1. Fighting ret-paladins

    Hey fellow warriors!

    I've been playing for a abit now on my warrior, about 1000 resillience rating and full pvp setup.

    Since i started, there have been 1 class, well 2 if you count the DK's but nobody can beat them 1v1, that i just cant win against no matter what.

    The retribution paladins just have so much going for them.
    - Full self heal
    - Long stun
    - High burst/damage output
    - CC/snare break
    - Fast mount speed

    Everytime i see a decent geared pvp paladin, i just know beforehand that i'm going to lose this fight.

    How do you guys deal with these bastards? Any recommendations/suggestions?

    Sincerly,
    Onepower

  2. You might a bit of advice here, but the truth is that there's nothing you can do against a geared retri who knows how to play.

  3. checked ur armory and your gear doesn't seem great, first off try getting ramaladni/wf axe. if its a 1v1 situation vs either dk or paladin the strategy is all the same: burst them down before they burst u. if you have an idea of what the ret your facing's playstyle is it will always vary, if he has no idea what the **** being defensive is then what you'll have to do is charge in, retaliation, mortal strike, rend if you're not taking much damage, enraged regen and storm immediately right after(if you've got enough rage to slip in a heroic strike right as you storm that'd be great too). if he wings before you storm and is outdpsing you, you might wanna go defensive and just pop everything, wall and block + disarm(yeah sounds terrible but with your gear you wouldn't be able to tank a decently geared ret without everything up) and once his cds are done and you're hopefully still alive, retaliation him and burst back. if he knows how to kite with 1h and shield properly and you waste all your charges, you're done. if he knows how to divine sac your burst you're also done.

  4. Warrior is one of worst classes in 1v1,while ret/DK are one of the best.There is nothing you can do to win vs this classes.Warrior shine where there is holy paladin behind him,you are not a solo class.
    Edited: August 18, 2018

  5. Warrior is one of worst classes in 1v1,while ret/DK are one of the best.There is nothing you can do to win vs this classes.Warrior shine where there is holy paladin behind him,you are not a solo class.
    This is correct answer in the threat. Im 10 years playing with only warrior class. And i have to say that against retry paladins (Equal gears) , DKs, Frost mages you have no chance. Im talking about both of side should be play as good with their class. Blizzard made all of classes with advantages and disadvantages against another classes. When you have pocket healer behind you, no one can stop you. But 1v1 you are not OP.

  6. This is correct answer in the threat. Im 10 years playing with only warrior class. And i have to say that against retry paladins (Equal gears) , DKs, Frost mages you have no chance. Im talking about both of side should be play as good with their class. Blizzard made all of classes with advantages and disadvantages against another classes. When you have pocket healer behind you, no one can stop you. But 1v1 you are not OP.
    "When you have pocket healer behind you, no one can stop you."
    this is not true as both dks and rets can do just as much if not more dps then arms can, matter of fact both classes out dps arms in pve by a good amount.pvp with a healer = the same. put a good healer on any dps and they can go ham thwe only thing that made arms good in wrath was op'ed pve gear and op'ed class like pallys keeping warriors alive and freedoms to stay on target.

    @the OP despite what the fan boys of wrath say the first 3/4ths of wrath was complete and total crap and gave wow the most broken and op'ed and unbalanced pvp in wow's history. the last patch "what you guys play on icecrown" was better but classes and pvp were still broken.

    look at what these guys are telling you now, as arms you cant beat dk pally ect because they are better period. pallys during TBC were balanced and before someone says lol ret a geared and well played ret can reck face in TBC but they were not super op'ed like in wrath. a dps spec like ret should not be able to match or better the dps of other classes while at the same time having a full heal , can heal themselves and others bubble freedoms stuns. one class can heal and has a ton of utility and the other cant and damage is = ... easy to see who wins thats right?same goes for dks... at one point during wrath rets could heal more then healing specs so whats the point of playing a healer....

    remember wrath is were most of the problems started in pvp and 2v2 got so bad they stopped giving rewards for it. at-least in TBC classes and pvp as a whole were much better balanced and yes before fan boys say thats not true remember what they are telling you now = you cant win cause warrior.in the tbc each class has a counter if everything is = like mage beats warrior but hunter rapes mage but anyhting else you had a chance to win and thats goes for all classes, that can not be said in wrath even more so the first 3/4ths of it as dks really had no counters. they have 1vs1 contests on icecrown or whatever and the same few classes win every time.

