I apologize if this is in the wrong board, this is my first time using the forums.
I was running heroic RDF on Icecrown, playing my Troll Resto Shaman with my friend running Feral Druid Tank. We got Pit of Sauron. The first problem that rose up was that Ick dropped his tanking trinket, and my friend needed on it (because his trinkets are garbage and it's a direct upgrade). The frost DK dps then also prpceeded to need on it, won the roll. I asked him if he could please give it to my friend, he isn't tanking, it's kind of a dick move to take a trinket that isn't for yout spec (especially because he had better trinekts anyway), he said no, I told him that if he doesnt, then my friend and I would leave and they would have to find a new tank and healer. He yelled at me, finally gave the trinket, and said he would report me for threatening him like that.
The second problem, we continue the dungeon, kill the final boss, and he drops his caster trinket (I'm sorry I can't remember the name, its the one that gives spellpower and has a crit CD on it). I need on it, the shadow priest needs on it, and I win it. The shadow priest then whispers me and says I am a ninja for taking a DPS trinket and that if I did not give it to him right now he would report me for ninja looting in a dungeon. For reference, i am wearing two ilevel 200 BLUE trinkets, one of which gives hit rating (which i really need to replace...)
I then tell him no, I need it, it's a direct upgrade to either of my trinket. He says its not for healers, if i don't give it to him he will report me and I will be banned for a week. I then get in a devate with him about what makes the trinket apecificly a dps trinket, bevause theres surely no hit rating on it. He claimed it had "crit hit rating", which healers don't need. To my understanding, critical "HIT" isn't mutually exclusive to attacks. Ultimately I tell him he isn't getting it, he then tells me that he will pay me for it, 100g, and I say no (especially since he was threatening to get me banned for needing on a trinket I actially NEED). He finally says that I am a ninja and that he will report me along with getting his guild to report me, and at this point I say "sure, whatever", and ignore him...
Sorry for the rambling, but I am curious. Am I in the wrong here? I figure I am not, and even if it was a caster dps trinket, if it was still better than any trinket I already had, is that a bannable offense in a dungeon???
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"Ninja looting" in a RDF group
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Member
Greetings
Yes you could get a ban for this because hit is a dps-stat and not a healer-stat. I had some discussions in other threads about similar issues :
http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=392399&page=2
Conclusion in short form:
Healers: Spirit/x
Dps: Hit/haste/crit
Tank: Parry/block/avoid
Here is the general problem why I'm not fan of these rules, an example:
I played disc in wotlk (retail) and used Haste(cap)>Spellpower>Crit>Spirit, similar to this:
Haste (till cap) > Spellpower > Crit > Haste (above cap) > Int > Mp5/Spirit
http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=346233
Retail allowed it, warmane would ban ppl for rolls on crit/haste-items, maybe you see the issue;)
Regards
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Member
But shaman's don't even want Spirit, it's a useless stat for them? I feel like it would legitimately be ninja looting on a trinket if it was a spirit trinket, however what about a spellpower + crit trinket means it is a dps caster trinket and not a mutual tribket between dps and healer? That makes no sense to me.
I guess what troubles me about that ruling is that this isn't a situation of say a warrior needing on a trinket just for the sake of selling it for some quick cash, it's a trinket that has no dps exclusive stats on it (like hit rating), so what about it would make it dps only? Let alone the fact the guy threatened me, then when I told him no he offered to pay me, i still said no, and then went back to threatening me.
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Member
This post is,accurate, however the item in question is https://wotlk-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=50259
This does not have hit on it (OP forgot the name of the stat - crit strike RATING), and is perfectly okay for a healer to roll on.
OP did not commit a punishable offense.
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Greetings Ikajsdkf
Thx for the information. I didn't google the item and wonder about critical "Hit" anyway;)
I'm not sure, but I followed many threads already and think, that a stong GM could give a ban nevertheless. He could justify it with the crit-proc which is more a dps than a heal stats.
I give you an example: A blood dk rolled on items with crit and got a ban for ninjaing because crit is a dps stat no matter if a tank/heal could need crit, or it's proc (in your case);)
Regards
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Member
Thank you for the comment. I was on my break at work and on my phone, so I was just going off memory (also sorry for the typo's).
Firstly, I appreciate the comments a lot! Thanks for commenting. I had the time to read through that thread you posted up beforehand, and I can see an argument for someone being considered a "ninja looter" if it was say a pug, and a healer was rolling Need on a trinket with Hit Rating on it.
However, in that example that you brought up regarding the Blood Deathknight; were they specifically a tank? Or were they a DPS? If he was specifically a tank deathknight, then yeah I can see why that would be justified as ninja looting something that isn't viable/intended for a tank. However, blood deathknights can be dps too (at least in WotLK), even though they are less viable than their Frost or Unholy bretheren, there is nothing stopping a Blood Deathknight from being a DPS. So if that scenario had that Blood Deathknight as a DPS role, then I would find that a little bit ridiculous if he ended up being banned for that.
Back on my previous point though. I am sorry for the confusion, I meant specifically Critical Strike rating. The shadow priest that was threatening to report me for Ninja Looting specifically stated "Healers don't need Critical Strike, it is a DPS specific stat, heals don't benifit from Critical Strike". To my understanding that statement is completely false. And if we're using a scenario where crit gear is considered to be more DPS oriented than healer, and one could be branded a ninja looter if a healer were to role on gear that had crit on it, I find that to be troubling considering much of the Restoration Shaman talents trigger off of crits.
