1. saving private outland

    Out of 3 functioning tbc servers, people could argue that warmane's developers are in possession of the most advanced one in terms of raid scripting, spell interaction and class specific mechanics. yet, as it's becoming more and more visibile now, players are leaving to try uncertain projects that will most likely turn into a costly time sink.

    and why exactly does that happen? for what reason would anyone leave the most stable server with proven longetivity, considerably high population and competent admins whose formula had already shown that you can create environment with shop features and fully accesible content that attracts thousands, gives you lots of fun and can be enjoyed endlessly, while requiring less commitment than ever?

    well, if you listen closely to the voice of playerbase, you can hear about plenty of those, each person adding their slightly modified own. but just because there's a reasoning, it doesn't necessarily mean it's a rightful one. if by now a thought involving warglaives crossed your mind, you should sit down and realize that you're indecently clueless.

    the root of the problem, I assure you, lies in a fundamental structure of character progression on outland. namely, T5 25man raids, that should be viewed as a link-up between the freshly started and already established ones are heavily overtuned, to a point where you are required to bring at least few people who are tier/tier and a half above it in order to stand a chance of killing anything inside those instances (disregarding fathom lord karathress and voidreaver). this affects everyone. end-game guilds die out cause there's no pool of raiders they can choose from if their rosters fall apart/fail to deliver. progressing guilds stumble upon a big obstacle, members start questioning each other leading to conflicts, as the memory of clearing the same content without a hassle is still prevalent. freelancers can not organize vashj/kaelthas runs to give t6/t6.5 players alternative from doing the same raids over and over again thus keeping them engaged in all that expansion has to offer.

    the chain of issues expands deeper, general pattern remains the same. i'm not the first person to point out that the solution is rather simple. whether you implement it or add a global announcement that advises skipping T5 and going straight into hyjal is only up to you.

  2. What you address there is a part of the issue but it only affects PvE players. I don't think that this alone explains how Outlands population dropped from original 15k to 2k over the years.
    I think it's a combination of many things that lead to the population drop.

    The initial population of Outland consisted mainly of ex Neltharion players and Warmane players from other xpacs.
    Neltharion players don't like cash shops. With every new item release in the shop more and more of these players left. Warglaives in the store was porbably the overkill for most of these players.

    When it comes to the Warmane players from other xpacs that used to play on TBC, I believe that many of them consider TBC as too grindy.
    Wotlk is also somewhat grindy but TBC is just over the top grindy.
    Its a tremendous long honor grind to get just a few PvP pieces and the x1 rates on profs, gold and rep lead to even more monotonous grinding.
    I have 3750 GS on my character and I think like 90% of my playtime was only spend with grinding and only 10% with actually enjoying the game.
    I consider myself a patient person but I would definitely not do this for a second time. That's also the reason why I don't start with a alt character even though I'd really like to test some more classes out. I just don't have the patient to do that endless grind again.
    I guess the monotonous grind on TBC is the main reason why most Warmane players prefer to play on Icecrown.
    Edited: March 18, 2019

  3. Oh wow, I came back like 1 day ago to enjoy some old TBC but you can buy Warglaives? That does it for me...

  4. We are aware of the concerns the community has, so we are working hard and numbers are being finalised for nerfing to deliver it to players of Warmane.

  5. I think it's a combination of many things that lead to the population drop.

    When it comes to the Warmane players from other xpacs that used to play on TBC, I believe that many of them consider TBC as too grindy.
    Wotlk is also somewhat grindy but TBC is just over the top grindy.
    Its a tremendous long honor grind to get just a few PvP pieces and the x1 rates on profs, gold and rep lead to even more monotonous grinding.
    I deeply agree with you.

    Icecrown is 12k perma population because roll a new char, and have it 5K gs (equivalent of 2.4 on Outland) it take lessthen a week, farm honor is ez with WG, and weekly quest.
    On Icecrown Gearing up to competitive level is easy both PVE and PVP, plus Oon Warmane store gear is much more cheaper then Outland

    If the staff doesn't take action to make life easier (lower shop prices, extra honor days/week, or whatever) there is not much future unfortunately, and i say this sadly cause Outland is by far my fav server

  6. What I experienced in the private server scene is that the community is divided in two grp of players which have different preferences.
    The first grp wants everything like back on retail. x1 rates and no cash shop. (Lordaeron)
    The second grp wants high rates and is fine with a cash shop. (Icecown)
    Outland doesn't attract neither grps.
    The realm is right now like a mix of Icecrown and Lordaeron.
    It has high XP rates but once you hit 70 everything is x1 and it's even more grindy than on Lordaeron.
    Edited: March 19, 2019 Reason: Removed content belonging elsewhere.

