1. Worst things about retail?

    Not sure how many you played retail, but it is abysmal to me how bad the design has gotten just to appeal to "casuals".

    I mean most of you here are casuals who cannot bind two spells together.

    But anyway i was doing a lot of WSG lately and my biggest reason for quitting retail was LOS was broken, non existent. And i'm not even kidding, at one point i was shooting a person thru two houses.
    I made tickets about this and the response i have gotten was:
    "Its working as intended. Most people have trouble and are unable to cast so we made line of sight more accessible." WTF?

    So basically someone is lazy enough to press A key three times and then cast.

    It's quite sad that warmane has better, lets call it design then retail.

    And no, its not the expansion. I remember that **** being broken on wotlk as well. But i would agree that its way ****ing worse now.

    I would list a dozen more as many things annoyed me to my very core, not because i personally have annoyance with it, it is because i cannot believe a person who is payed to do their job decided that some random **** would be a good idea.

  2. I haven't played Retail since early Legion due to hardware issues.

    But one of the worst things about retail that I hated was Trade Chat always being about politics, it is probably just as bad in global here sometimes.

  3. The reason I quit like half a year into legion was the horrible class design. My destro rotation was basically spamming shadowburn. That brought me to 2.3k 3v3 rating. Outplaying is barely a thing anymore, since all speccs got dumbed down so incredibly. When I lose an arena match here I basically always know that I did somewhere a mistake or at least that I COULD have won that match if I played out of my mind. In Legion I often just got charged by 2 melees, used all my def cds at the same time (which is stupid as hell) and still died through all of them. The balance and class design was/is just so frustrating that I had to get out of there as a player who believes that skill should be #1 priority. Going into a match, doing the same stuff you always do and hope that it results in a win that time is just crap
    Political chat was the best thing about late expansions of WoW imho, but that also got less and less on my server since people started massquitting on my 99% pvp server for obvious reasons

  4. I was playing wod and legion. Wod was just boring, sitting alone in garnizon, sending troops in an minigame, doing dailys. Meh.

    Legion, well:,
    1) artifact weapons, totally not unique and interesting
    2) characters ability were pruned - every char had 1-2 Burton rotation, i literally had hard time finding even 1 interesting spec
    3) world quest with gear, increased by Your current ilvl - world q required 0 skill, just join pt and go afk, yet giving you better and better epic items. Yea, totally feel like you deserved them
    4) random RAID Finder - just que, wait, rollface aby RAID w/o brain
    5) totally not challenging lvling
    6) lvling char w/o heirlooms - que for rdf,not even able to cast one FB - full heirloom chars are just running 1 hitting everything
    7)overall politic, hyping an ****ty pets cosmetics etc like they are worth anything when half of the gameplay was trafić
    8) scalling and Item adjust to Your current spec, in feral Your items had Agi, change to balance, bam, its with intel. Braindead mechaniczne
    9) many many more. I literally wasted last 2 months of my abo and came back to warmane

  5. 2) characters ability were pruned - every char had 1-2 Burton rotation, i literally had hard time finding even 1 interesting spec
    I agree with most of your points, but ofc they can be debated because retail population have shifted on my opinion in what they want or not, but i wanna address class rotation one. There was a lot of pruning that is true, but most of the pruned spells was utility. I think the idea behind Legion class rotation was more about passives, procks, decisions and timing when you do your rotation, not that much about what number of buttons you press.

    For example DH havos Momentum build, when you get bonus damage when you use your movement abilities for 4 sec. You actually had to prepare and get the buff only when you are also able to use other abilities and you had to watch out with your position.

    WW Monk rotation was also very interesting, their mastery was you get x amount of damage bonus as long as you don't repeat same abilities + Hit Combo talent which is the same think as the mastery and this make their rotation insanely fun. You had 5 to 6 buttons rotation with 3 cds. And because sometimes you was in situation when there is nothing to press on that will not repeat it self you had to use something extra in your rotation just to keep your hit combo stacks going, like spinning crane kick or jade lightning. Serenity talent was also very fun and really hard to use, you can tell right away which monk is good and who is bad by how well they use serenity. Their AOE was also very fun, hitting different individual targets give you bonus dmg stack to your spinning crane kick.

