But the bgs will still be RANDOM even if they get divided by gear. As i said above, the name says random BATTLEGROUND not random TEAM. So even if you make geared vs geared, you could still enter a random bg or you could queue a specific bg.
-
Member
-
Member
Why not?The other guy have spend few months gearing up so he is few months ahead of you in terms of progression so he is way stronger then you,why shouldn't you be match with him?Just because you start the game last week you should be protected in PVP?How is that making any sense at all in MMORPG game where progression is the main thing?
Can you guys point out 1 single MMORPG game where PVP matchmaking is base around gear?I cant think of single one.
and then we have the problem with people removing some gear to lower their GS before queue for RBG,how are you gonna fix that?Edited: August 27, 2018
-
Member
I don't feel anxiety on bgs, not feeling angry when losing, not feeling happy when win, I should feel on a competitive game, I feel this I feel that I feel X, I don't feel Y blabla that's basically you with your presonal tastes, and you want to make it sounds like if it counts for the entire community, nothing more. Me, own perspective? You're wrong, I'm trying to speak as a whole. Not everyone has the same tastes or feelings as you in the first place.
In a PvP scenario, no matter who no matter where, there's competition already. Some players prefer the competition and arena, some others in bgs, especially when playing a prem vs prem, or guild vs guild, desn't matter, your call. Even in world PvP outside you have these kinds of competitions, orgrimmar / stormwind raids, WG quests, K3, Sholazar camp, Gadgetzan, those are just examples.
If you don't like the quality on those that's fine but don't say there's no competition on them because there is and that's a fact. People fight agaisnt each other, or it's a hugs and cuddles fest that perhaps I'm the only person who didn't know about it?
Hey, you know what? I play solo too. I queue solo all the freaking time. Since from vanilla retail 'till now. Anyhow, I have no clue if most play in solo queue or in group, it's impossible to say from my own perspective only, but in fact I meet every kind everyday, tons of pugs with me and agaisnt me, and tons of premades with me and agaisnt me (most of prems I play with queue as 5man max so pretty much normal that I meet 'em too).
Lastly, it's not about thinking bgs are competitive, it's about people being able to make it competitive and not having the patience for it so they automatically say there's no competition, like... Come on, give me a break...
-
Member
Overall pvp quality is quite trashy.
You farm enemies on graveyard or you get farmed.
It's enough to win first fight and half of the battleground will leave when starts losing.
-
Forum Veteran
random bg's are both random in the fact that you get a random battleground and a random team. as i said above warmane have 0 desire to change that.
-
Member
Do you honestly think posts where you take quotes out of context and then swear at people have any value what so ever? Thats just trolly nonsense and is merely a showcase of your laughable level of intelligence and incredibly apparent lack of maturity.
I dont agree with the stance that random bgs simply cant be competitive merely because there is no real ranking system in play. And just because the reward for winning instead of losing isn't that significant, it doesn't cancel out their potential to be competitive either. People with bis play to win and people without bis play to gear (which is faster when you win). Both have adequate motivation to play to win or they presumably wouldn't queue to begin with.
That being said, some kind of ranking system (and/or better reward system), certainly wouldn't be a bad tool to increase the overall competitive nature of random bgs. However I feel they would unfortunately merely highlight the existing problems. The biggest problem of which was of course the basis of this thread itself. Gear differentials.
Random bgs on retail wrath were entirely different and were much more often competitive. But on retail nobody had bis characters. The average gs and also skill level were always much more comparable, and realms typically had good faction balance (null point now that i think about it since battlegroups, but hey i forgot about those, it was a long time ago). But how exactly can you make random bgs have some kind of match making system that promotes these qualities?
The obvious answer is of course put low gs against low gs and high gs against high gs. The problems with this simple solution is that faction balance is quite terrible on this server (or atleast when it comes to bgs anyway) and ally would most definitely end up with illogical queue times. Besides, GS value is quite often not indicative of skill level. You could circumvent the gear problem atleast with a tenacity type buff applied to the team deemed to have lower gs, but if that was implemented you would need a full proof way of determining the teams overall gs.
This system could be abused very easily, and even if it is sophisticated enough to not go off of equipped gear at the time of queuing or entering the bg, peoples gear sets for pvp and pve can be quite different. People could even theoretically have items in their bags they would never use that would artificially inflate their determined gs value. It would also need to take into account gear in peoples banks as they could hide it there and access it with jeeves. people could even employ mailbox cheese with boes and use portable mailbox. The system would have to be dynamic with people changing gear, which will never happen.
I suppose you could make it so it goes off of the gear you had equipped when you clicked enter, and then make it so you cant change gear inside bgs...However this would be once again a very sophisticated system that would take a huge amount of work to create and employ, and would create other problems also. And besides, that can also be abused. people could queue 2 different characters on dif accounts, one naked and one full bis to make the tenacity unrealistic and useless. it could even theoretically do more harm than good.
