Lordaeron & Icecrown Cross-Realm Discussion

[Chonins]

You've just deleted all the constructive criticism against crossrealm and left only posts that agree with it, WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT?

Instead of answering to community you're just shutting up everyone who refuse to accept your point of view. It's a joke.

[Obnoxious]

You've just deleted all the constructive criticism against crossrealm and left only posts that agree with it, WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT?

Instead of answering to community you're just shutting up everyone who refuse to accept your point of view. It's a joke.

No, I didn't, I removed precisely the type of post I described and nothing else (in fact even posts in favor of the system), but as you continuously show you aren't about to change your tone and discuss maturely, now accusing me of "deleting all constructive criticism," let's see if people will take my post seriously with an example.

[Manevrata]

As a lordaeron very pvp focused player(Tazu) (I only do pvp and VoAs, no other raids), this is a change that I gladly welcome. So the argument that pvp players have no incentive to play on Lordaeron is very biased I believe.
*Premades are finally alive again, we did full 15 man premades yesterday and we won every single bg (dominated 95% of them).
*Que times are now significantly lower, as a player who doesn't enjoy playing solo in bgs, be it Lord or Icecrown, I had to wait 15-20 mins for my 5 man premade to enter bgs, whereas now we wait 6-7 mins on average for a 15-man premade.
*Only aspect currently not enjoyable, is the hate between Lord and ICC horde, with Lord mocking them for paying for their gear, and ICC mocking us for being dead (which is obv. not true). This is something that I can live with and I knew was going to happen.

So next time before starting to flame about how bad this change is for pvpers, ask a real pvper first. If you really claim you are a pvp player and you still don't have people to do bgs with (even if it's 1 person), then something is wrong with you.


Finally, I want to say that I played on Icecrown and for me personally Lordaeron is a far superior server - exactly because it means working for everything you need twice as hard. If you think about it, the server is now even more challenging and it is something I am looking forward to.

[Jhenna0]

Cross-realm bg is okay.

Queue times arent as much of an improvement as some people think it is, average queue time for 1st bg for me was around 15 minutes, after that I'd queue right after bg ended and I'd get into the next significantly faster. The queue times now are 3-4 minutes.

We have AV and IoC now yey but I never really liked those bgs, and we have those alot now, so thats a disadvantage for me.

I play with people I don't know, and I don't know if I will eventually get to know them all, on lordaeron we had a smaller comunity everyone knew eachother, we could count on eachother and know what to expect from them, like if I got Txals or Ibukai on my team I knew who I'd support and if I got Ezuro or Acharnachas on the enemy side I knew I'd have a very hard time, now I know nothing about the people I'm playing with.

The skill from the icecrowners, contrary to my expectations, is high, its a disadvantage on the short run but an advantage on the long run, bgs on lordaeron were much more chill and relaxing, now they are hardcore, its something I'll end up getting used to and I will eventually learn how to play better because of this.

The gear is weird, Icecrowners are all either below 2.5k gs or above 6k gs. I even found some people with less than 2k gs, how is that even physically possible: to reach lvl 80 with that gear? people say lordaeron leveling is "hardcore" compared to icecrown but maybe its the other way around. And the chances of winning a bg depend on the amount of naked team mates you have.

The damage is significantly higher, in one AV I tried to support my team in a clash in the middle and my teammates started dying, one by one, in a split second each, not sure how I'm gonna heal that, and idk about you but I didn't see that happend before on lordaeron. On smaller bgs I could keep my whole team alive in clashes by myself before, now I have to depend on my other healers which is an improvement in a way.

The balance between sides is bad, im not saying the balance between shadowmourne and not shadowmourne kind of bull****, when one team is stronger than the other they don't just win, they devastate, and before on lordaeron I felt like games were more balanced (horde says they lost 70% of games back then so idk), now its not so easy to get a balanced bg, I did get one WSG yesterday tho where my team got out winning and then a shaman and a mage started hexxing/polying me so well almost like they were on discord and due to that we ended up losing which was really cool.

Lordaeron can do premades now, before it wasn't really worth it because we could end up together anyway through solo queue, and while it may sound like a bad idea to premade against icecrowners, horde did it yesterday with great success so thats an advantage. (can someone tell me tho how to make a premade with >5 players? maybe AVenabler? but didn't warmane remove bg ids?)

And these are my first impressions, The pros even out the cons, I don't mind cross-realm but I don't welcome it either.

[Grungir]

Bcz my opinions about crossrealm bgs are not allowed on this forum. I will tell you what is the biggest problem. Since you moved bgs and instances on different server then lordaeron. Dcing in middle of bossfight means you get teleported outside of instance when you log back. This is a gamebreaking thing considering you dont have a 5 mins without someone in raid dcing. As this is a private server. Congratulation warmane.....

[Zirusitavia]

I think a lot of the frustration about this change comes from the players no longer having a CHOICE if we want to play with Item Shop in PvP or not.