  7. Oh wow, I came back like 1 day ago to enjoy some old TBC but you can buy Warglaives? That does it for me...
    Just ignore that fact. Because Warglaivesare so expensive to buy, only few ppl got them.

  8. Ppl like fresh starts, I would announce wipe, mail about it to inactive players, make honor rate x2, keep xp x5 and get rid of gul dans, glaives etc from store the next time. Cuz this server rlly is best tbc, only players reached bis items and got nothing to grind for, or got fed by items in store.

    Wipe sounds hard, but might actually rlly save outland.

  9. If you are giving the ppl Coins judging by market prizes for their wiped chars, OK.. but if not its literally killing the last diehard outland fans by "stealing" their chars...
    Give them some sort of "gift" i have no clue but definitely dont just delete the characters.
    BTW i got like 6 chars on outland the lowest geared one would be worth like 120 coins, so i guess iam not prejudiced on that part.. The best take would be to only give coins for "good" items like SSC/TK/Hyjal and higher items. So you dont kill the market by inflating it with coins. At least thats my opinion, maybe GM's will consider!
    It would definitely appeal to a lot of those NW and NB players which were all tryhard at start but now getting bored by the tedious lvling, especially since Warmane got by far the best Script. And since WM did the scripting for SWP and ZA/BT already we could change the scheduling about progression timing. Which could appeal new Tryhard guilds to rush through content, while also being challenging due to the buffed nature of WM.

  10. Wiping Outland is a terrible idea. You realy think that many ppl that initially played on Outland would return when their character gets wiped and they have to start from zero again?
    If there is really such a large playerbase that is interested in a fresh tbc realm (which I doubt), then it would make more sense to just release a second TBC realm which is then connected with Outland through cross-realm.
    Edited: March 21, 2019

  11. Reason i quit is mainly cause of BT shop release. That killed everything period.

    Admins were mistaken to compare Outland to Icecrown i terms of shop.

    TBC requires 10 times more effort to get to preBIS gear(blue Kara gear)but lets not forget attunements and Reputations.

    Just to get to Kara (first raid) required you to dive really hard into Content.

    Meanwhile it took me 2 and a half weeks to gear 5.9GS hunter on Icecrown (literally played it 40 min a day. Thia includes 2 professions 450/450).

    So when you sbower har core community with endgame hardcore boss items you simply kill the essence of TBC.

    I used to wake up in 03:00AM to attend raids with my NA guild and i disn't mind it at all. But once i saw random rogue with glaives and cursed vision and rest of the green gear i puked,logged out and set my chars on sale.

    RIP greatest private TBC server.

  12. Wipe is madness

    Any initiative that staff may plan to help newcomers and reroller is welcome

  13. Idk if a wipe is inevitable or not at some point...im not sure if u you can win or get back many people with changes now. This will be a kinda long post, so if u dont wanna read the whole thing, theres a list of maybe changes that could help the server down below. Its just my opinion and some people may disagree but i just wanted to get this out, cause warmane is best tbc server and maybe it helps :)

    For Hardcore PVP Players a problem is that you cant undo the things that happened (store items) and the game wont change anymore (its Endgame S4/SWP, so meta will be same over and over again). Dont think they will come back, unless you can get out with something flashy like a SoloQ or something^^. Players who more or less casually PVP could grow if you change the Honor system a bit (like x2 or activate double honor on bg weekends - would open the opportunity to create some pvp alts aswell). But another thing is, there is no reason to stay in high rated teams anymore and no reason to q on any other day than Tuesdays. So People will just team-hop and only q on tuesdays (because most teams) to get some action, which annoys these kinda lower geared/exp players.

    PVE Hardcore Raiders already cleared SWP and left or are working on it and are still here. The issue for the more casual PVE Players is that the availability of raids is very different to wotlk. In wotlk even as a casual you can experience many many raids as pug with the Normal/HC system (ICC,ToC,Archa), but in TBC without a guild you dont have many options beside Kara and maybe a ZA Pug. On Alliance side i barely ever saw a pug for T5/Hyjal or something. So you are forced to join a guild to experience these raids (which reduces availabilty in playing Alts for example). In my opinion the issue for this is, its just not necessary to go to these fantastic raids anymore. There are no attunements anymore, the Raids are overtuned for Pugs (cause u will always have some players not listening/doing bad or whatever), the trash takes horrible long and the loot isn't good anymore with BoJ-Gear. With new fine Tuning or slightly nerfs on the older raids, you have a good opportunity to get some players back or have new players stick around longer.