Not too mention it would deter donating for gear. If bgs were balanced through an advanced system and low gs teams had a chance against high gs teams, what purpose do bg heros have to donate? What purpose is there to even build your pvp set up in general if you're a bg hero?Edited: August 29, 2018
-
Moderator
You people seem to be confusing (or mingling) "can" and "is." A match of tic-tac-toe can be competitive if both participants are that invested in it, but it isn't inherently so. The same principle goes for Random Battlegrounds: there is a (usually small) possibility that both sides will have players of comparable gear, comparable experience and comparable interest and investment for one match to be competitive, but by its own random nature that's more a case of "exception that proves the rule" than something to be expected. Most people who take part in them just see them as a step on the way to get geared, be it for further PvE or for competitive Arena, or for some casual fun. Isn't introducing an actual competitive aspect for Battlegrounds the reason they created the Rated ones later, after all?
"BG Heroes"? Do you actually know anyone who used coins for the sole purpose of doing Battlegrounds or are you just trying to do a new variation of "Warmane won't do it cuz munnys" as a way to remain in denial of the fact that there's nothing to be "fixed," that the only issue is with players not liking something working as it's supposed to?
-
Member
For me is was more than enough, not lacking anything at all
Anyway about "random bg" term, the word "random" refers to battlegrounds only, because even when you queue for a especific bg you will still get random players, unless you queue with a group, which will still be random on the other side, and still random in your side unless your grp is full...
-
Member
As Drkwispurr said above, and i'll quote "the word "random" refers to battlegrounds only, because even when you queue for a especific bg you will still get random players".
And regarding the desire to change, that may be true (for now) but look at all the new things. Maybe someday this will be implemented.
We aren't talking about warmane not wanting or wanting to do this, we are giving arguments for why they should do this. Whether they take into consideration the arguments or not, that's another thing. Lets be honest here, it would be better to have fights "random" bgs matched by gear.
-
Moderator
This was suggested and denied before, as has been pointed out. This thread only exists as a "thought experiment." The moment people try to turn it into more than that, it will be gone as a denied suggestion.
-
Member
But wouldn't they get gear faster if they were paired with people their own gear ? If you encounter the same gearless team over and over, how many honor points can you get and how many items can you get by losing every bg because your team was undergeared (4k and 3kgs) and the other team wasn't even 6k but had 5.5 or smth like that ?
I've been in enough bgs to see an entire day wasted because my team members were gearless while the other team had 5.5k+. Where's the fun in that ? I have chars on both sides and right now, all i can say is :
OH THE HORRORS OF PLAYING ON HORDE SIDE (few months ago it was the alliance side who had it horrible in bgs because of lowbies).
Is that what "casual" fun is ? To waste an entire day ? And lets be honest here, most people who play for "casual fun" don't farm bgs so if they get one item per day that's awesome. So how long does it take a "casual fun" player to reach 5k gs by joining lowbies vs geared players ? One week ? Two weeks ?
Now if the "casual fun" player started to fight people his own gear, he would see more wins because in this case, the most skilled team would win. Maybe his lowbie team is really good but what can his team do vs a 6k gs character who casts one attack and kills his entire team ? Sure, the lowbie team may get a kill on the 6k gs but how many of them will die in the process ? Now add a second 6k gs who is helping the first one . Hello darkness my old friend ....
-
Moderator
You're asking someone who loathes PvP? To me all of it is a waste of time - rated, competitive, steamroll, casual or whatever the case, for an hour, a day, a week or six months. The only point I care about in the matter is that the mechanics are working as intended for Random Battlegrounds and the expansion, and that custom tweaks for something meant to be a hodge-podge of players of all levels of gear and experience aren't incoming.
-
Member
Wow overly defensive much? Chill out. I was advocating this point as an actual concern. I would imagine if there was a system in place to normalize overall gear in bgs, yeah donations probably would go down. possibly not by much, but by a marginal degree in the least.
Not sure why you're even posting in this thread after openly admitting you "loathe pvp". Obviously someone like you who thinks pvp is a waste of time wouldnt care about bgs actually being competitive. You clearly have little to add to this thread aside from your apparent negativity.
But anyway, new thought.
You could add a npc that allows you to completely turn off your honor gain, but you can only do it if you have the highest gs you could get from honor and wintergrasp items, and it costs 500g whenever you turn it on and off. You then only face people who have also turned off their honor gain in bgs. obviously this would be like a "level cap twink bracket" if you will with no rewards since honor is turned off, fostering an environment for people who want to be competitive in bgs.
Unfortunately alliance would still get long queues and it would have to be marketed well I suppose.Edited: August 29, 2018
-
Moderator
If you label "calling out bull****" as "being defensive," have a blast at it. People who donate for PvP do it for what PvPers themselves consider "real PvP," which is Arenas. They might go do Battlegrounds in their spare time as well, sure, but don't delude yourself into believing Battlegrounds are kept the way they are meant to be because of the effect they have on donations.
I have enough to add: I have the perspective of Battlegrounds having no inherent competitivity to them outside of Rated ones. But I guess facts are "negativity" when they demolish someone's narrative.
-
Member
How exactly do you know anything about "real pvpers" or what they donate for. Do you track what people do immediately after they donate for pvp gear now? You just assume people donate only for arena when in reality you know nothing. You're just on the defensive because I implied you wouldn't do it because it would reduce donations. Which regardless of what you are saying will always be a consideration for the design ideas on this server, and everybody knows that fact.
They have no inherit competivity outside of rated ones because of their current state of affairs. It is never a balanced fight. and what do rated bgs have to do with this? there are no rated bgs on the wrath server. thats the problem to begin with.
Quote
