Icecrown Alliance PVE Issue for newcomers

[mariomii]

Hello I'm a newcomer and this is my conclusion.

At the moment there are no mid range progressive PVE guilds left (on alliance at all) that will accept you as an average 5,5 gear score player and allow you to raid dynamic ICC/RS with them. (Which you really need for them to exist otherwise you're stuck).

-Those guilds don't really exist anymore or i haven't seen one for the past 3 months that I'm playing on Icecrown plus PUGs would go further than those kinds of guilds anyway.

-Now with that out of the way only option to get gear gear is by finding PUG raids.
That being said you wont get invited in PUG raids unless you're overgeared 6k+ & you already have 25 player mode achievement (which you don't cuz you can't find a guild that farms 25dynamic ICC/RS).

Also there are guilds that farm LOD and that wont even consider you with your puny starter gear.


So what do we have here?

- Emblems of Frost & Triumph (Dungeons, VOA,TOGC) can gear you up to 5,6 or 5,7 gearscore Max (without donating a single item).

- PUGS require around 6k+ Gearscore & Achievements that you don't have since you can't find a progressive guild to farm ICC so your best achievement is ''Storming the Citatel'' that you got with a low life PUG that disbanded on 5th boss :D

- LOD guilds wont even consider you

So what you have is endless bottomless struggle to get to 6k gearscore to attend a little bit more decent pugs and eventually join a guild but since server is quite old and already progressed so far even with 6,2 gearscore finding a LOD guild will be hard since most of the people in LOD guilds are already BIS or have Legendaries etc.

So pretty much the struggle newcomers experience in this server is just hilarious.


-- I play my rogue on Icecrown for a solid month and a half and i managed to push it to 6k gearscore but i paid 100$ for trinkets and weapons and i still can't find raid cuz i don't have achievements and i can't really explain to those people that achievements don't really mean anything.


You removing the Vote point non heroic gear just sped up the degradation of newcomer progressive player.


Are game admins open for any further discussion about this problem since I'm Sure Horde has it as well.

https://imgur.com/a/vC5ms7k

[Berkerong]

If you can't find an icc farming guild with 6k gs you must be doing something wrong. I dont mean to offend but are you sure you know your class well, know the boss encounters (even if you dont get invited to icc's there are many boss guides on youtube or even in this forums). If you do, there are still many things you can do:
- Join a guild as a social rank, be social in general, help people out, get noticed, message guild master days before the icc so let them try you
-Find a guild who actually NEEDS rogues, rogues are one of those classes that dont bring rest of the raid any kind of buffs other than Tott.
-Find a guild who does Alt runs, join them, get noticed, get invited to main runs ( exactly what i experienced few days ago as 5.8k ally dk dps)
-Achievements actually mean something, they are there to make sure your raid dont RO at PP.

I doubt these wont work. Wish you all the best.

[bloodshedsword]

I'm on horde, and this problem is ongoing on horde as well.

I myself host semi guild pug run icc 25 hc with Lady, PP, BPC, Sindy and LK done on NM. We ask 5.9 minimum from pugs and we never failed doing whole run.
But i see like 95% times pugs asking 6.2k+ GS for same 7/12 hc run which is laughable
Then others asking 5.9 for ICC nm

The rest 5% counts for runs hosted by another guy who only hosts grouped LOD runs (i wont call it a pug when 20-22 people in the raid are same but on diff toons since over a year). Respect to him for keeping the runs going, but its not a pug !

also the additional thing B+P Ress.

So my idea is - don't join the pugs who ask insane GS for the runs. he is simply asking you,"hey come and farm BOE and primos for me like my slaves ty"
Thats my personal opinion over it to stop feeding those gold farmers, however choice is yours.
If warmane staff has to act over it, then chips from my side are
yea add NM raids gears to VP, but not the trinkets and we are done. people wont get spoonfed fully.

If you are playing on horde side, you can adapt tot tactics on heroics well and play proper on your class; feel free to hit Arpangel / Weedmon / Xavage or Doubtlaw ingame. We can get you in guild as well (but mark my words we wont carry your any toon until you prove your worth).

As for joining the raid i host, my rules are simple. When you are afking or wiping the raid because of some drama, you are not wasting your time alone but for other 24 as well; so keep that in mind. Lootbans on particular encounters and raid kicks do happen and as our pugs are semi guild runs most time so we always have backup plans. Both for healers and tanks included.

