WotLK Horde BG win rate after cross-realm

[Razerx]

80% of alli are human, and the remaining 20% are the three classes that cannot roll human. 49 out of 50 top 2s teams are alli and every one has at least one human, most have 2 (war/pall anyone??). And yet, we still do NOTHING. We talk about it endlessly, but no one every does anything. Alli ***** because of endless Qs. Horde *****es because we lose 75-90% of bgs and arenas. And yet??? "We can't mess with raicials'. FFS. I don't care HOW you fix it, but for the love of all that is holy, do SOMETHING. Both sides are unhappy. Add three or four gem slots to the horde PvP trinket. Do something! FFS. Don't just sit there and watch the server die.

Human racial is one of the biggest mistakes for that expansion, but it is made from Blizzard. Couple times the warmane staff have told that they wont change the game. :(

[truthwow1]

Couple times the warmane staff have told that they wont change the game. :(

We have tmog and we have gear based BGs.
Small custom adjustments are widely accepted by the community and they don't change the game per se.
Nerfing the human racial or buffing the pvp trinket would only be the next step in the right direction.
It would only be a small adjustments to improve the game.

[Skoobydoo]

We have tmog and we have gear based BGs.
Small custom adjustments are widely accepted by the community and they don't change the game per se.
Nerfing the human racial or buffing the pvp trinket would only be the next step in the right direction.
It would only be a small adjustments to improve the game.

Faction ration is 50/50 right now, nerfing the human racial will leave almost no reason at all for players to be alliance and will most likely complete demolish the existing balance. They have to be out of their minds to do that.

[truthwow1]

Faction ration is 50/50 right now, nerfing the human racial will leave almost no reason at all for players to be alliance and will most likely complete demolish the existing balance. They have to be out of their minds to do that.

The overall faction balance is 50/50. That takes pve and pvp players into account.
The PvP faction balance is highly alliance favored.

When you check the pve ladder on the armory then you can see there a decent representation of alliance guilds in the top ranks.
However, when you check the pvp ladder then you can see there only 2 horde teams in the top 50.
That tells us that the horde racial advantage in terms of pve is rather small compared to the huge human racial advantage in pvp.

I don't see how nerfing the human racial or buffing the pvp trinket would mess up the pve faction balance. Pve players are not even affected by such a change.

[Allylilith]

Faction ration is 50/50 right now, nerfing the human racial will leave almost no reason at all for players to be alliance and will most likely complete demolish the existing balance. They have to be out of their minds to do that.

Yeah imagine being able to quest on lordaeron without being killed 24/7 in thrallmar or standing in orgrimmar without alliance players walking around in the valley of strength... It would be a true disaster if both factions had a similar amount of players interested in pvp (at least for alliance players who might have to defend instead of just attack for once)

[Skoobydoo]

The overall faction balance is 50/50. That takes pve and pvp players into account.
The PvP faction balance is highly alliance favored.

When you check the pve ladder on the armory then you can see there a decent representation of alliance guilds in the top ranks.
However, when you check the pvp ladder then you can see there only 2 horde teams in the top 50.
That tells us that the horde racial advantage in terms of pve is rather small compared to the huge human racial advantage in pvp.

I don't see how nerfing the human racial or buffing the pvp trinket would mess up the pve faction balance. Pve players are not even affected by such a change.

You cant compare PVE and PVP performance. To kill LK hc you need to meet a threshold in gear and skill and then you can do it. Even if another guild players are way more skilled then your guild players both guild can clear all the existing content. There is also no penalty for wiping you can just keep trying, this is why you will always have pretty balanced PVE ladder. In PVP if someone is better then you he will keep beating you, which mean he will keep getting higher and higher rating and you will keep dropping lower and lower rating. Highest skilled players will always dominate in PVP, right now they pick human because of mid-maxing, but they can dominate as any race or with nerfed human racial. Nerfing the human racial itself will not change the ladder, you have to make this players to move Horde for that, but if they move horde then overall 50/50 ratio will be broken. Good example of that is TBC, generally speaking PVP racial can be said to be pretty balanced since some alliance race are insanely OP for specific classes, however Horde always have way more players.

