View Poll Results: Solo queue format

Voters
373. You may not vote on this poll
  • Melee + Caster + Healer

    178 47.72%
  • Double DPS + Healer

    195 52.28%
  1. What if solo queue would be reworked? Instead of putting randoms together in a arena fight it could work as a searching tool to find ppl for 3s.
    It would match double DPS and Healer together in a party and the players could then decide if their setup fits or if they abandon the grp and search again.
    After the arena game the party would remain. If a player decides to leave the other two can reqeue to recruit a third player.
    Maybe the dungeon finder could be reworked to work as such a recuitment tool.
    Apart from being overly complicated, I'm afraid your suggestion would destroy the purpose of soloq. The whole idea of soloq lies in playing with a different comp against a different comp every time. It tests your ability to play in any comp and adapt to situation unlike 3s.

  2. Apart from being overly complicated, I'm afraid your suggestion would destroy the purpose of soloq. The whole idea of soloq lies in playing with a different comp against a different comp every time. It tests your ability to play in any comp and adapt to situation unlike 3s.
    In this case wouldn't a merge between 3s and soloq destroy the purpose of soloq even more?
    I mean, ppl with a perfect 3s setup would farm players with a suboptimal soloq setups.

  3. Any concrete change that you can think of?
    Well, first of all let me say that i personally dont have ANY experience regarding how and in which ways the mmr could be modified. Altho i was thinking about this, as far as we know one of the biggest issues (at least on Icecrown) is the fact that the MMR goes higher then the TR quite easy, even with a quite bad score.
    Also we know that no matter what your mmr is, you take max 48 rating from a win (Icecrown/Lordaeron, dunno about Blackrock nowdays).

    I think that could be a really good point to design the rating to easier get in range with your mmr.

    Also in my opinion the rating gained in general should be higher, thats because you (we) need to avoid that nightmare gap that appear between 1.700-2000 rate for any casual player.
    For gap i mean the fact that several times so many high-teams meet people who are actually playng to reach the weapon rates and so on, ending up in players who arent much into PvP scene, simply give up.

    Increasing the rating gained and increasing the rapidity of the rating/mmr catch up , could solve the issue, as the top players (that usually have a good score overall) will get high rating faster and fight the other top players, while being way higher then any casual player who is aiming to get 1.8 weapons (ofc they will still be able to meet them in arena, but with higher rating, the % to meet such teams, will be way less then how it is). And the rating loss is way too much, even when mmr is similar.

    An example is that: http://armory.warmane.com/team/qweqw.../match-history
    2429 (+16)
    2429 (+16)
    2779 (-13)
    2335 (-13)

    Doing the math the higher mmr team had in total a 2557mmr, so just a bit more then 100 above the lower one. 13 rating loss.

    Could be a solution also make the teams start at 1500 rating/1500 mmr , in the same way as Blackrock.

    I think Warmane should design the mmr similar to the Blizzard one, where people with a "bad score" still keep getting higher rate. That would also lower a bit the amount of snipe & dodge during the whole season. A system that "gift" who is really queing and fighting his way to the rating, more then a system that gift who dodge and snipe majority of time.

    About 3s i would personally think about a system that allows 3s rated teams to que into soloq/duoq but ONLY untill 2.000 rating for the shoulders, wont be easy anyway, but way more doable then how is it right now.
    Once people notice that they can actually get shoulders (talking about Icecrown/Lord) they will have enjoyed more the 3s, probably they will also try to get 2.2 weapons grouping up with others.

    I've always theorycrafted that what a 3s/2s ladder needs to be active, arent the same top10 players, but the rest 1000 teams that can consist in future top players, and future challenge.

  4. what do you think about the idea of ​​banning the strongest setups?
    exclusively for solo players without a party ,what do not want to see setups
    rmp,tsg, Thunder,lsp ,can I add that thread

  5. what do you think about the idea of ​​banning the strongest setups?
    exclusively for solo players without a party ,what do not want to see setups
    rmp,tsg, Thunder,lsp ,can I add that thread
    Despite the fact that your point is completly personal and it can just be like "mommy these comps seems too strong for me, ban them so i can get rating as any random comp i get in soloq or with grouping up with any friend"

    How you could even make something work.?