    as a warrior you need a healer to play so you are 2v1 other classes dont need that
    if you wanted to play melee during wrath you should have picked dk or pally wrath was all about dks and as a long time warrior player that played wrath on live i full well know that to be a fact. s5 warriors were so bad "worse class in game" blizz had to rework the class during the x-pac to make warrior playable again in both pve and pvp.
    Edited: August 27, 2018

  7. "When you have pocket healer behind you, no one can stop you."
    this is not true as both dks and rets can do just as much if not more dps then arms can, matter of fact both classes out dps arms in pve by a good amount.pvp
    Yes, because PvE damage determines the viability of a class in PvP, this is why sub rogues and frost mages are so unpopular and all warriors PvP as fury. The reason arms is better than ret or DK with a healer is because of the healing debuff, it makes their pressure against healers much better and harder to recover from. This pressure is why dispel cleave works with a warrior and not with a DK/ret.

  8. Yes, because PvE damage determines the viability of a class in PvP, this is why sub rogues and frost mages are so unpopular and all warriors PvP as fury. The reason arms is better than ret or DK with a healer is because of the healing debuff, it makes their pressure against healers much better and harder to recover from. This pressure is why dispel cleave works with a warrior and not with a DK/ret.
    no but damage is damge either way either hitting a boss or a player and they always say arms cant be top end for pve cause pvp, but that does not apply to every class.

    ret and dk can do the same or better damage then arms can in pvp and both do more in pve. ms kept arms wanted for pvp and it is good but its not liek dks cant kill healers......

    yes s5 was so broken warriors went fury for the season and did better then anything arms could do with or without ms. they buffed arms they had to to make it playable weird how that worked when arms had MS the entire time and was still crap and dks and rets were topping the charts in both pvp and pve, as dps and as tanks.

  9. ret and dk can do the same or better damage then arms can in pvp and both do more in pve. ms kept arms wanted for pvp and it is good but its not liek dks cant kill healers......
    Rets are at the disadvantage vs a healer because they only have a stun and burst damage. Death Knights have an interrupt, blanket silence and ghoul stun on top of their damage. Warriors have pummel and mortal strike on top of their damage. Gauging how good a spec is for pvp by their damage paints an incomplete picture.

    Hey fellow warriors!

    I've been playing for a abit now on my warrior, about 1000 resillience rating and full pvp setup.

    Since i started, there have been 1 class, well 2 if you count the DK's but nobody can beat them 1v1, that i just cant win against no matter what.

    The retribution paladins just have so much going for them.
    - Full self heal
    - Long stun
    - High burst/damage output
    - CC/snare break
    - Fast mount speed

    Everytime i see a decent geared pvp paladin, i just know beforehand that i'm going to lose this fight.

    How do you guys deal with these bastards? Any recommendations/suggestions?

    Sincerly,
    Onepower
    VS a good and geared Ret 1v1, you're probably going to lose. If you're against a noob Ret, then you have hope. Blow your CDs to force them to bubble, Shattering Throw that thing and pray they don't catch you with a Repentance while you're casting it. If you're successful at breaking the bubble, then it's a matter of killing them before they kill you.

  10. no but damage is damge either way either hitting a boss or a player and they always say arms cant be top end for pve cause pvp, but that does not apply to every class.

    ret and dk can do the same or better damage then arms can in pvp and both do more in pve. ms kept arms wanted for pvp and it is good but its not liek dks cant kill healers......
    What point are you even trying to make? You said DK/Ret are just better than Arms because they deal more damage in PvE, which is wrong. Fury warriors are literally #1 DPS in PvE but Arms is still miles ahead in PvP, even as one of the worst PvE DPS specs in the game. PvP is not just about damage, it's about how effectively you can kill people using your class kit. Rets in particular are a complete joke in higher level arena because of how easy it is to shut down their extremely telegraphed burst, which completely neuters their kill potential against good teams. Arms backed by a healer on the other hand is much harder to shut down as they do not rely on cooldowns as much and all of their damage is basically 50% more effective all the time.

    VS a good and geared Ret 1v1, you're probably going to lose. If you're against a noob Ret, then you have hope. Blow your CDs to force them to bubble, Shattering Throw that thing and pray they don't catch you with a Repentance while you're casting it. If you're successful at breaking the bubble, then it's a matter of killing them before they kill you.
    Or just press Berserker Rage before Shattering Throw.
    Edited: August 27, 2018

  11. What point are you even trying to make? You said DK/Ret are just better than Arms because they deal more damage in PvE, which is wrong. Fury warriors are literally #1 DPS in PvE but Arms is still miles ahead in PvP, even as one of the worst PvE DPS specs in the game. PvP is not just about damage, it's about how effectively you can kill people using your class kit. Rets in particular are a complete joke in higher level arena because of how easy it is to shut down their extremely telegraphed burst, which completely neuters their kill potential against good teams. Arms backed by a healer on the other hand is much harder to shut down as they do not rely on cooldowns as much and all of their damage is basically 50% more effective all the time.