[truthwow1]

Nerfing the human racial itself will not change the ladder, you have to make this players to move Horde for that, but if they move horde then overall 50/50 ratio will be broken.

The overall faction ratio is mostly irrelevant.
As long as each faction has enough players for all the PvE content the faction balance could even be 40/60 or worse.
Since Icecrown wont run low on PvEers on either factions thats not a issue.
The really important thing is the pvp faction balance because it directly affects the BG queue time.

[Skoobydoo]

The overall faction ratio is mostly irrelevant.
As long as each faction has enough players for all the PvE content the faction balance could even be 40/60 or worse.
Since Icecrown wont run low on PvEers on either factions thats not a issue.
The really important thing is the pvp faction balance because it directly affects the BG queue time.

Ok, you keep shifting your arguments. First it was about who win most BGs, then we talk about who dominate the arena ladder, now you are talking about queue times.....

Queue times are very fast on both sides, alliance is waiting only 1 to 2 mins for BG to pop so faction balance in terms of BGs is perfectly fine.

Who dominate arena ladder is completely irrelevant since you can play again your own faction teams, so i just cant see why is this even a issue?

[truthwow1]

Ok, you keep shifting your arguments. First it was about who win most BGs, then we talk about who dominate the arena ladder, now you are talking about queue times.....

You have to understand that these things are all related to each other.
Nerfing the human racial or buffing the pvp trinket would increase the BG win rate for the horde because many hardcore PvPer would switch to the horde side when they are no longer obligated to roll human for the superior racial.
It would change the PvP faction balance for the better and thus reduce the BG queue time on the ally side.
It would make more races viable in the competetive arena scene.

[Skoobydoo]

You have to understand that these things are all related to each other.
Nerfing the human racial or buffing the pvp trinket would increase the BG win rate for the horde because many hardcore PvPer would switch to the horde side when they are no longer obligated to roll human for the superior racial.
It would change the PvP faction balance for the better and thus reduce the BG queue time on the ally side.
It would make more races viable in the competetive arena scene.

But queue times are very low right now for alliance, you wait 1 to 2 mins only till the queue pop. There is absolutely no reason to make players switch to horde and reduce it. In term of BG activity server is very balanced right now.

I cant understand why is it so important to have more competitive PVP race in arena? Why is it matter if top 50 teams have 40 humans and 10 other races or 10 human and 10 of each other race? Please do explain what is the benefit from having more race diversity in top teams and why is this important for the server overall?

[Disktrasa]

Please do explain what is the benefit from having more race diversity in top teams and why is this important for the server overall?

He mad he picked the wrong race.
People are missing the whole point though, Custom change to any race / class dosen't exist in this game and people don't want that, They want "Blizzlike".
If you start messing with core abilities on classes you stray a rather huge step away from that.

[truthwow1]

But queue times are very low right now for alliance, you wait 1 to 2 mins only till the queue pop. There is absolutely no reason to make players switch to horde and reduce it. In term of BG activity server is very balanced right now.

I experience the opposite. +15 min queue times on ally side and ally outgears and wins against the horde in almost every BG.
Maybe you don't play at europe peak times or not in the high gear BG bracket?

I cant understand why is it so important to have more competitive PVP race in arena? Why is it matter if top 50 teams have 40 humans and 10 other races or 10 human and 10 of each other race?

Weird question. That's like asking why it's important to have class diversity in arena.
Well, maybe because ppl don't want to be obligated to play X race and X class just because it's stronger than the rest?
Ideally races should be equally strong. Even in the competitve play it should be a matter of preference what race a player picks.

Please do explain what is the benefit from having more race diversity in top teams and why is this important for the server overall?

