Thank you for the hasty response and the communication Proterean. It's very much appreciated!
I whole heartedly agree with Doomche's post here. I didnt really consider 25 seconds more DPS was that big, but after watching a guild or two kill BQL easily now with the #1 DPS being only 17k, this nerf is disastrous. This actually completely killed BQL as an iconic point in a guild's heroic progression. The BQL nerf needs to be completely reverted and the nerfs, if any, need to be extremely tactful here.
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Hello, my name is Toob(redd) officer / raid leader of <Argent Dawn>. We clear 10/12 25-man HC (12/12 total) (no Lady / LK HC; we killed Sindy HC for the first time this week). I’m here to speak about the balance changes from the point of view of the leadership of <Argent Dawn>.
Lord Marrowgar
25 man normal
Retail 25N: 23.7M
Lordaeron Old 25N: 33.1M
Lordaeron New 25N: 35.6M (+7.55%)
These changes only show a change in amount of health, but no change of enrage time. If the goal of this change is to extend the time the fight takes without changing the dps requirement ( more health + longer enrage timer) the change is fine. We don’t feel that the fight should be made a harder DPS requirement than it already is, since it’s normal. These sorts of fights should be accessible even to those who don’t have the perfect gear, but do know how to play their classes.
25 man heroic
Retail 25H: 31.4M
Lordaeron Old 25H: 42.4M
Lordaeron New 25H: 47.1M (+11.08%)
Assuming the changes made on normal are there to increase the duration of the fight but not the damage requirements, and seeing that the buff on heroic is higher than on normal, this will presumably increase the dps requirement of the heroic fight. We think making Marrowgar heroic harder is fine considering the fight is easier than even some normal bosses (sindy, lk, maybe others). For people that farm this boss every week it might make the fight more interesting instead of just faceroll the fight every week.
10 man heroic
Retail 10HC: 10.5M
Lordaeron Old 10H: ~14.7M
Lordaeron New 10H: 17.3M (+17.69%)
Buffing 10m HC Marrowgar might force people to pay even more attention to building the right composition if they don’t overgear the fights. We think such a change would be good for the harder fights (like end wing bosses / lk) but don’t think it’s a good change for an entry fight like Marrowgar considering building a good 10m composition is way harder than a good 25m composition.
Lady Deathwhisper
25m normal
Retail 25N: 13.4M + 11M(mana)
Lordaeron Old 25N: 20M + 16.8M(mana)
Lordaeron New 25N: 18.1M + 15.1M (mana) (-9.5% health / -10.18% mana)
We don’t feel like we can give any good feedback on lady normal. We’ve never had issues slaying the fight on normal and don’t know of anyone struggling on the fight on normal thus we find it strange it’s being changed.
25m heroic
Retail 25H: 26,8M + 13,9M(mana)
Lordaeron Old 25H: 40.2M + 21M (mana)
Lordaeron New 25H: 37.5M HP + 19.5M (mana) (-6.72% health / -7.14% mana)
Lady heroic is definitely overtuned. We would prefer to see the bug fixed where spirits immediately explode when they land instead of a number nerf. However anything that makes the fight more accessible is welcomed. We feel that right now the fight is just to much of a hassle for what it’s worth so we haven’t put any recent effort into progressing it.
Deathbringer Saurfang
25m heroic
Retail 25H: 43,93m
Lordaeron Old 25H: 46,1m
Lordaeron New 25H: 43.93m (-4.70% health)
For our guild this change has little to no impact besides making the fight shorter. It would open opportunities for more guilds to reach their first heroic end wing boss thus giving them access to heroic tokens. A drop in health decreases the dps requirements for the fight by either being more lenient on the enrage timer or the amount of marks you get on your raid making it easier on healers.