    Or just press Berserker Rage before Shattering Throw.
    whats my point?the point is as an arms warrior your not beating and good ret or dk 1v1 becasue of bad balance and bad class design that came in wrath.

    "You said DK/Ret are just better than Arms because they deal more damage in PvE, which is wrong. Fury warriors are literally #1 DPS in PvE but Arms is still miles ahead in PvP, even as one of the worst PvE DPS specs in the game."

    really? dk's and rets do deal more damage in pve then arms the 2 specs are just better then arms is arms is not allowed to be top end in pve cause of pvp but that only applies to arms,weird right?think im wrong?take a look at dps logs all threw wrath and its pretty to see how far behind warriors were for 3/4ths of the x pac in all aspects of game play.

    you can talk about fury being arguably the best "and thats open for debate" pve dps spec at end game but fury is not arms and arms is no where near top dps for pve,but both rets and dks 3 specs are.

    again your on the MS thing and like i said MS is great but its not a must nor is it the end all be all talent. did arms have ms during s5 in wrath = yes was arms and warriors over the worse class in game in both pvp and pve = yes. why?dks and rests were face rolling but lacked a 50% ms?hmm weird.warriors got "good" after some major buffs and class changes during the x-pac something blizz says they never do unless its a must.
    agin why were rets and dks recking face and wars sucked even more so during s5?i can tell you it was not from a lack of MS.

    high end arena?no one is shutting down a great player no matter what they play but i do agree some what with what you said about ret. ret is a face roll 3 button spec as are pallys as a whole during wrath many played them with ease to high rating but good player could shut them down if they are better. remember rets out healing healers?remember that dumb *** prot/holy spec that took forever to kill and it uses two buttons?yeah good class balance.

    again op'ed asked why he could not win 1vs1 against rets and i gave him an answer its not my fault many choose or do not remember how bad wrath was other then the last patch. give a support/dps spec like ret top end burst top end utility high ends heals bubbles freedoms and stuns and its easy to see why they were so op'ed and why class balanced sucked. same goes for dks you cant win a 1v1 against them no matter what army of the dead times 5 in arena, resing an ally as a ghoul lmfao.
    Edited: August 27, 2018

  12. whats my point?the point is as an arms warrior your not beating and good ret or dk 1v1 becasue of bad balance and bad class design that came in wrath.

    "You said DK/Ret are just better than Arms because they deal more damage in PvE, which is wrong. Fury warriors are literally #1 DPS in PvE but Arms is still miles ahead in PvP, even as one of the worst PvE DPS specs in the game."

    really? dk's and rets do deal more damage in pve then arms the 2 specs are just better then arms is arms is not allowed to be top end in pve cause of pvp but that only applies to arms,weird right?think im wrong?take a look at dps logs all threw wrath and its pretty to see how far behind warriors were for 3/4ths of the x pac in all aspects of game play.
    How are you so good at consistently missing the point? Damage in PvE =/= pressure in PvP. Arms has much better pressure on healers than Ret/Unholy and that's why it's better in solo DPS comps. I don't know why you keep mentioning past patches, they're not relevant to this server or anything that is being talked about in this thread.

    you can talk about fury being arguably the best "and thats open for debate" pve dps spec at end game but fury is not arms and arms is no where near top dps for pve,but both rets and dks 3 specs are.
    That was my point. I literally said Arms is one of the worst PvE specs in the game and yet it's miles better than Fury in PvP, proving that damage in PvE =/= pressure in PvP. Again, no idea what you're even trying to prove here. Neither Unholy nor Blood are top DPS btw.

    again your on the MS thing and like i said MS is great but its not a must nor is it the end all be all talent. did arms have ms during s5 in wrath = yes was arms and warriors over the worse class in game in both pvp and pve = yes. why?dks and rests were face rolling but lacked a 50% ms?hmm weird.warriors got "good" after some major buffs and class changes during the x-pac something blizz says they never do unless its a must.
    agin why were rets and dks recking face and wars sucked even more so during s5?i can tell you it was not from a lack of MS.
    Wait, are you telling me warriors scale with gear better than other classes, start out weak and then become top dog by the end of the expansion, exactly like vanilla and BC? No way, my dude. You just blew my mind. In other news, I still have no idea why you're talking about other patches. You realize this thread is about patch 3.3.5 and all other patches are irrelevant, right?