    Let's state you "ban" LSP.
    3s and Duo/Soloq are all in the same bracket
    In the same way you should figure out what comps are the strongest, not only with a 3s team, but with also a soloq/duoq group.
    And i dont even think you can make a certain team to not que into a certain comp and so on; people would find asap a way to abuse that system in order to not queing into a single LSP/TC.

  6. Good that something is happening. Thoughts:
    1. 3s teams can already face duo q people up to 2k mmr. Yet as previously mentioned both are rather dead. Every now and then there are 2-3 real 3s ques happening for 2hours. 5% of these ques are vs duoq people.
    2. If you let soloq face real 3s teams you have to set soloq to 2 random dps + healer. Elsewise the cleave combs from real 3s will only face melee + healer + caster teams. Imagine LSP being unable to face MLS/ATC/God comb or ATC being unable to face LSP in regards to Soloq. 4 or 5 years ago we had the system that only real 3s teams composed of healer + melee + caster could face soloq teams which were also consisting of melee + caster + healer. As a result there were mostly cleave teams in 3s and some melee + caster + healer at 2,8k in 3s (Taximan, Twuits, James).
    3. Im indecisive whether it's good to change the current raiting requirement for heroic weapons. On the one hand side I could actually play alts of my main class (hunter) again without having to acquiesce a lack of gear. But I fear it would make it indeed too easy to obtain these weapons then if it can simply be obtained by Soloq. I tend to favour the current system since it will be a lot easier to get up to 2,2k in 3s with cross-realm being enabled and it would only be fair towards the players on the other realms when you actually have to build a team and que together to get to 2,2k in 3s to get a weapon like Shadowmourne.
    4. Many if not most people on Lordaeron and Icecrown already have BIS gear for pvp (at least when it comes to the weps). I doubt the gap of gear will be that high. Only problem is indeed that there will be people with possibly S6 gear even while even the basic set on Blackrock is full S7 and TOGC pve pieces.
    5. I am also in favour of disabling the matchmaking between real 3s and Soloq/Duoq at a certain time. This will prevent a new Noiseless.
    6. While preventing the repetitive composition of players that lost as a team is a good idea please keep in mind that it is important to consider the opposite case as well. Punter + some SP and DK abused the system in a way that they were queing at exactly the same time to always get matched up together, being on voice, and thus just often steamrolling the randomly composed enemy 3s Soloq team. These kind of addons/tricks are often used on vanilla wow servers so you can join a bg with 9/14/39 other people previously chosen.

  7. I will try to describe my point of view on different yet connected topics of Blackrock arena and equip system. I don't criticise anything unless I thought of an improvement.

    Classic 3v3: Dead bracket for now. You can wait few hours and nobody logs this bracket at all. It always surprises me to see a team with some games played on website armory unfortunately most of them are wintraders. Viable solution for revival of this bracket could be a merge with soloqueue which would require just small improvements in team compositions to be able to face 3v3 custom teams (I will talk more about this improvement in posts below).

    Duoque: Due to its separation from soloque it's also not being played at all. Waiting times are on the par with 3v3. Nobody plays this bracket right now. Merging it with soloque wouldn't be a step back at least to rating 2200 as I describe it below.

    Soloque: Only active bracket (except for 2v2 which has also waiting times above 10 minutes during the weekdays). Nevertheless the waiting time is still quite long. Usually over 10 mins in the weekend evening with mmr over 2200. As some people in comments above this one stated I would consider separating soloq into 2 zones. First one up to 2200 rating stays same with classic mmr system (possibly merged with classic 3v3 and duoque) for searching opponents and teammates. Over 2200 rating would be NO mmr factor applied to search for teams. Simply people with ratings like for example 2250, 2500 and 2600 would get queued istantly together. On this level of gameplay everybody (except for bala druids) knows their stuff well enought and the difference amongst higher tier players is usually smaller than for example 1700 vs 1950 mmr player. That would be a reasonable price to pay for shortened waiting time at least from my perspective. One more important thing are team compositions. I believe that the question should not be about 2 formats of soloque like we have in poll at this topic. There should be list of viable composotions that are allowed to be teammed up together and comps that are restricted because of being generally "useless". For example ArmsWar/AnyRogue/Healer is straight loss setup as well as UnDK/RetriOrProtPala/other healer than resto shaman (I know that this means a little bit longer waiting times but this shouldn't be a problem if we consider possibilities of 3v3 merge and crossrealm arenas).