Examples:
Improved Water Shield (Triggers a water shield orb for mana regeneration when you crit with Healing Wave, Lesser Healing Wave, or Chain Heal)
Ancestral Awakening (Chance on crit heals to heal the next lowest health party/raid member for an amount)
4-piece Tier 10 Set (All chain heal crits heal the target for 25% of the healed amount over the next 9 seconds)
And not to mention just more likely chances of getting a critical heal is nice too... So that alone leaves me to believe that Critical Strike as a stat, albeit not a "Focus" for Resto Shamans, is still pretty important, if not just as important as having a high Haste rating. That being said, does that mean a proc chance crit trinket is designed for a healer? No, problably not, but that's not what the trinket was either. It's a trinket with spellpower (which is good for any caster, DPS or Healer, doesn't matter), and a 3 minute cooldown that raises your critical strike for 20 seconds.
I apologize for the rambling. I got a little peeved by the shadow priest when I sat down and actually tried to think out the arguments he was making, personally there's nothing about that trinket that specifically reads "This is for a DPS class", and the fact that after I denied the priest that I would give it to him, he tried to offer to buy it from me, and when I respectuflly declined, he continued to threaten by reporting me... but the fact he tried to pay me for it just seemed to reaffirm that he was in the wrong on this one.
Anyway, rambling aside... thank you for the replies, guys. If I'm wrong in my thinking regarding stats or the like, then I would be more than willing to have a discussion on that.
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Member
The trinket is fine to roll on for a healer. The only healer-only stat is mp5 (spirit has marginal direct DPS benefits for Mages, for example). The only DPS-only stat is hit. There are only two options out of the Icecrown 5-mans for a healer, Ephemeral Snowflake and Nevermelting Ice Crystal, so while I'm not a fan of this trinket as a healer it's certainly a possibility.
Edited: October 26, 2018
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That trinket is great for heals as well since paladins and shaman rely on crit heals so its good for heals and dps also
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Forum Veteran
The http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50259 is good for healers and DPS. There's nothing that would specify it being DPS only item, or being bad for healer.
Healers: MP5 and/or Spirit (Spirit not being outright healer stat)Originally Posted by Zcsxm2
DPS: Hit.
Tank: Dodge, Parry, Block, Defense (they still need Hit and Exp to generate threat)
MDPS & Tank: Expertise
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I did always wonder about this "RDF Ninjas".
There is so many stuffs that ppl report for ninja and many ppl get banned for stupid reasons.
First of all this trinket is a spell power user trinket no matter dps / heal. I would still prefer to have certain amount of spell power as well if my trinkets are rare trinkets with hit rating. Still its a huge upgrade for one healer.
There is no reason why would this trinket be specified to DPS only trinket. Since resto shamans could easy proc the effect ( resto druids and priests ) using their dots.
But still there is a possibility that you will get "ninja banned" for not a great reason if some GM just dont take in mind that it was actually big upgrade for you. But still I would never understand ppl who just "report" all this bull**** for some "****ty" items over and over.
Best luck
Regrads
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Not a single thing this guy said is right :D
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Yeah, pretty much my sentiments on the whole matter... I've seen a lot of "Banned for X days for ninja looting in a dungeon", and considering my recent experiences in RDF, I really start to question the credibility of this rule/judgement, if someone can be considered a Ninja for taking something that they intend to use, regardless of it's spec. I mean it's one thing if it's a direct upgrade, but to be honest I sat down and had a conversation with some friends and just really tried to think things out a bit.
If say I am a main resto shaman healer, and my off spec is enhancement shaman, but I'm already a raiding-equivilant geared healer who's just doing RDF to work on my OS, if one can easily get a temporary ban because you're a healer/tank who's trying to work on your off spec, but it's considered ninja looting a dungeon if you're rolling on gear that isn't your current spec, I do find that to be kind of ****ty. Why would I go into dungeons as a DPS if all my DPs gear is crap, but I have full 232 - 264 on my healing set?
I can understand the situation if you're legitimately taking gear from people who are trying to gear their main spec, just because you want to gear your off spec.. that would be kind of rude. But I've been told of scenarios of tanks and healers trying to gear up their OS, and being in groups of people who aren't needing on any items that they wanted, but were banned for ninja looting anyway, because they aren't needing for their MS. Like, really?
That's just my personal opinion though.. I get the intent, I think it's alright to try and crack down on asshats who roll need on stuff just to DE/Vendor something that someoen could have legitimately needed, but I feel like if they're going to crack down on ninja looters, then the rules need to not only be clearly defined, but something that can't really be misconstrued or a debatable offense.
I am at least glad that I seem to have been in the right on this one, the Shadow Priest almost had me convinced for a second because he specified that "Critical STRIKE, the strike means damage, you don't benefit from that as a healer", and then forgot whether or not there was a crit stat separation or not because I haven't played WoW in a couple years... seems kind of trashy and or toxic to go to such lengths to trick/threaten someone into giving you something, pfft. -shrug-
Thanks for all the replies, guys!
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Forum Veteran
I know hahahahaha I was shaking my head whole post through.
TO make a very long post short, GM's are not stupid. Uppgrade - Uppgrade no matter if its "proper bis blahbah **** whatever reason so I get it" Hence Deathbringers Will - Retri paladin ;D
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DBW is good for ret paladins in pvp.
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Edited: November 7, 2018
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