EDIT : and dont dont dont play Assassin Rogue on PvE unless you wanna raid only with your guild. I dont invite an assassin rogue unless he is geared as dope or a guildy.

[tetriandoch07]

So my idea is - don't join the pugs who ask insane GS for the runs. he is simply asking you,"hey come and farm BOE and primos for me like my slaves ty"
Thats my personal opinion over it to stop feeding those gold farmers, however choice is yours.

That's why i join those pugs to disband them. I see an icc10n frost farm 6.1k gs min lk run elite, bla bla bla.....i join in as tank then leave after first boss. Same for 25man, 6k gs for 25n? No problem, i come as tank then leave after first boss. Then i see them looking for replacement for me, at lady, 30 minutes later after my departure. Those dudes need a lesson.

[MaXiMuS54]

If anything pugs ask for low gs so they can get the BoEs/Primo up to DBS. Higher gs basically means no tolerance for rooks and they want to actually push somewhere. I hardly see the big deal.

[hustlaaaa]

true, but thats the cancer of wotlk. Its always been like that. Thats where cata and anything newer shines.

[bloodshedsword]

@tetriandoch07

Well, i hardly do Nm runs myself. i would rather just run around dalaraun than going for NM even if its for EOF. Got like 12 geared toons enough to keep me busy on raids mainly and if i need a carry on some new alt, i just hit up my guild. rules for that is simple, carry some runs and get carried as well sometimes.

Now as for GS and all,
ICC 10 NM - legit GS for this is 5.3k if people know what they are doing but effort needed to down LK on that gs, you cant expect it from pugs. So the days i made ICC 10 nm runs, i inspected everyone whome i invite and i play almost every dps class and i know what gear can pull what. if someone doesnt has achieve, i ask if its an alt or if it is log your main and link me stuff. i have only met one guy in my life who was honest in telling me that he is playing for first time and we carried and explained things to him till Sindy.
As for those fast EOF farm geared runs ? i do them with my guild, and not pugs. Group loot, speed run.

And about the thing you said about, as per me its bad move as well. you are not wrecking the day for RL alone but other 8 guys too. Rest things are your personal choices. i had such type of tank twice in my pug runs, but i always keep backup plans for such situations. kick the tank and get 1 of DPS to tank (yea, in 10 man i always have one guy tank who plays as dps just incase the tank turns to be douche. same for healers. and the count is 2 for 25 man)

However i wont disclose my personal blacklist, but there are some guilds who are on the list. Even if they are BIS or LOD or whatever. I just kick them out at inspections. Sorry, but as i said; its time of 24 people and i wont risk it for just 1 bis guy.

Maybe you guys are joining wrong pugs imo lol. And i suggest get a good guild even if its farming 7/12 hc its worth for the time than hitting pugs.

[mariomii]

@Berkerong It has nothing to do with ''you're doing something wrong'' it's old expansion and tactics are well known (unless you're just bad or someone who just discovered wow). Lod player or non Lod player you wont see 25 progressive guilds on Alliance i can guarantee you that.

As i said you either have a choice of joining pug that will probably wipe on DBS and disband or you'll find yourself face to face with '' 6,2+ for 25nm/hc dynamic mode'' which is quite hilarious.

I even reached into my own pocket by burning 100$ but it was all in vain.

Simply there are no guilds to walk you through the awkward stage of WOTLK from 5,5 to 6,1 which means you're stuck on your own to fill that gap either by donating or by wasting months in pugs hoping that item you need will drop and that someone else wont roll it :V

Edit : And how would you feel as someone who just came here and hit that 5,5 wall while being rejected by PUGs that require absurd gear. Huge problem honestly. That's why players quit in that gap and that's why there's only 1 or 2 guilds on Alliance that farm LOD so pretty much out of 6500 players on alliance 90 is maybe clearing the content.

[angrylol]

If it's such a problem people who can't progress would accumulate in numbers. That would mean emerge of progression guilds formed from those players. You say it's not happening, so.. where did those players go?

What was your point of this post? You don't get enough free stuff? People don't invite you to LOD farms and give you items on first run? Some conspiracy that Warmane made system to milk you out of your money? Guilds must lower their standards?

