1. So, Medivh was supposed to be a "Challenging hardcore raid content." whereas no such statement was made for Outland;
    https://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=354453

    As it currently stands 4 guilds have downed what is supposed to be a simple gear check that killed guilds that had not farmed BT enough;
    http://armory.warmane.com/pveladder/...well/Brutallus

    of these; 3 has released videos of them clearly class stacking in order to take down Brutallus;
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc9ZxFvnk9U - Panacea
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruK4cD6ajxM - Promise
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=715ffwJOwV4 - Murlock Shop

    Let us take some retail Videos;
    SK Gaming - 2 tanks - [s]6[/s]7+ Healers - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gAQjX1oK6E
    Nihilium - 2 tanks - 7(!) Healers - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPxPxEA8kJ8
    Eternal gathering - 2 tanks - 5+ Healers (bad PoV) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfY032hfEGI
    Adrastus3 - 2 tanks - 5+ Healers (bad PoV) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwY_x0griio

    Now, what's the deal with Outland, first we heard bragging of it being supposed to be retail like with a hardcore server being released later on,
    that server died, and now what is supposed to be a gearcheck to force people into BT so that they cant jump from t5/BoJ into Sunwell,
    has become either
    1) Bring only classes that can deal 2.1k dps sustained on average* and stack DPS classes or
    2) Farm BiS BT gear before venturing into SWP to even have a chance with a retail like setup with 6+ healers.

    *) Legacylogs Panacea kill 43k raid dps https://legacyplayers.com/Raids/View...?id=3447&exp=1


    So what's the deal with Outland, is it retail like or a funserver with overtuned bosses?
    Is the server being Migrated into Loaderon 2.0 with 2x health on bosses and 2x boss damage?
    This is 100% accurate, having to rely on having 9 to 10 BIS lock/hunter with their support class, buff from OUTSIDE of the 25 people in the raid (Supplementary blessing, IDS... etc), the usage of 20m CD like Fire elementals and finally having crazy luck on burns.

    It is what you can call, OVERTUNE

  2. You're mad 3 players got benched? Here's some news for you - most guilds killing this boss are benching at least 10 players. Are you mad about that? Those people will get in on the kill next week or the week after.

    Here's some more news for you - nobody gives a **** about outside classes buffing, it's blizzlike. At least two of those pally buffs came from alts of people playing their mains IN the fight. Mad about that? Tough, that's what happens on a server with increased rates. People have tons of 70 alts.

    Lets not even mention that's a guild beating the enrage with no class stacking, without a single glaive, and they don't even use the cash shop.

    This thread has been completely discredited. It sounds like you're a mad 2nd string holy paladin who doesn't want to sit on the bench for a guild first kill. Sorry, that's just how TBC is. Buff your guild like a good boy, and watch the attempts on stream so you know what to do when it's you're turn.
    Ya know, I do hope those '10' players just up and leave you for greener pastures while you stack warlocks and hunters for your kills. Have fun with recruitment, it's a wondrous cycle here on Warmane, and only gets harder as you continue to progress in the instance.

    And yes, people should care about outside class buffing...since again reading comprehension is hard I'll say it again:

    Again, the argument isn't against the act itself. But the fact that you now have benched 3 potential players because the buffs they bring which are quite powerful and affect the entire composition of the raid, don't outweigh the DPS/ HPS another class can do if they have that spot instead, to meet warmane's expectations of a harder challenge then retail.
    If you knew how this game works,. you would know that 1 buff for x amount times the number of players that get it for attack power for all of your melee, hunters and tanks, 10% all stats and 41 MP5 has a greater impact to DPS / TPS / HPS and then any single weapon or other piece of gear has from any instance.

    Math is hard.

    Who cares if you didn't use the cash shop, or don't have glaves when you're getting boosted along by players who are sitting outside looking pretty for you. Take away those buffs and I'm quite sure you couldn't do it. Otherwise blizzard wouldn't have duplicated and consolidated so many things for WotLK.

    Go on. Prove me wrong. Do it without it. Then I would agree with you in calling the instanced 'tuned' appropriately.
    Edited: September 9, 2018

  3. do it for yourself, stop be a ***** that crying about game.

  4. Ya know, I do hope those '10' players just up and leave you for greener pastures while you stack warlocks and hunters for your kills. Have fun with recruitment, it's a wondrous cycle here on Warmane, and only gets harder as you continue to progress in the instance.
    There are no greener pastures. That's why these are the "top" guilds. I get 10 tells every day that I have to turn down (and I don't feel good about it), and I don't even spam a recruitment message. Probably from people in guilds like yours.