    again again op'ed asked why he could not win 1vs1 against rets and i gave him an answer its not my fault many choose or do not remember how bad wrath was other then the last patch. give a support/dps spec like ret top end burst top end utility high ends heals bubbles freedoms and stuns and its easy to see why they were so op'ed and why class balanced sucked. same goes for dks you cant win a 1v1 against them no matter what army of the dead times 5 in arena, resing an ally as a ghoul lmfao.
    You responded to LegendRauf, who rightfully pointed out that warriors become much better with a healer and then you claimed that wasn't true because Rets/DKs become even better than warriors with a healer because they do more damage in PvE, which made absolutely no sense. At this point, I step in and explain to you why what you said makes no sense and that the guy you replied to was correct. And now here you are, gibbering about previous patches for whatever reason. Do you even know where you are? You wanna lie down and rest a bit?

  13. How are you so good at consistently missing the point? Damage in PvE =/= pressure in PvP. Arms has much better pressure on healers than Ret/Unholy and that's why it's better in solo DPS comps. I don't know why you keep mentioning past patches, they're not relevant to this server or anything that is being talked about in this thread.



    That was my point. I literally said Arms is one of the worst PvE specs in the game and yet it's miles better than Fury in PvP, proving that damage in PvE =/= pressure in PvP. Again, no idea what you're even trying to prove here. Neither Unholy nor Blood are top DPS btw.



    Wait, are you telling me warriors scale with gear better than other classes, start out weak and then become top dog by the end of the expansion, exactly like vanilla and BC? No way, my dude. You just blew my mind. In other news, I still have no idea why you're talking about other patches. You realize this thread is about patch 3.3.5 and all other patches are irrelevant, right?



    You responded to LegendRauf, who rightfully pointed out that warriors become much better with a healer and then you claimed that wasn't true because Rets/DKs become even better than warriors with a healer because they do more damage in PvE, which made absolutely no sense. At this point, I step in and explain to you why what you said makes no sense and that the guy you replied to was correct. And now here you are, gibbering about previous patches for whatever reason. Do you even know where you are? You wanna lie down and rest a bit?
    tell me what class does not get better with a healer?everyone does!
    tell me why warriors sucked in both pvp and pve for 3/4ths of wrath?
    tell me why arms was so broken in s5 they had to hot fix mid x-pac the warrior class?
    arms had ms during s5 right?but we lacked what?
    every patch matters in wrath beacsue its part of the x-pac and its what leads to the last patch.

    arms never had any pressure on healers until later in the x-pac but at the same time rets and dks were topping charts in pvp and pve.
    nothing about warriors in wrath is really op'ed what is op'ed in pve gear and the clasees warrior run with pallys and dks in 2v2 or tsg in 3v3.

    fury is worse then arms in pvp do to the talent trees its as simple as that not just becasue of damage.
    both ret and dks do more damage in pve then arms do correct?but rets and dks have so much self healing stuns range snares bubbles and the like,why?thats is why warriors suck compared to dks and rets and we can call damage = across all 3 but its really not as rets and dks did more damage all threw wrath.one class "warrior" lacks any type of tools to compete with rets and dks while the other two are what blizz called one man armies. warriors can't have the same and again thats bad class balance.

    this goes back to what the op said why cant i beat a ret = your class warrior was crap compared tot he rest. how rets were in tbc is balanced and how support specs should play.

    rage scaling?yeah warriors use to scale better but blizz still had to fix the class cause they were so bad in wrath. hey remember when dks could play like a lock and cast dots from range and watch the target die?that was balanced right?ontop of all the self healing they could do....

    again every patch in wrath lead to the current/last patch want to see why a class or spec is that or that then look at the whole x-pac. warriors cant beat a ret in wrath cause pallys were op'ed and warriors were neglected. TBC was different right?so what changed?wrath came and dks and pallys were made and redone and became faceroll = bad class balance and design. thats why warriors cant touch them because warriors were lef to rot.

    everything else about warriors vs ret dks was just to give more example of how bad things were in wrath. like how both dks and pallys were better tanks both did better dps in pve then warriors did ad this was 100% true until end game and then ONLY fury could compete. both dks and pallys were better in pvp then warriors were all threw wrath but by end game warriors after major buffs got a role as MS bots mostly in 2v2 backed by a pally lol.

    yes i know warriors "are good" with a healer but so are other classes but other classes are much better solo then warriors are. thats most peoples excuse for warriors being poor solo = o they are great with a healer well everyone is.i seen dks and pallys 2 shot people in arena, i seen dks cc a warrior from range and kill him with dots.i seen pallys stun someone then heal back up to full before the stun wears off.this is not rock paper scissor this is op'ed class's vs a weak one.if warriors were as good as everyone says they are with a healer they would never lose an arena match and would win every blizz con, but that was not the case in wrath now was it?
    Edited: August 28, 2018

  14. @Butkus First of all stop talking about other seasons we don't care about that.The season we have on warmane is s8 so stick with this one please.