I played a lot on the Outlands server, but I eventually stopped because I could not handle all the item store weaponss. I mainly PvP, and while I can see other people loving running around with their Cataclysm Edge, or even defeating someone with it, it is certainly not for me. It creates a schism between the other players and me where I am never sure if I got killed by someone who farmed for days trying to get his weapon and armor... or by someone with 2 days playtime total who bought a cool epic on the shop. This was a huge turn off for me and disrupted gameplay a lot on the Outlands server.

I went to ICC to try out that, because I love WoW and I still want to play it even though I do not agree with the dev decisions on Outlands. But here I was met with exactly the same problem: Shadowmourne, Heroic weapons on toons with green bracers and leggings, insane gear score leaps from 3k to 6k GS, rarely meeting people in the middle. I again made the choice to not play anymore, as the balance of the server is not something I can support. And bear in mind, all that I've complained about now is solely the item shops disruptance on PvP.

Now, Lordaeron. Oh boy, this was the realm for me. I had the choice: Play on the 12k pop server and deal with the Shadowmournes or pull up my skirt and level through 1x exp with the goal of getting to play WotLK without item shop interference for PvP. The choice was obvious for me, Lordaeron was EXACTLY the server I wanted and needed, and my time spent on this server has been my most enjoyable WoW playtime in a long, long while. But when I saw this change it all started falling apart. Let me ask you, devs, without intentional condescending undertones or without meaning to point fingers: Where are people like me to go? If you wish to mainly PvP, but cannot stand the item shop and how it effects the game (which goes deeper than just getting one-shotted by warriors every once in a while, at least to me) then what server should we play on then? Before there was a choice. You could chose the Item Shop meta or you could chose the Blizzard meta. Now there is no choice anymore and the removal of that choice, I think, spawns a lot of frustration in many people, myself included.

I really wish you would keep the two realms seperate for reasons explained above.

Have a good day and thank you for reading.

[Sancta93]

-Shared battlegrounds don't bother me. At the end of the day battlegrounds are not a measure of skill and i do not mind playing with people who have more/less gear then me. I think nobody ever when inspecting a player with 50k, 100k, 150k, 200k or even more HK's whent "oh look at this good player".

I honestly do not care whether people think that I'm good or not. Neither should you or anyone else. This is an online game, not university or work.

It's more of a grind then anything else and to be honest getting 3v1'd, 4v1'd, 5v1'd in battlegrounds by people who are geared to the bone won't make any difference. Getting one shot by 3 players with 6.6k GS or by 3 players with 5.8k gs won't matter if you get my drift, you will probably die in both situations (if not facing complete *****s).

It actually does matter. If I, as a single player, can survive a group (>1 players) it's one player of my team and multiple players of their team not capping a base/flag. Furthermore, it's not only about me fighting multiple opponents...

That being said, if the shared battlegrounds improve the quality of life for both Icecrown and Lordaeron players i don't mind it. Battlegrounds are for grinding out honor to buy items, for casual PVP'ing and fun.
-Arenas are a different story and is what i'm interested in here. The arenas are the real deal and a show of skill a person has. Whats going to happen if you merge arenas? Will players from Lordaeron have to queue and play against players from Icecrown and compete with their level of gear? How are you going to create equal ground for players to compete on?

I don't understand this paragraph at all. What gives you the right to decide what the Blizz devs intended BGs for? What makes you think that everyone sees BGs as 'casual'? Why shouldn't arenas be considered as casual content, too, if bgs can? Some people tend to say WoW is a PvE focused game.

I'm playing this game for fun. I'm trying to improve my gameplay and I enjoy when stuff works my way. Reflecting/Grounding Death Coils feels exciting. Outplaying my opponent and winning a game with it is what makes me play this game.
This doesn't change when the area I'm in changes. Rating only reflects how good my team played.

For example, things that feel equally good are:
-Beating my opponent in a 1v1 after our partners died in a 2v2
-Winning a duel
-Killing some 80 in wpvp who attacked me first
-Destroying a FC in WSG, killing a player who's guarding a flag in AB, etc.

With this said, it becomes clear that (to me) all arguments for x-realm bgs are also valid for arenas. Unless you're earning money for your rating I suspect you're playing for similar reasons, which leaves the impression that you're only okay with x-realm bgs, because you're not playing them (although you would oppose them if you did).

Conclusion: If you do x-realm pvp, do it for both, arenas and bgs. I don't see why they should be applied to only one of those.

[Plsno]

This is regarding cross-realm BG's and i play on Icecrown only. Ques are faster now, more bg's means more honor points (win or loose), faster gearing for those farming pvp gears. I was only able to do a couple of bg's yesterday but had a blast of a time playing with and against players from lordaeron. Most of the players from lordaeron on horde side i met were good and not toxic. Regarding toxic behavior there is always gonna be those few people ( both realms), just ignore and play and have fun. Bg's are gonna be imbalanced matter what, sometimes full geared vs not so geared, sometimes no healer on one side and 4-5 heals on the other but we do get lucky sometimes when both the factions are balanced. Someone said in the above posts that in bg's there are gonna be players either full of 2k gs guys or 6k+ guys, its true. Gear matters to some extent, skill+medium gear > 6k geared no tactics guys and bis+skilled = beast. Anyways teamwork matters the most, to have fun and try win against superior opponents, i guess the same theory applies to arenas as well. Also i think someone posted that bg's should be matched according to the level of gear which might be a bad idea because people may just remove some of their gears and que and when in bg's equip their full set. WOTLK wont be upgrading to a diff expac so just give it some time and almost everyone will be geared or near geared and all will be well.