    And yes, people should care about outside class buffing...since again reading comprehension is hard I'll say it again:
    Nah they don't and you don't have to explain yourself further because you're wrong and ignorant about everything you've spoken about thus far. Nobody has to prove they can do it without outside pally buffs, because those are a part of the game and there's no reason they shouldn't be used.

    If this fight could be done without outside pally buffs, then every guild would still be using them, and this boss would be easy. Are you able to comprehend that concept?

    This is 100% accurate, having to rely on having 9 to 10 BIS lock/hunter with their support class, buff from OUTSIDE of the 25 people in the raid (Supplementary blessing, IDS... etc), the usage of 20m CD like Fire elementals and finally having crazy luck on burns.

    It is what you can call, OVERTUNE
    Another guy with no clue. You don't need to get lucky with burns, you don't need fire eles to beat the enrage. And 3 hunters and 4 locks is not class stacking. How many players of each class is a guild allowed to bring into a raid Izarno? Tell me please. Inquiring minds want to know.
    Edited: September 9, 2018

  5. spraynard, i read your posts on the thread, you are not inquiring anything, your mind is as narrow as it can be, but keep barking no worry.

  6. spraynard, i read your posts on the thread, you are not inquiring anything, your mind is as narrow as it can be, but keep barking no worry.
    Our guild is killing bosses in sunwell. What does he need to prove in his posts? Nothing. This entire thread is just a bunch of people complaining about very blizzlike practices with no clue about Progression raiding or being a top guild. There is no imaginary standard for “what guilds should do” with their raid comps. You can run 15 hunters 5 tanks and 5 healers if it works for you, it doesn’t matter. The class imbalances are a part of this expansion designed by blizzard entertainment. Sure things aren’t perfect here on Outland, but they are not scripted poorly and every class is where they were on retail tbc at the same point.

    So what’s the deal then? You guys watched a couple kill videos and saw a few too many players for certain classes in your opinion and now it’s time to post up a huge thread complaining that there is class imbalance? You don’t have to class stack to beat any encounters in sunwell right now. There is no mandatory standard for raid compositions. Raid leaders are selecting the comps they want to run, it’s all player decision.

    You cannot do anything about players making their own decisions. There is no way to “fix” what isn’t even a problem. Run the comp that works. Adapt or die.

  7. If you knew how this game works,. you would know that 1 buff for x amount times the number of players that get it for attack power for all of your melee, hunters and tanks, 10% all stats and 41 MP5 has a greater impact to DPS / TPS / HPS and then any single weapon or other piece of gear has from any instance.
    Sure let's look at that for a second. The healers only need 2 buffs, kings and wisdom, so you can automatically take out HPS out of that equation.
    The tanks only need two buffs really, that's might and kings, so you can take "TPS" out of that equation too.
    So the question is how much would that effect the dps?

    For caster dps:
    Warlocks will gain 2460 mana from wisdom across the entirety of brutallus which is less than 2 life taps worth, not insignificant but certainly not gamebreaking.
    Mage is in the spriest group along with a elemental shaman, so this is basically irrelevant for them unless you want to complain about group composition too.
    The boomkin innervates himself.
    Spriest doesn't have mana issues on a fight this short and no mutli dotting.
    All and all the only person who will hurt from losing wisdom is the ele shaman in the lock group who needs to mana pot one time instead of destro pot.

    For Melee dps:
    Hunters and rogues don't actually NEED salvation.
    So the people that really get affected are: arms warrior, two enhance shamans and a ret paladin.
    4 people lose a significant buff of kings.

    /shrug, you tell me whether or not that's required to kill the boss.

    Also apparently not enough people have made this clear to you (they have) but the people buffing outside are predominantly alts whose mains are inside the raid. Not sure why you keep ignoring that lmao.

  8. Sure let's look at that for a second. The healers only need 2 buffs, kings and wisdom, so you can automatically take out HPS out of that equation.
    The tanks only need two buffs really, that's might and kings, so you can take "TPS" out of that equation too.
    So the question is how much would that effect the dps?

    For caster dps:
    Warlocks will gain 2460 mana from wisdom across the entirety of brutallus which is less than 2 life taps worth, not insignificant but certainly not gamebreaking.
    Mage is in the spriest group along with a elemental shaman, so this is basically irrelevant for them unless you want to complain about group composition too.
    The boomkin innervates himself.
    Spriest doesn't have mana issues on a fight this short and no mutli dotting.
    All and all the only person who will hurt from losing wisdom is the ele shaman in the lock group who needs to mana pot one time instead of destro pot.