    Just because some specs do more damage in PVE don't mean they are viable in PVP.You don't have 100% uptime in PVP,you also looking at other factors as CC,Debuffs,dispells and so on.In case of Arms vs Fury the healing debuff and the fact bladestorm make you immune to CC are huge advantages.Non of this is in any use in PVE but can be game changing in PVP.

    yes you are correct all classes are stronger with healer on their back,but some classes benefit more then others.Ret paladin have selfheals,dispells,freedom,babble,can remove stuns...they are doing fine w/o healer.


    Warrior on other hand on its own have no selfsustain at all,cant remove any CC and can be super easy kited.Its very obvious which class benefit more with healer on its back.Warriors are also most represent class on high rating teams,how can you argue they are not monsters with healer supporting them?

    Also Warrior actually did win Blizzcon in 2009,which was not even s8.You know what class we never saw in Blizzcon?Ret paladin,i wonder why.....
    Edited: August 28, 2018

  15. @Butkus First of all stop talking about other seasons we don't care about that.The season we have on warmane is s8 so stick with this one please.

    Just because some specs do more damage in PVE don't mean they are viable in PVP.You don't have 100% uptime in PVP,you also looking at other factors as CC,Debuffs,dispells and so on.In case of Arms vs Fury the healing debuff and the fact bladestorm make you immune to CC are huge advantages.Non of this is in any use in PVE but can be game changing in PVP.

    yes you are correct all classes are stronger with healer on their back,but some classes benefit more then others.Ret paladin have selfheals,dispells,freedom,babble,can remove stuns...they are doing fine w/o healer.


    Warrior on other hand on its own have no selfsustain at all,cant remove any CC and can be super easy kited.Its very obvious which class benefit more with healer on its back.Warriors are also most represent class on high rating teams,how can you argue they are not monsters with healer supporting them?

    Also Warrior actually did win Blizzcon in 2009,which was not even s8.You know what class we never saw in Blizzcon?Ret paladin,i wonder why.....
    you might not care about other parts or wrath but i do beacsue it was a bigger part of the game then just the last patch, i know i played it live.warrior won blizzon but not in season 8 you say right?i can also say it was not season 5 and we all know up until wrath arms/warrior were the go to spec so you have MANY elite level skilled players that played a warrior like reckful "yes he played war and rogue" and guys like hoodrych. sad part is most re rolled to dks during wrath cause they were so op'ed others went pally. i really hope your not trying to say dk and pally were lacking from arena?noob friendly classes are just that.

    i agree some class benefit more from a healer then others and this is do to piss poor class design, example dk and pallys have all the stuff you named yet warriors dont. warrior vs ret in TBC? my $ is on the warrior warrior vs ret in wrath?= ret and its not even close = bad class balance and design.

    "Warriors are also most represent class on high rating teams"
    if you mean right now on icecrown in 2v2 i would say i agree but what class is healing the warrior?pallys usually correct?pallys are top end healers top end dps and better tanks.....again take a look from wrath day 1 until the last patch if you want to see why warriors "got good". s5 warriors sucked right?worse class in game and guess what?warrior/arms still sucked with a healer you could take a ret or dk in 2v2 and they would destroy arms with a healer. so arms sucked with a healer its sucked in pve as did firy and warrior tanks also were not wanted so what do they do for warriors?

    they had to change the class mid x-pac chnage how things work give them damage buffs added new talents so they could carve out a roll for warriors and that roll ended up being MS bots in 2v2 for the most part.like i said look at s5 warriors sucked with or without healers and another class could do 10x better with a healer this is not made up its a fact. warriors in classic or TBC are really not and easy target to kill 1v1 with gear and skill being somewhat = but all of a sudden wrath comes and boom warriors "and many others" are getting crapped on by dks and pallys. like i said bad class design they gave to much to dks and pallys and made them to op'ed thats why they got nerfed every season.this is also why warriors cant beat ret anymore or a dk = bad design.

    again this is not rock paper siccor like we seen so much in classic or TBC were mage kills warrior but hunter rapes mage. pallys and dks during wrath were just killing everyone and everything "dks were even more op'ed". 5 dks in 5v5 all pop army of dead and lol to a win rets healing more then healing specs ... yeah good balance/design.

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