    Unholy DK is good example as well. The rotation was pretty complex and very very easy to **** up. ****ing up Soul reaper haste stacks and ****ing up your dps because of it was very easy to do. And they had plenty of buttons to play.

    Another good example is Disc priest, they make them so Disc is pretty much a dps and by dps-ing they heal the raid. And if used correctly they had by far the strongest AOE healing in the game.

    Ofc there was some really braindead classes, like frost DK, but that happen in every expansion. Vanilla had many 1 button rotation classes, TBC hunter and warlock 1 button spam, WOTLK had arcane mage, many other classes rotation was 3 to 4 buttons. I will say in Legion some of the classes was the most fun they was ever been. Specifically UnholyDK, WW monk, DPriest i don't think there was even been time in WOW when this classes was more fun to play then legion.
    Edited: March 6, 2019

  6. 8) scalling and Item adjust to Your current spec, in feral Your items had Agi, change to balance, bam, its with intel. Braindead mechaniczne
    So you rather waste bag space for multiple gear sets for each spec?

    That just sounds dumb imo.

  7. The reason I quit like half a year into legion was the horrible class design. My destro rotation was basically spamming shadowburn. That brought me to 2.3k 3v3 rating. Outplaying is barely a thing anymore, since all speccs got dumbed down so incredibly. When I lose an arena match here I basically always know that I did somewhere a mistake or at least that I COULD have won that match if I played out of my mind. In Legion I often just got charged by 2 melees, used all my def cds at the same time (which is stupid as hell) and still died through all of them. The balance and class design was/is just so frustrating that I had to get out of there as a player who believes that skill should be #1 priority. Going into a match, doing the same stuff you always do and hope that it results in a win that time is just crap
    Political chat was the best thing about late expansions of WoW imho, but that also got less and less on my server since people started massquitting on my 99% pvp server for obvious reasons
    I was actually not as disappointed as a resto shaman. Every healer spec was more fun than dps, felt like i could outplay and do more.
    But classes are utter ****, mage for example plays the same on all 3 specs, just different color.
    You have one or two correct talent trees with some alteration to pvp talents and thats it.

    So what you are left with is everyone playing same spec, with exact same talents and everyone being around same skill, because you cannot go above an average player because skill cap and skill floor are basically the same. Fun times

  8. So you rather waste bag space for multiple gear sets for each spec?

    That just sounds dumb imo.
    I think the argument here is that players and class specs lost their identity. You are not really Billy the feral druid if you can respec to Balance at any moment and be fully geared. I personally am fan of the new system when your stats change with your spec, but i can see how someone can make the argument that this take a lot of the game identity and ruins a lot of RPG elements. Its similar to should we have ammo for bows,guns in WOW or not. Obviously it's more convenient to not have them, but they also add a lot to the game immersion and are strong RPG element.
    Edited: March 6, 2019

  9. I think the argument here is that players and class specs lost their identity. You are not really Billy the feral druid if you can respec to Balance at any moment and be fully geared. I personally am fan of the new system when your stats change with your spec, but i can see how someone can make the argument that this take a lot of the game identity and ruins a lot of RPG elements. Its similar to should we have ammo for bows,guns in WOW or not. Obviously it's more convenient to not have them, but they also add a lot to the game immersion and are strong RPG element.
    In terms of removing things or changing things, some of the things did make sense honestly.

    I mean a hunter uses mana....why? The change happened in I think Cataclysm, if not MoP to focus which is basically energy but you can generate it after using it up. Honestly it made gearing a lot easier cause now you know you actually don't need intellect.

    Let's take Disengage hunter ability in Wrath, last I knew, you could only use it in combat. However that changed in I think Cata/MoP (I haven't played hunter in forever on Cata) and now you can use it any time which just made sense, it allows a player to do things they couldn't before hand.