You played char for 6 weeks and got to 6k gs, that's pretty impressive. But when you join guild it will be at least the same amount of time before you get your first item, especially at your endgame gear level. (You are ready to clear 25HC with 6k gs for sure). But you won't get in, unless someone can vouch for you or you fill out exceptional application(google-copy-pasta won't do). Additionally, guild rarely rely on achievements, even if you have them(char trading). Instead you will go trough trial phase and you will be judged if that guild has any worth to be in.

And, how many guilds rejected you, if that is not a secret? If it's more than 5 you shoul'd start to reflect.

[Invictum]

I can say that I very well UNDERSTAND the problem new guys are going through. When I first started (2011/2012) I ended up being 5.9k retribution paladin without a single LK kill. Luckily for me, in pug raids that I was creating I met couple very experienced guys that facepalmed after they realized I didn’t have significant raiding experience with the gear that I had at the time. Invited me to the guild they’ve been in and for the next month or two I did gain valuable experience, more than enough to make my own progression guild.

That’s what happened. < Solace > was a progression guild and we were accepting anyone who was showing they’re dedicated to same goals as everyone else. That community grew very quickly as did the number of new players and new toons that needed to be geared. Quickly ICC 10 and 10hc were on our raid schedules, ICC 25 was “doable” all up to LK. With the help of another progression guild, even ICC 25HC run happened. I haven’t managed to have enough patience to make that significant step and convert that guild to end-game however, that’s irrelevant - worth saying is that thanks to couple of officers and people smarter than myself it ended up being serious End-Game guild. I believe it’s called Dignity now, on the ally side.

So, the conclusion is: Create your own guild, give it a shot, take the matter into your own hands. Many people have same interests as you do and will join, attend raids and some of them will be really experienced, very possibly bored looking for new wave of excitement and they’ll help you grow. Pieces get together very quickly when people want the same thing.

If creating a guild seems too much for you, elevate your pug raids to whole another level. If you don’t have the experience - watch videos and ask.

Good luck.

That's why i join those pugs to disband them. I see an icc10n frost farm 6.1k gs min lk run elite, bla bla bla.....i join in as tank then leave after first boss. Same for 25man, 6k gs for 25n? No problem, i come as tank then leave after first boss. Then i see them looking for replacement for me, at lady, 30 minutes later after my departure. Those dudes need a lesson.

I have no constructive comment on your post. I could be very rude towards you and explain you a few, but I don’t think it’s worth bothering at all.

Very sad.

[mariomii]

What was your point of this post? You don't get enough free stuff? People don't invite you to LOD farms and give you items on first run? Some conspiracy that Warmane made system to milk you out of your money? Guilds must lower their standards?

And, how many guilds rejected you, if that is not a secret? If it's more than 5 you shoul'd start to reflect.

Point is that there is no mid range progressive guilds on Alliance that will take you with 5,5 gearscore and run you through the ICC / RS.
As i said before you either PUG 4 bosses for months and months till you get to the point where you can join PUGS that can clear entire 25nm. Or you just quit or you donate 70% of BIS items.

None of the guilds rejected me since there's only 2 decent (by decent i meant they usually wipe 5-6 times on Halion & LOD) guilds that actually clear content (devotion and covenant) if i'm not wrong. Every other guild is either random stuck and can't even clear 25 normals or they just don't exist. It's plain as that.


I'm not looking for free stuff etc i just said that Vote Point shop for 25 nm gear was much better option and it helped you transition the awkward stage of WOTLK.

So in other words back then vote points shop helped you leave 5,5 gearscore and progress trough the normal mode quite fast.

When vote point shop was around there were more 25hc guilds and 25nm guilds & you could've geared faster and actually enjoy the expansion, now you either donate or struggle.

I dare you to make a new character and get it to 6k gearscore within a 6 week period, I'm pretty sure you'll quit half way though since you will get mass reject by PUGS due to not having achievements or good gear.

So good luck explaining people that you're skilled player but you got 0 achievements and gear that would backup your story.

Remember you're playing on Icecrown.

[angrylol]

Point is that there is no mid range progressive guilds on Alliance that will take you with 5,5 gearscore and run you through the ICC / RS.

Then where are those hundreds of players who are in the same position as you?

As i said before you either PUG 4 bosses for months and months till you get to the point where you can join PUGS that can clear entire 25nm. Or you just quit or you donate 70% of BIS items.

Pugs like that don't exist.

