1. Alright well a day after raging i can now look at things objectivly, and try to get feedback to devs

    So after i've played a coupple battlegrounds with cross realm i came to some conclusions.

    Given that each battleground ends up having up to 5 Lordies* in all honesty it doesnt change much the expirience, although i am still personaly against it, as an icecrown player, this wont affect icecrown pvp scene all that much. However i wil llet Lordies talk about balance, and user expirience.

    That being said, i would like to give some advice and suggestions to warmane devs that can potentialy help you and its regarding toxicity.
    As you are aware this brought a lot of hatred and insoults etc.
    Although this isnt something that can be avoided completly i think that it can be mitigated.

    *Perhaps you should consider making server identity anonymus. I think if this is/was anabled or a part of, no one would have noticed.
    Even so in time people will simply forget about it being crossrealm, at leas us Crownies, as this doesnt impact our bgs that much, Icecrown is filled with people geard as Lordies and honestly i dont hink anyone would have noticed if it wasnt pointed out to us.
    I belive this will give players a level of anonimity, the sam way for example a 1.8kgs player jumps into 6.7kgs players Chopper.

    As far as the whole, gear matchmaking deal, i will say this: " Dont make this more complicated than it already is"
    Edited: December 19, 2018

  2. I definitely don't want to be overly negative, but yeah how did this not get shot down right away? The whole basis for the lordaeron server is that we want to avoid buyers and earn our gear the old fashioned way, so many people that have come to play on this server have come to do PvP and felt assured that they would not be outdone by people buying gear because of the restricted shop and the 1x rate driving away plebs that cant handle the real grind ;) But now this? im sorry its a rug pull out! I know its in testing but my opinion is solidly to not hold this, I cant think of pros. The queue's being faster doesnt mean anything when the group gives up and sits in graveyard game after game because "smashed by smourne, this sucks".

    I am sorry and I do of course appreciate mods taking strides to fix the frequency problem but this is a solution I believe that causes more harm than fixes, tbh its a lot like blizzards implementation of the RDF itself into WOTLK; it made grouping easier and faster, but had many cons that outweighed the pros, it eventually led to destruction of the real world and civility between players as a social function of the RDF, kind of like how cross realm promote toxicity because of lack of 'social server consequences", and then of course the gear fraction, this same thing happened as well in retail. I remember Detheroc combining into a cross realm, we were a year old server, we went up against servers 2 or 3 years old and it became impossible, this is like a flashback to that almost.

    People can talk as much as they want about how huge their nuts are, in reference to "smashing donos" in bgs, but the fact is the majority of the icecrown players gear is superior and earned in 1/4 of the time, It just doesnt feel fair at all really. Again the main point being, everyone on lordaeron went and grinded it out at 1x rate for the exact reason of wanting to be legit and not contend with 'credit card warriors'.

    Flame away, I know its seemingly unpopular at this point in the thread but I feel like it just seems so obvious.

    Edit : I should add, one thing ive noticed in bg's is almost all of the people that are responding "stop crying, kill them" to people that are saying typically 'destroyed by smourne, awesome" etc, are the lordaeron players that have been here for a long time are already 5k+, obviously you guys can hold your own. There *are* new players, like myself, who don't want to grind honor/etc get gear through PvP in this environment now. At least the footing was somewhat even before, I'd so much rather get decimated by someone who earned their purps lol. In summary for this point, this is something that will definitely appeal to the more built in crowd of 5k+ people that lordaeron already has, but its going to make it exceptionally difficult for any new players to be motivated to come here, which will eventually I think spell the death of the server. What person wants to grind up through 1x rate to contend with that now? Not many I'd imagine. Thank you for reading.
    Edited: December 19, 2018

  3. why ask here? make a poll and announce it in lord chat (you know, that yellow text that you cant turn off). i came back to twink on my 79 dk to have enough honor to get decent pvp gear once i hit 80 but my god, im outta here. who can expect grouping p2w with regular crowds to go well? when people started announcing in global chat bgs gone xrealm, there were waves of negative reaction. people did not seem to care about somewhat lower q times; many said they were being owned by kids who stole their moms credit card. yh, ill probly get faster q time as twink char but at 80... whats the point if you get charged by 6.5k n00b with lolmourne? what is the point on playing on x1 no item shop server then? unless you have secret plans for lord? because it aint making moneyz? anyway, im out unless this nonsense goes away.

    take my advice pl0x and do a poll - vast majority of ppl dont come to forums and you know that

  4. take my advice pl0x and do a poll - vast majority of ppl dont come to forums and you know that
    I gave a lot a thought about this and I ended up deciding that it wouldn't work.
    >If we did it on the forum, how would we prevent Icecrown players from taking over the poll?
    >Same applies to in-game, apply a level requirement for it?
    >If a level requirement is applied, then what about casual players who haven't leveled a character that far, or people who are new to the realm?
    And before you say it, this is a system that affects everyone, not just the people who strictly PvP.