    For Melee dps:
    Hunters and rogues don't actually NEED salvation.
    So the people that really get affected are: arms warrior, two enhance shamans and a ret paladin.
    4 people lose a significant buff of kings.

    /shrug, you tell me whether or not that's required to kill the boss.

    Also apparently not enough people have made this clear to you (they have) but the people buffing outside are predominantly alts whose mains are inside the raid. Not sure why you keep ignoring that lmao.
    I dont want to enter in story is it overtuned or not, but your story is so shallow. Tanks do need 3 buffs, you forgoting light? Salvation is nice for heals also. Story about dps and buffs is hilarious., mages and spriests dont need wisdom?? Boomkin innervates himself? You ever played boomkin? Only thing i agree is warlock and life taps, but it is still their dmg increase also (not wasting 2 gcd and heals mana). You forgot to mention disc priests also..

  9. I dont want to enter in story is it overtuned or not, but your story is so shallow. Tanks do need 3 buffs, you forgoting light? Salvation is nice for heals also. Story about dps and buffs is hilarious., mages and spriests dont need wisdom?? Boomkin innervates himself? You ever played boomkin? Only thing i agree is warlock and life taps, but it is still their dmg increase also (not wasting 2 gcd and heals mana). You forgot to mention disc priests also..
    - Our strat doesn't use a hpally to heal the tanks on brutallus, irrelevant
    - either way light isn't necessary so it's a moot point
    - salvation for healers on brutallus? we're going to pull aggro healing now are we? omegalol
    wisdom only adds 2.5k mana for the entire fight for all those classes as calculated before, which again, isn't insignificant but it's one mana pot vs one destro pot
    that does not make or break the boss :)

    comedy gold

  10. 10 guilds already killed Brutallus within 2 resets, to me it seems that Warmane actually hit the sweet spot in terms of tuning the boss. Not sure what all the crying is about.

  11. - Our strat doesn't use a hpally to heal the tanks on brutallus, irrelevant
    - either way light isn't necessary so it's a moot point
    - salvation for healers on brutallus? we're going to pull aggro healing now are we? omegalol
    wisdom only adds 2.5k mana for the entire fight for all those classes as calculated before, which again, isn't insignificant but it's one mana pot vs one destro pot
    that does not make or break the boss :)

    comedy gold

    WTF?
    shure its not necessary but the afford of summoning an extra paladin into the raid is worth it....
    ever played a hunter on brutallus? i guess not, using mana pots aswell as viper aspect is a huge damage loss since more shots = more mana through wisdom *gg*

  12. WTF?
    shure its not necessary but the afford of summoning an extra paladin into the raid is worth it....
    ever played a hunter on brutallus? i guess not, using mana pots aswell as viper aspect is a huge damage loss since more shots = more mana through wisdom *gg*
    He isn't disagreeing that it's good. He's disagreeing that it's *necessary*.

    Every raid day a new guild is killing this boss. At this point we should be able to agree that Brut isn't over-tuned. In fact, based on the pace that guilds are killing him, he might be the best tuned boss that has ever released on this server. I can't think of a better one that wasn't either too hard, or too easy, or bugged in some way when it first released.
    Edited: September 11, 2018

  13. - Our strat doesn't use a hpally to heal the tanks on brutallus, irrelevant
    - either way light isn't necessary so it's a moot point
    Who cares about your strat lol, if you are not using hpally now all shouldnt and all hpaladins should reroll?

    - Our strat doesn't use a hpally to heal the tanks on brutallus, irrelevant
    - either way light isn't necessary so it's a moot point
    - salvation for healers on brutallus? we're going to pull aggro healing now are we? omegalol
    wisdom only adds 2.5k mana for the entire fight for all those classes as calculated before, which again, isn't insignificant but it's one mana pot vs one destro pot
    that does not make or break the boss :)

    comedy gold
    And brutallus is not only boss in game..

    I agree with spraynard, this is life of x7 rate server, every player has paladin buff bot which is sad..but you all picked to play here anyways, if you play on x1 it wouldnt be drastic like this. And i honestly dont see problem if boss is tuned harder at begining, you can always nerf it later and oposite is not cool at all.

  14. Who cares about your strat lol, if you are not using hpally now all shouldnt and all hpaladins should reroll?
    He didn't say he wasn't using a holy paladin. He said he wasn't using a holy paladin "to heal the tanks." Which is true.

  15. He didn't say he wasn't using a holy paladin. He said he wasn't using a holy paladin "to heal the tanks." Which is true.
    And i am saying brutallus is not only boss ingame, holy paladins usually do heal tanks so saying tanks need only 2 buffs is not true.

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