None of the guilds rejected me since there's only 2 decent (by decent i meant they usually wipe 5-6 times on Halion & LOD) guilds that actually clear content (devotion and covenant) if i'm not wrong. Every other guild is either random stuck and can't even clear 25 normals or they just don't exist. It's plain as that.

So you want in guild that carries you, despite your obvious inexperience. You know "stuck and can't clear normals" is the definition of progression guilds. But joining and growing together is out of question for you - that's exactly why you are here. Problem is on your end. Those guilds who are stuck after half a year will farm LOD and you will still be here, standing on bucket and declaring how bad the world is.

I'm not looking for free stuff etc i just said that Vote Point shop for 25 nm gear was much better option and it helped you transition the awkward stage of WOTLK.

So in other words back then vote points shop helped you leave 5,5 gearscore and progress trough the normal mode quite fast.

When vote point shop was around there were more 25hc guilds and 25nm guilds & you could've geared faster and actually enjoy the expansion, now you either donate or struggle.

DOES-NOT-COMPUTE-ERROR

I dare you to make a new character and get it to 6k gearscore within a 6 week period, I'm pretty sure you'll quit half way though since you will get mass reject by PUGS due to not having achievements or good gear.

So good luck explaining people that you're skilled player but you got 0 achievements and gear that would backup your story.

Remember you're playing on Icecrown.

Easy. I can explain in depth and length about every single boss encounter, spell, mechanic, every spell of my class, what, when, where - everything.

You know, I once had like some t9 set and it seemed that there is some wall, can't progress. You know what I did? Found out how it works. Spen't 3 hrs reading guides on my class and role. Thought about it. Found guides on all bosses, boss spell descriptions, tactics, everything. Did everything I possibly coul'd before even stepping foot in ICC. Then I was looking for guild that was interested to start ICC with fitting raid time. Found some dudes, we sucked. There were one or two guys who kinda knew how it looks in game. Wipes. LOADS of wipes. Weeks of wiping. Every week we got further and further. Killed LK. Started HC. More wipes. Some weeks without any progress, only wipes on same boss as last week. We got better with every try, we got gear from bosses we killed. We killed LK HC. We started to farm it. We got BiS toons, started Alt runs. Everyone wanted piece of it, hundreds of people wanted to join up. Because we were "good", seems everyone forgot that few months ago floor around every boss was full of our skeletons and we were "stuck".

I wouldn't invite you, that's for sure.

[huyznaet]

People just complain about everything. You can easily gear up to 6k in 2 weaks just by pugs. I did some random pugs for icc and clear 10/12 with 5.3 gs.

nvm . i wont go further because its make no sense people come to forum just to cry.

[maqisha]

People just complain about everything. You can easily gear up to 6k in 2 weaks just by pugs. I did some random pugs for icc and clear 10/12 with 5.3 gs.

nvm . i wont go further because its make no sense people come to forum just to cry.

Finally!


@OP If you are a 6k rogue with bis trinkets and weapons and you still aren't farming LoD, the problem is you, not the server.

[mariomii]

I have multiple chars with LOD/Bane rs25hc dating back to 2015 and considering how many chars I've sold so far I'm pretty sure I outnumber anything that you had 5 times more but that's not the reason why i posted the thread.

If you wont accept fact that only 2 guilds on alliance clear 25hc content and maybe an Arabic guild doing 25nm and 2 pugs which one of them will wipe on 4th boss and other one will struggle to kill LK even tho they're 6k+ in a normal 25... well i think something is wrong with you.

You're telling me that out of 6500 active daily players on Icecrown Alliance only 500 (Maybe if not less are playing and clearing the content). Well that just leaves you with 6.000 missing players on 1 faction doing nothing related to Icecrown Citadel & Ruby Sanctum Patch.

So I who did this entire rogue journey (6 weeks) on my own concluded that Everything i said in main post about gap and lack of PVE Guilds on Alliance is correct and unbiased in any way.

Unless other 6.000 players play Arena/Battle Grounds so much or play dungeons and other Lower raids.
(Which if you play you would know that it's not true and you gotta either snipe people in 3s & 2s for rating or wait up to 5-10 minutes BG proc on such high populated realm).

You do realize I'm talking about 2 LOD guilds on Alliance and 2-3 (at the best) random non english guilds.

Can you fathom the sheer numbers and accept that it's a problem.


https://imgur.com/a/vC5ms7k