    Of course it's not my decision as to whether or not we had a poll, but I don't think having one would accompish much due to the above. I also wonder what would be the point? Does it really do more harm than good? I personally don't believe so. I feel it's better to have a thread like this so we can see varying points of view and arguments on the matter from different angles. It's not necessary to have EVERYONE post. It's still possible to have many varying different points of view this way.

  5. I've played on IC for the past couple of years, mostly to PVP. Recently I started playing on Lordearon again to get away from the large number of BiS Shadowmourne players, so this news is disheartening to say the least. I have not gotten my character to that level yet, but I already know what that's like, only now it will be even worse since the Lordearon side has far fewer players with Shadowmourne. Since Lordearon players do not get to buy gear, they will never have a competitive number of s'mournes to make the battles even.

  6. Originally Posted by Mercy
    >If we did it on the forum, how would we prevent Icecrown players from taking over the poll?
    >Same applies to in-game, apply a level requirement for it?
    >If a level requirement is applied, then what about casual players who haven't leveled a character that far, or people who are new to the realm?
    i would say have only accounts with at least one 80 on lord to vote because your mentioned casual players... well, they are casual so... i hope you get the point lol. new players should probly research realm info b4 seriously taking on leveling their char(s) in there.

    i honestly think that xrealm only works with those realms that are more or less the same in general. we all know iceclown is as casual as they come while lord has more serious and goal oriented people who are willing to grind their teeth out for top tier gear because here it matters a lot; it really shows who you are as a player. seeing someone with 6k+ in lord is a rare sight indeed; most are 5.2 - 5.7 and you group them with 6.3+ skill is one thing but if raw numbers are against you, theres nothing you can do

  7. your mentioned casual players... well, they are casual so... i hope you get the point lol. new players should probly research realm info b4 seriously taking on leveling their char(s) in there.
    And before you say it, this is a system that affects everyone,
    Excluding anyone is not ideal though.

  8. Dear Mercy,

    may I inquire why are you not responding to that specific point that numerous people made in this and previous, now locked, post regarding gear differences and the mindset that did not take it into consideration while developing tthis feature?

  9. Mercy I am very glad to see an active mod in here, i really appreciate your responses and presence. I hope you read my post above, at no point am i trying to win or 'score points', i just feel the system is very unfair. We came to lord specifically to avoid the "buyers". Most people here feel it ruins the game, thus why we are here in the first place. I believe the people this benefits are basically the bored, vocal minority of 5k+ GS players sitting around with nothing to do and they want fast queues regardless of the consequences for people that arent in their shoes ie, the gearing and new player base. As an incoming level 80, trying to gear up in that atmosphere that you just spent 80 levels to get to, where you will just get destroyed by people that have capped and acquired superior gear in 1/7th the amount of time, it just feels very unfair and it goes against the ethos of the 1x hardcore lord server. especially when the previous month or however long its taken you, it's basically been done in the name of " this is worth it because my time is equally proportioned to my gear like everyone elses on this server". Only to find at the end of that ordeal that you have to contend with people that get their gear through either zero investment,(their credit card) or 1/7ths the investment it took you. This demotivates people to roll on Lord i believe, which will eventually lead to its death.

    But! i should add as a caveat to this, i understand and accept fully that this is a *free* and *private* server that we are all agreeing to play on. There actually is *zero* obligation for them to do anything, we are all lucky enough that this even exists. If this has to persist then so be it, I would only ever quit if they merged the actual servers, since I have not much of an interest in pursuing PvP explicitly in this expansion. Im just pointing my thoughts out on what I think that consequences of doing this will be. The largest being, a demotivating factor to the potential incoming player base of Lord. I just cant see people being motivated to gear here if their plan is to PvP if the BG's and (arenas eventually if we go down this path?) mixed.

    Thank you again for the thread.
    Edited: December 20, 2018

  10. Mercy I am very glad to see an active mod in here, i really appreciate your responses and presence. I hope you read my post above, at no point am i trying to win or 'score points', i just feel the system is very unfair. We came to lord specifically to avoid the "buyers". Most people here feel it ruins the game, thus why we are here in the first place. I believe the people this benefits are basically the bored, vocal minority of 5k+ GS players sitting around with nothing to do and they want fast queues regardless of the consequences for people that arent in their shoes ie, the gearing and new player base. As an incoming level 80, trying to gear up in that atmosphere that you just spent 80 levels to get to, where you will just get destroyed by people that have capped and acquired superior gear in 1/7th the amount of time, it just feels very unfair. especially when the previous month or however long its taken you, it's basically been done in the name of " this is worth it because my time is equally proportioned to my gear like everyone elses on this server". Only to find at the end of that ordeal that you have to contend with people that gear their gear through either zero investment, or 1/7ths the investment it took you. This demotivates people to roll on Lord i believe, which will eventually lead to its death.
    as a fresh 80, what's the difference between getting 1/2 shot by a 5.8k gs player on lord. or a 6.3k gs player from icecrown. either way you're dead. how long the other person spent getting the gear doesn't change that.