    Items: From my point of view item requirements are set well except for "new" T2 weapons. Because 3v3 is a dead bracket occupied by wintraders and 2 or 3 tryhard teams that spent weeks by spamming chat to log 3v3 and farming low teams for +2 rating up to their desired 2.2k (This is obviously not the way it's meant to work). So keeping ratings as they are and switching T2 weapon requirement to soloque or possibly at least merging 3v3 with soloque as mentioned above could help to make this system more reasonable.

    Crossrealm: Excellent idea that I'm looking forward to. Main questions are Shadowmourne and Soloqueue for Icecrown. From my point of view it would be nice to restrict use of SHM in arenas and allow it only for BGs and rest of world PvP if crossrealm happens. And soloque for Icecrown should be up to Icecrown server people if they want it or not. Their 3v3 could be at least connected to Blackrock soloque and 3v3. I don't think that Blackrock players wouldn't mint that in favour or shorter waiting times and more players to paly with and against.

    Transmog system: Technically well done system. From my perspective there are only 2 drawbacks. First one is arena case drop that contains random high rating transmogs where players receive items from top rating tier so it is normal to meet people with 1600 rating to have transmogrified top rating sets. This system is not rewarding for players that have put that much effort into grinding rating for transmogs. One solution would be complete removal of cases which is kind of drastic way and the other one is just limiting usability of items for transmog by checking rating from achievements and statistics for them.
    Second thing is that seemingly most transmog items and sets were given their demanded rating randomly so some great loking and wanted sets demand rating around 1800 and other not detailed and non popular sets need 2350. Sets could be sorted by their game addition time in order from Tier 1 to Tier 10 where PvP sets would be paralleled to their PvE equivalents.

    Arena Flush: I haven't met anybody who would disagree with 1 more flush on wednesday yet.
    Edited: December 4, 2018

  8. In this case wouldn't a merge between 3s and soloq destroy the purpose of soloq even more?
    I mean, ppl with a perfect 3s setup would farm players with a suboptimal soloq setups.
    No. First of all, soloq is much more active, so we can't really talk about farming if you play against an optimal team maybe 1 out of 10 times. This also often happens in regular soloq the way it is now. It's quite normal to play against a team which counters you.
    Secondly, comp isn't everything. People who can't play would still be defeated by soloq players. Skilled 3v3 teams would move up the ladder quickly and leave you behind, so again, I'm not sure how the whole farming thing would work. And after 2200 when it gets more serious, you won't be meeting them at all as I mentioned above.

    Your suggestion, on the other hand, makes the entire bracket into some kind of discount version of regular 3v3. It encourages making premade groups and leaving people who play suboptimal specs behind, it discourages playing solo queue as a solo player, which is the entire idea behind soloq.

  9. I believe that the question should not be about 2 formats of soloque like we have in poll at this topic. There should be list of viable composotions that are allowed to be teammed up together and comps that are restricted because of being generally "useless". For example ArmsWar/AnyRogue/Healer is straight loss setup as well as UnDK/RetriOrProtPala/other healer than resto shaman (I know that this means a little bit longer waiting times but this shouldn't be a problem if we consider possibilities of 3v3 merge and crossrealm arenas).
    This is a great idea. Either dps/dps or melee/caster is a classic example of black and white thinking. If we only allow caster/melee, the bracket will be too restricted and in case it gets merged with 3s, soloq would be destroyed by double melee cleaves. On the other hand dps/dps is the opposite extreme. The bracket is not restricted at all and it allows for some pretty useless comps. Banning some of the well-known useless comps rather than banning the optimal ones as was already suggested is the way to go in my opinion.

