1. Is this ninja?

    I was doing a dungeon on my lvl 74 warrior as dps and one of the bosses dropped a tank ring that was better than one of the rings I had:
    tank ring:
    my ring:
    so I checked the chat and saw what the tank rolled, he passed it, so since he doesn't need it, and to avoid it from being sold to a vendor or desinchanted, I rolled need, took the ring for myself since I was the only one to roll and left. Then the feral druid dps whispered me and said that I could be reported for doing that, I asked him if he wanted the ring for his off spec, he said no, and said that someone could have needed the gold or the enchanting materials from it and that I still shouldn't have rolled need.

    Am I in trouble?

  2. Yes if someone reports you, you can get in trouble.

  3. Yes if someone reports you, you can get in trouble.
    Although technically true, I believe it falls within the gray area of what is to be considered ninja or not as 5 gold or 1 small dream shard shouldn't be prioritized over a general gear score upgrade, even for the wrong specialization. Furthermore, the person in question is a warrior capable of becoming a tank so it could be claimed as an off-spec roll. I wouldn't personally consider it a ninja roll, if the option to decide was bestowed upon me.

    Level 74 is still leveling and there every stat pretty much matters - the extra stamina and armor can mean a greater chance of survival against a bigger pull of mobs, for instance.

  4. The roll system was designed so that you could roll on stuff you NEED. It is how Blizzard designed it. If Warmane thinks they know better how to classify when someone needs an item then they must think they are better than Blizzard.

  5. @Jhenna0
    This item is objectively worse for you in your role as fury dps.

    The Signet gives (30*1.2)*1.97+308/108*3 = 79.475 AP
    (1.97 is the strength to AP conversion at that level, 1.2 Improved Berserker Stance, last term is Armored to the teeth)
    The Tuskring gives 64.
    That makes a difference of 15.4755 AP

    Let's compare that with the expertise Rating. For that we look at the skill skaling for each stat at that level.
    All skills 25.2 Exp equals to +1% damage
    Autoattacks 17.9 Exp equals to +1% damage, 39.2 AP equals to +1% damage
    Bloodthirst 22 AP equals to +1%damage
    Whirlwind 39.9 AP equals to +1%damage
    Slam 44.1 AP equals to +1% damage
    Execute 65.2 AP equals to +1% damage

    Overall, equipping the Signet over the Tuskring would mean
    Autoattacks -0.33% damage
    Bloodthirst +0.18% damage
    Whirlwind -0.12% damage
    Slam -0.16% damage
    Execute -0.27% damage

    Given the skill distribution over the total damage done (Whirlwind does the most damage total) and the Damage per Rage ratio (Bloodthirst having a 30-40% worse ratio), your overall damage will decrease if you equip the Signet over the Tuskring.


    @comlogo
    I would like to get into trouble with you, if you know what I mean ;).


    @thyonem
    The rules state that ninja rolling in this case is defined by needing on items that does not fit your role or is not needed to fulfill that role better. He was dps and he should not need tank items (without asking, most people don't mind).


    @Glader
    No, you are wrong. There is no inbuild roll system that restricts based on stuff you need.
    There is just a restriction based on armor classes (cloth, leather, mail, plate). That's why warriors can NEED on spellpower rings and resto druids are not able to NEED on cloth items.

  6. I think this is bull. If the tank passed on it, I don't see why you couldn't roll need. Everyone can have dual spec, so just because you were fury doesn't mean, you don't have prot as your dual spec and could've used it. If no one else wanted it, I feel you had every right to roll need.

    I mean, seriously, why even have the greed/need options if you're going to be policed on it? Just define gear for a specific class and remove all rolling. Otherwise, my opinion is that if you have the option to roll and can use it, go for it.

    Heck, I had someone threaten to report me for rolling greed on a plate helm. THERE WE NO PLATE WEARERS IN THE GROUP. Dudu tank, priest, shaman, rogue and hunter. At that point, it's literally a useless item to everyone so everyone should've rolled greed.