You pretty much quoted the answer to your own question.
More race deversity in arena consquently means better PvP faction balance, less BG queue times and less
lopsided BGs. Like I said, all these things are related to each other.

[truthwow1]

He mad he picked the wrong race.
People are missing the whole point though, Custom change to any race / class dosen't exist in this game and people don't want that, They want "Blizzlike".
If you start messing with core abilities on classes you stray a rather huge step away from that.

No worry. Messing with core abilitys wouldn't be necessary.

The only thing that would need to be done is buffing the PvP trinket. Adding a few gem slots to it or increasing it's resilience would already do the job.
That would only be a tiny custom tweak. Nothing compared to other custom features such as tmog and gear based BGs, that we already have.

[Skoobydoo]

I experience the opposite. +15 min queue times on ally side and ally outgears and wins against the horde in almost every BG.
Maybe you don't play at europe peak times or not in the high gear BG bracket?

No i am form EU and i am at high gs bracket. Just tested it 1 mins ago queue time was 4 mins. Lower bracket is way faster i know that because i test it on alt as well. Before the GS bracket the queue was around 2mins for alliance, so if queue times have become a bit longer you can blame this custom change for it. I don't like the idea of fixing problem caused by custom change with another custom change.

Weird question. That's like asking why it's important to have class diversity in arena.
Well, maybe because ppl don't want to be obligated to play X race and X class just because it's stronger than the rest?

Ideally races should be equally strong. Even in the competitve play it should be a matter of preference what race a player picks.

You don't have that much class diversity in arena, top teams are usually only few classes. By your logic Warmane should rework classes as well. What about professions, there is clearly professions that are stronger then others for PVP, maybe they need to rework them as well. Blizzard did all of that and this is the reason people play here not on retail. And to compare classes to race is just stupid. Racial provide you with small benefits, while classes provide with complete different gameplay and set of skills. People are not forced to play specific race and the race pick is not the reason why someone is top rating.

You pretty much quoted the answer to your own question.
More race deversity in arena consquently means better PvP faction balance, less BG queue times and less
lopsided BGs. Like I said, all these things are related to each other.

That make no sense at all. What if best race was orc and human and they was equally better then other races in the game. We will have balanced low BG queue times, but no race diversity and will **** up the overall faction ratio.

People wanna play WOTLK expansion the way it use to be. I am against all custom changes, that include BG brackets and transmog. About transmog Warmane lied to us that they will add option to disabled it. The more custom changes they make the less this is WOTLK.

[truthwow1]

No i am form EU and i am at high gs bracket. Just tested it 1 mins ago queue time was 4 mins. Lower bracket is way faster i know that because i test it on alt as well. Before the GS bracket the queue was around 2mins for alliance, so if queue times have become a bit longer you can blame this custom change for it. I don't like the idea of fixing problem caused by custom change with another custom change.

So you say there is no queue issue whatsoever?
Well, thats awesome!
In this case the "Mercenary Mode" thread can be closed since it has a 36 pages long discussion about a issue that doesn't even exist.
The development of upcoming changes on the Blackrock realm, that are worked on to fix the queue issue, can be discontinued. I mean, there is no issue. It was all fictional.

You don't have that much class diversity in arena, top teams are usually only few classes. By your logic Warmane should rework classes as well. What about professions, there is clearly professions that are stronger then others for PVP, maybe they need to rework them as well. Blizzard did all of that and this is the reason people play here not on retail. And to compare classes to race is just stupid. Racial provide you with small benefits, while classes provide with complete different gameplay and set of skills. People are not forced to play specific race and the race pick is not the reason why someone is top rating.

Again. Nobody intends to change the whole game.
We are talking here about a tiny custom tweak. Buffing the pvp trinket is nothing more than that.

Ofc there are multiple things in the game that are not perfectly balanced. However, they don't cause such huge issues like the human racial currently does so it isn't necessary to change them.