    Over 2200 rating would be NO mmr factor applied to search for teams. Simply people with ratings like for example 2250, 2500 and 2600 would get queued istantly together. On this level of gameplay everybody (except for bala druids) knows their stuff well enought and the difference amongst higher tier players is usually smaller than for example 1700 vs 1950 mmr player. That would be a reasonable price to pay for shortened waiting time at least from my perspective.
    Also something I can second. Above 2200 it's very inactive. It favors players who queue at the right time rather than the ones with a good winrate. I can have 8:2 and still lose rating if I don't queue during the active hours and even then it's partly based on luck in matchmaking. If we separate soloq into below 2200 and above 2200, randoms can still farm for gear and play the same way they used to and it will also allow for more competitive gameplay above 2200.


    Also, it has been mentioned many times, but we really do want more arena flushes. Everyone just queues 10 games and goes offline for half a week.

  10. No. First of all, soloq is much more active, so we can't really talk about farming if you play against an optimal team maybe 1 out of 10 times.
    I doubt that it gonna be 1 out of 10 times when Icecrown is in the arena pool.

    As far as I know its also not decided yet if ppl on Blackrock would start with 1500 rating upon creating a team.
    Its possible that they need to start with 0 rating to be in line with the other realms.
    So climbing the ladder to 2.2k might not be as easy as u think.

  11. I doubt that it gonna be 1 out of 10 times when Icecrown is in the arena pool.
    A quick look through the pvp ladder tells me that there are only 23 teams above 1500 on Icecrown in total. Out of those 23, maybe 5 or even less than that have enough winrate that it's reasonably safe to assume they would dominate against blackrock soloq players. I do not claim my numbers and opinions are one hundred percent correct, but I simply don't think making soloq into some kind of a weird hybrid would solve anything.

  12. just personall opinion and thinking :

    MMR SYSTEM:
    we all know its harder to grind rating in blackrock compared to icecrown , in blackrock you can have 100 wins and 100 lose your rating will still be 1500 , you need positif rating in order to advance, while in icecrown with that score you could be at least 2k -2.2k easy which is not fair for both players who are learning new classes/ or simply new to pvp/wotlk and for average players as well
    am not sur how butfixing this will prevent good players from facing new players who are still trying to gear up and will get rid of " 2k rating rivals/glads " which is pretty lame a glad title should be given to higher rates we need to make top teams reach 3k rating again

    3V3 DEADD :
    from my point of view solo q was never a real 3v3 bracket everything is random ( the people you play with , the comps , the mmr diference...etc ) + you can't even buy T2 wep out of it , but as long as solo q exist real 3v3 wont be really " alive " because why bother look for mates for 2 hours while you can join on your own instantly , also solo q is full of noobies who can't find real mates thats why you cant compare solo q rating to 3v3 rating the two are very different so stop trying to make solo q seem like its legit 3v3 it will never be
    what would make 3v3 alive again is either removing solo q entirely which would be a waste of a system you worked hard on ! or making solo q rating only usable to buy tmogs and trinkets or something like that , that would make players at least consider playing either 2v2 or 3v3,

    WINTRADING :
    also we need to do something about wintrading some of the top 3v3 teams reached 2k with wintrading and nothing was done to them even after many reports some thing needs to be done against this , maybe hire new gms who can give some of their time to our poor realm and make it great again or make a new report system or forum section for reporting blackrock wintraders because dont let me start about the waiting time of the ingame tickets

    SHADOWMOURNE :
    if blackrock players are gonna face all the shadowmournes of icecrown / lordaeran then making it avialable to obtain ingame in blackrock as well is a must , yes blackrock players are way superior and don't need it but dont forget that almost every top team in icecrown are blackrock players so it wouldnt be fair to everyone

  13. A quick look through the pvp ladder tells me that there are only 23 teams above 1500 on Icecrown in total. Out of those 23, maybe 5 or even less than that have enough winrate that it's reasonably safe to assume they would dominate against blackrock soloq players.
    Yes, Icecrowns 3s bracket is quite dead right now but that will change with cross-realm.
    I guess its pretty save to assume that when 3s would be more active due to a merge with soloq then there will also be more Icecrown teams queuing 3s.
    Its a chain reaction. The more active a bracket becomes the more ppl are going to queue for that bracket because there are always opponents to face. We can see that on Outlands 5s these days where everybody believed that its a dead bracket and now its almost as active as 2s.
    Edited: December 4, 2018

  14. just personall opinion and thinking :