  7. I'm not sure of technicalities but if person of that role passed it i think its fine roll need for your own off spec,

    Im tanking dungeons and evertytime i see nobody rolls for dps role items which suits my own off spec i roll for it.
    Tho its might slighly be different with BoE's but with BoP if tank doesnt need it just roll for it.

  8. After reading all of the replies above from other members I see there is the word "technically" mentioned a few times... If this was retail WoW and someone needed on an item that they actually needed; albeit a different spec or just a general need for said item, then the person who rolled need should rightfully have it.

    With that said... If another member in the party also needed the item, and both sides rolled "need" then it's basically down to fair is fair. That is how the system is designed, but I would not ever call it ninja'ing only because if you needed the item then you NEEDED the item.

    If no one else NEEDED said item then the item goes to someone that can actually use it, if it was to be sold for gold then it could have easily been greeded on by other members of the group.

    I do not believe Blizzard themselves would even see it as a ninja roll in this case, since their terms are as follow "need" for actual use, "greed" for other uses such as selling the item. Others may use the greed option if they don't particularly need it but wouldn't mind having it.

    *shrug*

  9. @Jhenna0
    This item is objectively worse for you in your role as fury dps.

    The Signet gives (30*1.2)*1.97+308/108*3 = 79.475 AP
    (1.97 is the strength to AP conversion at that level, 1.2 Improved Berserker Stance, last term is Armored to the teeth)
    The Tuskring gives 64.
    That makes a difference of 15.4755 AP

    Let's compare that with the expertise Rating. For that we look at the skill skaling for each stat at that level.
    All skills 25.2 Exp equals to +1% damage
    Autoattacks 17.9 Exp equals to +1% damage, 39.2 AP equals to +1% damage
    Bloodthirst 22 AP equals to +1%damage
    Whirlwind 39.9 AP equals to +1%damage
    Slam 44.1 AP equals to +1% damage
    Execute 65.2 AP equals to +1% damage

    Overall, equipping the Signet over the Tuskring would mean
    Autoattacks -0.33% damage
    Bloodthirst +0.18% damage
    Whirlwind -0.12% damage
    Slam -0.16% damage
    Execute -0.27% damage

    Given the skill distribution over the total damage done (Whirlwind does the most damage total) and the Damage per Rage ratio (Bloodthirst having a 30-40% worse ratio), your overall damage will decrease if you equip the Signet over the Tuskring.


    @comlogo
    I would like to get into trouble with you, if you know what I mean ;).


    @thyonem
    The rules state that ninja rolling in this case is defined by needing on items that does not fit your role or is not needed to fulfill that role better. He was dps and he should not need tank items (without asking, most people don't mind).


    @Glader
    No, you are wrong. There is no inbuild roll system that restricts based on stuff you need.
    There is just a restriction based on armor classes (cloth, leather, mail, plate). That's why warriors can NEED on spellpower rings and resto druids are not able to NEED on cloth items.
    Sacrificing 15 attack power for the sake of increased survivability during leveling, which is most always welcome is genuinely worth it in my honest opinion. Furthermore, if a tank passed onto the item, the next person possible of being a tank should be, by default, feel right rolling need for the item which they themselves can potentially use. If a caster rolls need on a strength ring, then it is a problem (and vise versa, of course), but in situations such as this where one can possibly benefit from the item in the future (or instantly if protection is a secondary spec,) I think this should be overlooked as not being a ninja... Anyways, I see you went through and beyond your way to make unnecessary calculations as to how an item under the max level will be worse than another such item... Kudos.

  10. Ninja luting is when a person leaves the party and individually takes all the things. Everything else is your crying teenagers. A person may have another spec, maybe he took it for sale or indeed if the game offered him a choice and he didn’t use exploits and didn’t leave the party, then everything is legal. Stop crying kids.