Regarding arenas i think its a bit too early for cross-realm. I know the top players from lorda will welcome the cross -realm arenas most of the general players from lorda will be unhappy, and i don't need to say why. lorda was launched around late 2015 but still people werent expecting this thing to happen and bosses were OP xD. So give them something like a year or so (make an announcement) and then start cross-realm arenas in this way players wont have much reason to complain about.

[truthwow1]

Also i think someone posted that bg's should be matched according to the level of gear which might be a bad idea because people may just remove some of their gears and que and when in bg's equip their full set.

Not if ppl are matched based on the gear that they have in their inventory.
As far as I know such a gear check system, which takes also the gear in your inventory into account, already exists for RDF HC so technically speaking it should be possible to implement that for BGs aswell.

A different option would be to check only the currently equiped gear but make it impossible to change any gear while beeing in the BG queue or inside the BG. A similiar system is already implemented for arena on Blackrock. There used to be a ilvl cap of 270 for arena and it was impossible to change the gear to a higher ilvl while in the arena queue.

Regaring the actual BGs based on gear:
Players could be matched with others in their gearscore range. For expl there could be three BG pools: First one for players with 0 - 4,9k GS. Second one for players with 5k - 5,9k GS and last one 6k - 7k GS.
Like that all the newcomers would be in the first BG pool, the veterans of Lordaeron and the starter geared players of Blackrock in the second BG pool and the Icecrown donors in the third BG pool.
After waiting a set amount of time in the BG queue the gearscore match range could be extended so ppl don't have to wait too long at off-times.
A similar gear check system could also be considered for cross-realm arena between the three wotlk realms.

[Evangelion]

Can someone tell me tho how to make a premade with >5 players? maybe AVenabler? but didn't warmane remove bg ids?)

AV Enabler, specific queues still have ID's.

[Autairlol]

As a pure PvP player(alot of retail and now here), cross-realm is very important for PvP-ers, those guys who say "it killing PvP" they aren't real PvP-ers, they just hate donors and thats all, gear isn't that matter if you have skill with your class.
1+ here for cross-realm, can't wait for arenas. :)

[duindaer]

One time, in Molten, i was in Arathi (the region, not the pvp) and talking with a lv80 retri pally. Both of us were Dwarf. Ganked for a 5 Ally team between l45 to lv80. I died. But this Dwarf Palli was a machine,a god. The Fight went to 30 minutes, and the pally didnt die. He won, then ress me. Because i was in ghost form, like a child seeing a movie.

Since that day I learned that more than outnumbered or gear, the skill its the epic variable en pvp.

---
Now, some distortions to that context and metadata from warmane team can be extremely helpfull. The most important is the damage imput.

*If we consider that the distribution of SM its equal in Ally and Horde, the BGs need to be equaly distributed.
If not, and the BGs were, example, Lordaeron vs Icecrown in a PVP because of the "RNG God", Lordaeron going to lose. Its possible this in this crossrealm thing?

*The rate of point the player win need to be equal in a crossrealm PvP.
2 new and noob lv79 going to farm points to the first item for lv80 PvP. In Lordaeron this not happend (too much time waiting for a pvp mach or never pop up one), but in Icecrown lot of players use the "frozen in lv79" to excel in farm pvp points (twink play). So at basis, the noobs lv80 from both realm had different start points.

*The acces for more damage need to be fair.
Icecrown player can use daily points to buy equipment, like trinkets, rings, amulets and PvP weapons. Lordaeron people, no.

Grosso modo, in Lordaeron PvP start at lv 80 and the curve of learning & knowledge goes in parallel to the PvP clothing lv up. Icecrown has a quick start in PvP (lv 10 - Lv79 its common) and the the curve of learning & knowledge differe from the PvP clothing lv up.

Distribution of PvP clothing, rate points and acces to damage need to be consistent in an even fight.

[Awakeener]

Cross-realm absolutely yes +1 (for BG's)

Maybe we can add an options: 1) only on server where you have a char 2) crossrealm

Just an idea how to solve a lot of discussion of PvE players.


Arena crossrealms is a whole new story - there really needs to be some added restrictions, because of gear unbalance...

[truthwow1]

Maybe we can add an options: 1) only on server when you have char 2) crossrealm

I'm afraid that this wont work.
Players that choose option one would wait forever in queue because the PvP playerbase of Lordaeron isn't big enough to divide it into two BG groups.

[PuniheR2204]

I have just say big + for this xrealm, i am lordaeron player (1 of that realy play pvp there) and i can say that this xrealm helped us to not waith 40+ min like it happened many time before, also i dont see any unbalance there, did few bgs yday and win rate was like 50:50, in my opinion about this xrealm should cry just ppl that dont know how to play pvp, so their excuses is icecrown ppl have bis gear, so what, if you play smart you can beat them whatever gear they have, even if i play some range in bg i go full pve, so there is no such a difference.