswell as players who occasionally logged in reminicsing how much fun they had with their toons.

  15. we should be able to get a estimation on our toons and be able to exchange them for coins on other servers @rashyy 's idea sounds like a good idea

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