  11. Ninja luting is when a person leaves the party and individually takes all the things. Everything else is your crying teenagers. A person may have another spec, maybe he took it for sale or indeed if the game offered him a choice and he didn’t use exploits and didn’t leave the party, then everything is legal. Stop crying kids.
    A sad troll is a sad troll.

    You can say it's in the gray area, but it isn't. It's a tank ring, definitely meant for tanks with its defense rating, not for dps.

  12. A sad troll is a sad troll.

    You can say it's in the gray area, but it isn't. It's a tank ring, definitely meant for tanks with its defense rating, not for dps.

    If the OP took if for the reason to have it for tank offspec and no one else needed or wanted it to sell for a few gold then the OP should be allowed to keep the item rightfully to themself and make actual use out of it.

  13. If the OP took if for the reason to have it for tank offspec and no one else needed or wanted it to sell for a few gold then the OP should be allowed to keep the item rightfully to themself and make actual use out of it.
    Sure.. if he asked 1st. Which he didn't do. He saw tank passing and selected need, won it since others rolled greed/de or didn't roll at all.
    I've been in the same situation, seeing an item drop to my OS and others rolling DE. One time I asked and made sure it was OK for ALL that I needed it for OS. Several other times, when the item wasn't that great, I just greeded with others.

    With the RDF it's heavily leaning on NEED - MS use. GREED/DISENCHANT - OS / Vendor / Craft.

    And before you go "somebody's OS > gold/material", which, in some way, I do agree with. I want you to remember that you need gold to repair, enchant, socket and to buy reagents. Which are rather important if you want to raid.

  14. Sure.. if he asked 1st. Which he didn't do. He saw tank passing and selected need, won it since others rolled greed/de or didn't roll at all.
    I've been in the same situation, seeing an item drop to my OS and others rolling DE. One time I asked and made sure it was OK for ALL that I needed it for OS. Several other times, when the item wasn't that great, I just greeded with others.

    With the RDF it's heavily leaning on NEED - MS use. GREED/DISENCHANT - OS / Vendor / Craft.

    And before you go "somebody's OS > gold/material", which, in some way, I do agree with. I want you to remember that you need gold to repair, enchant, socket and to buy reagents. Which are rather important if you want to raid.


    I'm sorry but personally I will stick to the actual use of the need/greed option... If the other members didn't need it they will pass on it. Simple as that. You should not have to tiptoe around just because you want and need an item for your offspec when everyone else passed on it.

    Not to mention I do not care if someone needs it for gold use, then they can continue to run other things and find things to sell for gold. But to sell an item that another player can actually USE seems asinine to me personally. If you see someone can actually USE the item, regardless of OS or MS, then they should rightfully have it, especially if you know you would vendor it yourself.

  15. I'm sorry but personally I will stick to the actual use of the need/greed option... If the other members didn't need it they will pass on it. Simple as that. You should not have to tiptoe around just because you want and need an item for your offspec when everyone else passed on it.

    Not to mention I do not care if someone needs it for gold use, then they can continue to run other things and find things to sell for gold. But to sell an item that another player can actually USE seems asinine to me personally. If you see someone can actually USE the item, regardless of OS or MS, then they should rightfully have it, especially if you know you would vendor it yourself.
    How can you tell the person who needed for "OS" is even going to use the item. Slight problem there, it could end up to a vendor or as crafting materials.
    Also we could go circle around the fact that this was "low levels". Needing an OS item, when you'll get several opportunities to get better items from quests or instances (with proper rolling, or asking 1st).
    Lets assume somebody rolls to OS that he actually needs at lvl 72. What are the chances he'll use the item? He might have just started to gear OS, taking any tank item he can find. Probability to find better item while getting the gear to even be able to tank "properly" is high. So why should somebody's need for OS triumph greed rollers, if the item will end up at a vendor.

    It's, imho, pointless to cry if person who needs for OS (even if in this case tank passed) and somebody reports them. You did break a rule so you'll be punished accordingly.

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