    This is just a list of ideas, some maybe stupid, some maybe impossible but i just wanna give a list:

    -> tweak the honor system (x2 or double honor we)
    -> give players a reason to stay in high rated teams or implement a mmr system
    -> give players a reason to q not only before flush (kinda like NW did with AP for matches, so more teams playing whole week)
    -> maybe soloQ :D

    -> New Tuning on Raids (just some ideas):
    -SSC & TK (slightly nerf for some trash and maybe Hydross, Kael'Thas, Vashj)
    -Hyjal (bosses seem fine, but maybe fine-tuning on the waves - either timer or abomination/Necros nerf)
    -ZA (this is a big issue in my opinion, if u dont build a super group for this "catchup" raid u will fail! Maybe Nerf bosses/gauntlets but lower Timer for Chests?!)
    -BT (idk if BT should be retuned or not, it seems fine but a nerf to the lower trash mobs could open availabilty for pugs on first bosses maybe)

  14. Imo the store, as it is right now, is not a big issue when it comes to PvP.
    S4 gear isn't available in the shop yet so the incentive to reach a high rating for s4 weapon and shoulders isn't taken away.

    Rewarding every arena game with ap is a risky thing. It would increase the arena activity but ppl would also abuse this system with win trading.

    I think the main issue of pvp is that the honor grind is too monotonious and time consuming. Newcomers give up before they are even geared enough for arena.
    The BG system of TBC with it's BG marks and isolated queues was just bad designed by Blizz.
    It would be much better to have random BGs which reward universal marks.
    It would bring more variety to BGs and queue times would be shorter when there is one random queue instead of 4 isolated BG queues.

    A quality of life change that could be already applied w/o much development effort is to increase the rep and prof rates.
    It would help newcomers immense.
    There is no need for all this hardcore x1 rates on everything. It should just be made like on Icecrown...

    I hope that Warmane will act now.
    If nothing is happening for another few more months then this realm will turn into another Neltharion or Frostwolf.
    Edited: March 23, 2019

  15. think i should add a few points to this thread one being that the past few weeks i followed a few in games friends to another server TBC. let me say right off the bat another server is not as good as warmanes outland period, outland is a better server. another server is a solid server but it had bugs and lag issues trhat outland does not have. even more so to be honest i noticed a big difference in skill between most of the players on another server compared to outland with outland being far better players overall.

    i can also say im pretty sure the reason why players #'s have gone on outland is do to the fact there are now two new TBC servers. i came to outland/warmane from another server thoese two servers + the two new ones = 4 TBC's servers that i know of. that means tbc players are spread across 4 servers....and the funny thing is here on outland with the 2-4k players on at peak times it about the same as another server.....yet another server is brand new server and i for one do not think it will have the player pop long term to keep a health player pop both in pvp and pve, where warmanes outland has.

    my point is other then adding warglives to the cash shop so soon outland is a perfect server and its better made then the rest of the tbcs servers out there.what news servers have going for them?is that they are new and people are out questing grinding levels and reps so it makes it look "more alive" more so then s4/swp geared people qing arenas/bgs or popping into swp.

    on another server the brand new tbc server i q'ed for low level bgs a few times and never got a pop once, yet when i was leveling up on warmane i got bgs pops alot and was running av and eye long before i was 70. when i did get into av on another server "61-70" at peak times last night/Saturday i had 11min q times....again this is on a brand new server.after sitting around for a while the q times dropped and i got into av a few more times but the game play is bad, they ride straight out of the starting zones to dreck/van they do not cap bunkers/towers and sit there killing warmasters then the boss and its gg. the sad thing was the av i q'ed into were not even 40v40 it was more like 25vs 25 and my last av ended due to not having enough players, again this is on a new server....

    so after that i logged into warmane and the 1st thing i noticed was how much better the game responded lag issues were gone and no bugs unlike another server. i q'd bgs here last night for an hour or so had almost instant q's into wsg and ab full 10vs10 or 15v15 matches. and im thinking to myself wow over 2+ years of outland and with all this talk about a dead server im getting instant q's.... and on another server some have waited for over an hour to get a bg to pop at certain times.

    everything i just said tells me and should tell all of you the reason why player #'s go up and down is not all from the cash shop,a shop that does not even sell s4 or swp gear yet. its more so due to the fact there 4 tbc servers with two of them being brand new so players are spread across all four. outland does not need a reset what it needs for all you to stop saying its a dead server its not.

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