  11. I agree to an extent, id rather get smashed by someone who has at least received the gear by earning it to be totally honest lol. It still also doesnt change the fact that there will be a huge imbalance between IC and Lord, just because one is true does not make the other false suddenly, just as you refuting a part of what i said doesnt make it invalid as a whole.

  12. Mercy I am very glad to see an active mod in here, i really appreciate your responses and presence. I hope you read my post above, at no point am i trying to win or 'score points', i just feel the system is very unfair.
    [...]

    Thank you again for the thread.
    I'm reading everyone's posts. I'm trying not to interfere with the discussion or people's inputs, because I want the focus to be on the topic and not on whatever I may have to say. Also keep in mind that I am not in a position to make any sorts of decisions regarding cross-realm features. I'm just here as a forum moderator trying to facilitate the conversation.

  13. If every player from Lordaeron or Icecrown would be for or against this.. I think there will be at least 8K different players giving their thoughts here not just a handful from a total population of around ~16K (Ice+Lord). I bet most players thoughts in both realms are like. "Ohhh cross-realm bgs and arenas".. cool! or Ah well what the hell" and move on. With the people stating their reasons for and against, i guess The staff has a pretty good picture by now. Either go ahead with the project or scrap it ( if 10K+ players come to the forums against it).

  14. As an Icecrown pvp-focused player (Mootykins) (I literally live in a 2D dimension where swords carry more weight than the actual law of the land), this is a change that I thoroughly disagree with. The argument that only "real PvPers" want this change diminishes everyone who is not playing 15 man premades with a specific guild and a specific group of people who absolutely want this change to happen because then they actually get pops.

    *Premades are finally alive again, instead of not facing a premade who worked hard for their gear under the same circumstances as you yourself did you will be facing 3 times bigger guilds who have all had an easier time generally speaking to get better gear than all of you. Also, this change doesn't just affect a few specific people who play alot of premades, if changes things for everyone. The small 3 man group running BG's trying to be competitive from Lordaeron will get absolutely annihilated, not to mention the Icecrown players who DON'T want to play versus people with relatively low gearscore. If I could pick between playing against a Lordaeron premade with a 700 gs lower average and a fullbis premade from Icecrown, I would pick the Icecrown team 10/10 times.

    *Que times are now significantly lower, as such, it may be a good idea to make dungeons and BG's cross faction. This will decrease the que times by quite a bit, especially if you enjoy solo queing.

    *Only aspect currently not enjoyable, is the hate between Lord and ICC horde, who would have guessed that people who spent three times the ammount of time leveling up and even more getting worse gear than their Icecrown counterparts would be upset. And who would have guessed the Icecrown players would not want to play with or against players who they don't know, are never going to interact with in a guild basis and who are worse geared than them on average every single BG? This is something that I can live with and I knew was going to happen.

    So next time before starting to flame about how bad this change is for pvpers, ask a real pvper first. If you really claim you are a pvp player and you still don't want to or enjoy playing in big scale premades versus people who you will either demolish or get absolutely annihilated by then you're a decent human being and I love you, bless up play the game whichever way you want to play it my guy, don't let anyone tell you that you're not a "real pvper".

    Finally, I want to say that I played on Lordaeron and then I realized that the only fun to be had on that server was streamsniping levlers in Hellfire until they quit playing the game because of sheer frustration and anger combined. Stay woke.
    *First of all I never claimed I was the only pvp player or whatever, I simply responded to posts that dramatized that all pvpers are ****ed by this change, and me and my friends (not only guildies, all good pvpers are welcome in our premades) enjoy this change. I understand that some will be for and some against, but I don't want people to generalize and say all lord pvpers are screwed because they feel that way.

    *I don't know what you didn't understand from my topic, but we played against Shadowmournes and Knight Templars (only guild on ICC I know) and we won, and didn't lose a single game. So I don't know how you got the "get annihilated by ICC" part because that never happened and I am pretty sure it never will.

    *So you just repeated my comment about the hate between the players of the two realms, I don't understand what your point was there. The thread is about saying what you like and don't, not about finding the reasons behind every aspect.

    *Lastly, I played on Icecrown and I even donated there for a weapon, but after less than a month I was back in Lordaeron, just because I enjoyed it far more, so your comment about "only way to have fun" in Lordaeron is completely ridiculous, brings no value to the discussion and assumes everyone has your mindset, which fortunately is not true.

  15. I agree to an extent, id rather get smashed by someone who has at least received the gear by earning it to be totally honest lol. It still also doesnt change the fact that there will be a huge imbalance between IC and Lord, just because one is true does not make the other false suddenly, just as you refuting a part of what i said doesnt make it invalid as a whole.
    wasn't trying to make anything you said invalid. was genuinely curious as to what you felt the difference was. I don't necessarily agree nor disagree with crossrealm being a good thing, depends on what side of the fence you play on. mainly just keeping an eye on the discussion.

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