    MMR SYSTEM:
    we all know its harder to grind rating in blackrock compared to icecrown , in blackrock you can have 100 wins and 100 lose your rating will still be 1500 , you need positif rating in order to advance, while in icecrown with that score you could be at least 2k -2.2k easy which is not fair for both players who are learning new classes/ or simply new to pvp/wotlk and for average players as well
    am not sur how butfixing this will prevent good players from facing new players who are still trying to gear up and will get rid of " 2k rating rivals/glads " which is pretty lame a glad title should be given to higher rates we need to make top teams reach 3k rating again

    3V3 DEADD :
    from my point of view solo q was never a real 3v3 bracket everything is random ( the people you play with , the comps , the mmr diference...etc ) + you can't even buy T2 wep out of it , but as long as solo q exist real 3v3 wont be really " alive " because why bother look for mates for 2 hours while you can join on your own instantly , also solo q is full of noobies who can't find real mates thats why you cant compare solo q rating to 3v3 rating the two are very different so stop trying to make solo q seem like its legit 3v3 it will never be
    what would make 3v3 alive again is either removing solo q entirely which would be a waste of a system you worked hard on ! or making solo q rating only usable to buy tmogs and trinkets or something like that , that would make players at least consider playing either 2v2 or 3v3,


    SHADOWMOURNE :
    if blackrock players are gonna face all the shadowmournes of icecrown / lordaeran then making it avialable to obtain ingame in blackrock as well is a must , yes blackrock players are way superior and don't need it but dont forget that almost every top team in icecrown are blackrock players so it wouldnt be fair to everyone
    Honestly you just stated just too many things that I strictly disagree with. It doesn't matter how high is your rating the highest one is simply rank 1 no matter if you have 3000 or 1800 rating. Only thing that can be measured is number of active teams you played at your pool with. Statement 'lets make 3k teams again' just doesn't make sense at all. It doesn't matter which exact value of rating has team rank 1 on other server if they play with completely different pool of players. Once you leave other teams behind by like 100+ rating you just slowly grind by +3. At this point it doesnt matter if you get over 3000 if you already left them so drastically. Most top teams still just decimate lowrate teams and build their win/loss ratio while they get their +2 each game.

    Your argument about soloque also seem to be invalid for me by the matter of logic. Soloque has certainly more random factor involved than classic 3v3 but that is where each player's improvisation and adaptation comes into the game. This bracket is even more challenging just because you have to adapt to current situation not just repeat same basic tactic for 1 simple 3v3 comp. People in soloque don't have 2700 rating just by fortune as well as people that struggle to get over 1900 after month of tryharding aren't just unlucky. This difference is basically a skill. With your logic applied you could same way just use an argument that you could get carried a lot in 3v3 by 2 very good teammates or just simply your comp which also includes other factors than what would you define as a raw skill. In my eyes 3v3 is definitely not superior to soloque. There should be no difference at rewards or equip especially when 3v3 is completely dead.

    No dispute over wintrading. This issue should be tracked and punished.

    To the shadowmourne's topic. Just to make this clear my main class is warrior so I'd definitely love to use shadowmourne to own all those classes that just can't use benefits of it. Nevertheless even the item level of this weapon indicates how much is this weapon over other classes' top 25HC LichKing weapons. Shadowmourne is simply unbalanced and it shouldn't be allowed to be used at arenas at all. I get it that most donors that spent so much money on that stuff would like to use it so warmane staff maybe won't have other options left than let it be used, well it is still significant imbalance. (And I say this as a warrior main)

  15. To the shadowmourne's topic. Just to make this clear my main class is warrior so I'd definitely love to use shadowmourne to own all those classes that just can't use benefits of it. Nevertheless even the item level of this weapon indicates how much is this weapon over other classes' top 25HC LichKing weapons. Shadowmourne is simply unbalanced and it shouldn't be allowed to be used at arenas at all. I get it that most donors that spent so much money on that stuff would like to use it so warmane staff maybe won't have other options left than let it be used, well it is still significant imbalance. (And I say this as a warrior main)
    Imo the best solution would be to disable the Smourne proc in arena.
    In this case Smourne would be as powerful as LK 25 hc weapons.

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