    I'm not well versed with other classes since I mained hunter from MoP - Legion. But the over all change to design (to an extent) actually made classes a lot better overall. And to be honest, a lot of the skills are rather redundant pre MoP. I mean a paladin can have like 2 or 3 healing skills that have different cast times and heal the same (saw this in MoP I think) and boom it got trimmed down.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't like pruning classes to to the point they play the same as other classes, but I think people need to understand some of the changes are good overall.

  10. In terms of removing things or changing things, some of the things did make sense honestly.

    I mean a hunter uses mana....why? The change happened in I think Cataclysm, if not MoP to focus which is basically energy but you can generate it after using it up. Honestly it made gearing a lot easier cause now you know you actually don't need intellect.

    Let's take Disengage hunter ability in Wrath, last I knew, you could only use it in combat. However that changed in I think Cata/MoP (I haven't played hunter in forever on Cata) and now you can use it any time which just made sense, it allows a player to do things they couldn't before hand.

    I'm not well versed with other classes since I mained hunter from MoP - Legion. But the over all change to design (to an extent) actually made classes a lot better overall. And to be honest, a lot of the skills are rather redundant pre MoP. I mean a paladin can have like 2 or 3 healing skills that have different cast times and heal the same (saw this in MoP I think) and boom it got trimmed down.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't like pruning classes to to the point they play the same as other classes, but I think people need to understand some of the changes are good overall.
    But you are talking about class design changes, i was talking about things the classes had that don't really have anything to do with class design, but make sense in RPG prospective and i think this was the point the guy was trying to make when he was talking about gear scaling and stats changes. Hunters keeping bullets or arrow in their bags so they can shot with them does make sense and its very immersive. You can say the same thing for armor pieces. The way they use to be was every piece had unique name and was for specific roles or specs. Here is a example Apocalypse's Advance is bis boots for all plate dps classes. You know the piece is unique and have unique purpose. it had its own identity. Now go and tell me BIS boost in Legion. You cant do it, because any boots who are titanforged and have the correct stats for you can be BIS. There is zero identity in them and on top of that they can be used for multiple specs . For example ret, holy and prot paladin use same boots.
    Edited: March 6, 2019

  11. Worst things about retail? People like Skoobydoo hate the fact that there are no BiS shop on retail. But no worries Skoobydoo, atleast they got store mounts.

    The worst thing about retail for me is hmm I would say RNG loot.

  12. But you are talking about class design changes, i was talking about things the classes had that don't really have anything to do with class design, but make sense in RPG prospective and i think this was the point the guy was trying to make when he was talking about gear scaling and stats changes. Hunters keeping bullets or arrow in their bags so they can shot with them does make sense and its very immersive. You can say the same thing for armor pieces. The way they use to be was every piece had unique name and was for specific roles or specs. Here is a example Apocalypse's Advance is bis boots for all plate dps classes. You know the piece is unique and have unique purpose. it had its own identity. Now go and tell me BIS boost in Legion. You cant do it, because any boots who are titanforged and have the correct stats for you can be BIS. There is zero identity in them and on top of that they can be used for multiple specs . For example ret, holy and prot paladin use same boots.
    Remember, you're talking about a game that uses magic as the core fundamental of the world. You're honestly telling me that hunter weapons (for example) have to still fire bullets and what not? Which btw has precedence due to the legendary bow that didn't use ammo in BC.

  13. Worst thing about retail is definitely the players.

  14. Worst things about retail? People like Skoobydoo hate the fact that there are no BiS shop on retail. But no worries Skoobydoo, atleast they got store mounts.
    You just mad cuz my character cost more then your house :D

  15. You just mad cuz my character cost more then your house :D
    I couldnt care less what vendor players like you think. But I quess I cant blame ya, Warmane created this problem by encouraging people of wrong reasons to donate to this once great thing of the past. I did donate when Lordaeron came out, and my regret is that I didnt give em more so that I wouldnt have to play against players like you.

    Well ill tell you one thing, even after all Warmane has done, Ill donate a hell a lot more to Warmane next time to keep blizzlike server BLIZZLIKE if Warmane ever decides to create a new Lordaeron 2.0 server!

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