Hello, as I understood from many comments around here, unholy is for consistent AoE dps, frost is for better single target DPS.
What I wanted to ask is, why are there SO many players doing end-game content (icc/rs25hc) with unholy spec? Why would you want to sacrifice single target dps for aoe? Is it only for faster trash clears, VDW/DBS adds and LK valkyrs? Switching ret paladin's seal from vengeance to command is one thing, you waste 2 global cooldowns, but sacrificing a whole god damn spec!? That does not seem worth to me at all for end-game content, but since I see so many good players do it, I just assume I don't understand something. Could anyone please explain?
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Member
Unholy vs Frost
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Member
The single target dps gap isn't too big.
both specs are desirable because both bring essential raid buffs. There are lots of fdk players too.
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Member
What does UH DK bring to the raid that frost DK doesn't? And is that aoe dps increase for uh dks as small as single target dps increase for frost dks, or WAY bigger?
Comparatively (a key word), I'd say there are significantly more unholy DKs than frost ones. That's just my personal experience.
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Banned
http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=50510 a unique debuff for shadow priests.
Also UH is the only class that is able to spread the 13% increased magic dmg debuff on multiple targets for aoe purpose.Edited: July 27, 2018
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Member
That does make sense. Thank you. ^^
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Member
It's way bigger. Frost has basically non-existent "cleave" and the purposeful AoE of the spec is also very lackluster compared to Unholy.
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Banned
^this. Unholy does slightly less single-target DPS than Frost, but the utility and AoE DPS it offers significantly outweigh this. UDKs are the only ones that can spread the 13% reliably in AoE fights. Boomkins can only apply the debuff on the target they're currently focusing.
Frost's cleave is Howling Blast, which is procced for free from Rime, but with a very low chance and is very unreliable. Unholy's AoE is 100% controlled by the player and is far stronger on top of that.
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Member
IMHO frost is lackluster spec for ICC compared to unholy. @BiS the diff in single target is very small due to SMourne. @medium gear level the difference isn't that big as well due to frost needing arpen.
Then there's utility - spell dmg+ debuff (and AoE one, great for Valks @LK25 for example), optional desecration (AoE slow), disease damage+ debuff for spriests.
Then there's survivability - bone shield is awesome mitigation thing imo (I usually find myself at the very bottom of damage taken in recount).
AAAAND imho unholy is way better on the hardest heroic fights WotLK can offer - PP, Sindra, LK and Halion. That's the most important imho, I don't give a sh!t if there's frost DK pulling 1500 dps more on Saurfang, Rotface or Fester. 6,2k unholy DK will be of more use @LoD run or heroic Halion than BiS frost DK.
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Wind of Northrend
This person above me has no clue about Frost DK DPS. (His name is "Plejk)
Both Unholy and Frost have unique buffs and unique rotations.
From my pov, Frost is more fun, since its so punishing and rewarding in the same time, while Unholy is a chill spec.
As i said before, both are viable, try them, chose one.
P.S. Frost is better with less gear, anyone saying that Unholy does more DPS with lower GS doesnt know **** about FDK DPS.Edited: July 29, 2018
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Member
Do you know how to read?! Can you point out where I clearly state that unholy does more dps on lower ilvl?! I clearly state, that frost is superior on single target but the difference isn't that big on bis (due to mourne) or medium gear level (due to arpen scaling). WHERE DO I WRITE SOMETHING ABOUT LOWER GS PLEASE?!
Frost doesn't have unique buff. Imp icy talons can have DK tank while ebon plague is unique.
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Wind of Northrend
I never said that you did, but if you want to nitpick...
"@medium gear level the difference isn't that big as well due to frost needing arpen."
This statement is completely wrong.
The only reason Unholy gets close to Frost on Single Target DPS is one and only Shadowmourne.
Without SM, Frost is a LOT better.
Also, the only reason Frost isnt topping other single target DPS specs is since it doesnt have a huge burst CD like Death Wish, or Wings. Give a good FDK Hysteria and you will see what happens...
As for tanks, part from Bear beeing the better main tank, and Paladin better off tank, 90% of Blood dk tanks go for some magalaga spec like:
https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#j0EMqIhIcbobsoxhgZ0gh
(Or even worse, like going for "Might of Mograine")
So yes, Frost dk dps is needed in raids for both Raid buff and its DPS.
P.S. A good FDK will always top Shadowrealm Halion, and be high on LK and Ragings DMG on LoD, so idk what you are talking about...
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Member
Is Unholy better until you get the arp Softcap (with scorpion trinket) for Frost?
Atm i'm playing as Unholy (currently gearing up and starting icc normal, 5.3k gs) and im doing fine. But i want to play frost as soon as it overtakes unholy, but i only have ~ 350 arp atm. So how long should i wait until switching to frost? Softcap? or sooner
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Wind of Northrend
I started gearing another FDK like month ago...
Armory: "Aggramar".
I was doing fine with Strength gems at start, but, after i started getting ICC items i gemmed them with Arp, even tho i had barely 500 at first (since i didnt want to waste gold on regeming).
Strength gems are kinda better, untill u can reach 80-90% Arp with T10 2/5 bonus and with Sigil of Awareness.
But again, nothing of that will matter if u dont learn the rotation right and if u prio Frost Strike over Obliterate.
Have in mind that im in a good guild and that i know my ****, so getting in raids and getting gear is not a problem for me, if u pug, u might want to gem Strength right away, since god knows when will u get ur next item.
Also, i had A LOT of BoEs crafted when i started...
ToC chest and wrist, ICC legs and boots, trash neck and ring, Coined Havoc and DBW, since i got STS normal fro RS 25m... Im saying this so you dont go and try to copy paste me since i probably have better conditions than you.
All in all, try them both i guess.
They are both needed in raids equaly, get a two hander and two one handed weapons, get dual talent specialisation and try them both.
They can use the exact same gear with strength gems at start, just swap weps when u swap spec. See which one does more dps and go for it. Once u get more gear, test both again and go for that spec...
P.S. Frost is currently bugged from what i know.
Pestilence, while using Glyph of Disease, on single target wont refreah Icy Talons, and your dps will suffer by a lot cos of it.
Bug is reported and it will get fixed soon hopefully.
Untill than use the same Glyph and try to pestilence on 2+ targets whenever u can.
If there is only one target, simply use IT and PS to apply diseases and refresh Icy Talons.
Its a pain in the ***, you will do less dps, but its kinda fun since u have to think about things before you do them, and probably set them up while positioning or something... :D
Edit1:
Https://www.warmane.com/bugtracker/report/69364
This is the report if anyone is interested in the details.
Read the comments aswell.
Edit2:
It is fixed. Just checked it.
Glyph of Diseases and Icy Talons are working fine.Edited: July 30, 2018
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Forum Veteran
You want to play frost. Play frost. Amazing, right?
Nothing overtakes anything. 2 different specs, each needed in composition. I hope you understand how absurd is your question.
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Member
What is absurd about my question?
I like unholy, like a lot. And with a low gs you can just stack strength/tempo as much as you can.
You can do this with frost as well but as i said i like unholy.
But i like one thing more than unholy, and thats doing high dps.
Thats why i have a frost and an unholy specc. So currently im playing as unholy but i want to know at which point (and my first guess was at arp soft cap) frost overtakes unholy in single target fights by such a big margin that i want to make the change and take frost as my "main" specc.
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