Festergut
25m heroic
Retail 25H: 52,2m
Lordaeron Old 25H: 60,1m
Lordaeron New 25H: 57.5m (-4.33% health)
Just like dbs this change has little to no impact on our guild. It lowers the dps requirement for the fight but considering this fight main purpose is to be a gear / dps check we don’t deem this change necessary
Professor Putricide
25m heroic
Retail 25H: 50,2m
Lordaeron Old 25H: 57,8m
Lordaeron New 25H: 52.6m (-9.00% health)
Considering the hard part of this fight is the dmg check on oozes and not the boss we think this change will have little to no impact on the fight at all. If you wish to make the fight more accessible a change to the ooze health has to be made and not on the boss. The only real change is that the last phase would require less coördination since you won’t need hunters taunting off as many stacks of ‘mutated plague’ which we consider to be a bad change.
10m heroic
Retail 10HC: 13.6m
Lordaeron Old 10HC: 17.1m
Lordaeron New 10HC: 14.3m (-16.37% health)
A nerf of 16.37% health is quite large, especially considering that 10m PP HC is way easier than 25m PP HC. We feel a change like this makes the fight too easy considering it’s a end wing boss. After having done this fight yesterday we can confirm that it has become significantly easier on 10m damage wise.
Blood Prince Council
25m heroic
Retail 25H: 30,5m
Lordaeron Old 25H: 30,5m
Lordaeron New 25H: 41.4m (+35.74% health)
Longer enrage timer
If the goal of this change is to extend the duration of the fight instead of making the dps requirement harder, it’s a good change. This change makes it so that you have to execute the tactics for longer without increased the gear / dps requirement.
25m normal
Retail 25N: 22.5m
Lordaeron Old 25N: ~25m
Lordaeron New 25N: 37.2m (+48.8% health)
This change seems to make the difference between normal and heroic insignificant which feels like a bad thing. We feel normal should be way more accessible compared to the heroic fight dps / gear-wise. Buffing a normal fight more than you buff a heroic fight seems counterproductive.
Blood-Queen Lana'thel
25m
Retail 25H: 71,3m
Lordaeron Old 25H: 78,4m
Lordaeron New 25H: 74.9m (- 4.46% health)
Retail 25N: 59.4m
Lordaeron Old 25N: ~61m
Lordaeron New 25N: 74.2m ( + 21.64% health)
We don’t understand the reasoning behind slightly nerfing BQ 25m heroic while significantly buffing 25m normal. The people who are already fully geared and have 25m hc on farm have it easier, while the people who are trying to get the gear to start progressing 25m heroic are put at a disadvantage.
It seems that the enrage timer was also increased quite significantly on heroic. This makes the fight significantly easier which is something we disagree on considering it is an end wing boss.
Valithria Dreamwalker
25m heroic
Retail 25H: 36m
Lordaeron Old 25H: 41,2m
Lordaeron New 25H: ~38.4m (- 6.80% health)
A slight decrease in amount of healing needed. No real feedback on this one, since the fight isn’t an issue for us at all. This decrease in health might open up different healing composition to be able to heal it (you won’t be needing as many resto shamans / holy paladins)
Sindragosa
10m heroic
Retail 10HC: 13.9m
Lordaeron Old 10HC: 14.6m
Lordaeron New 10HC: 16m (+ 9.59% health)
We don’t understand the logic behind nerfing Professor and Blood Queen 10m HC while simultaneously buffing Sindragosa 10m HC. Sindragosa already is significantly harder than any other end wing boss on 10m.
The Lich King
10m heroic
Retail 10H: 29.3m, 15:00 enrage
Lordaeron Old 10H: 29.3m, 13:15 enrage
Lordaeron New 10H: 32.4m, 14:00 enrage (+ 10.58% increase in health / + 5.66% increase in enrage) (an increase of 36 855 to 38 571 total dps requirement)
We don’t feel like bane needed a DPS requirement increase. As a guild who tries to progress it whenever we have time to make a 10m heroic raiding group, we feel like the fight is already quite hard as it is.
Tl;DR We agree with making the normal fights more accessible for those who need it, but we disagree with the changes that make significantly nerf the heroic fights (like BQ & PP ).
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ICC doesnt need additional nerfs, compared to the initial release 25h now looks like 25n 2 years ago, that leaves current 25n easier than ToC25n on release values.
The most loyal players that still play lordaeron play it for the challenging content, not looking forward for further nerfs.
Maybe if its possible add the 5% buff but make it possible to turn on only if noone in the raid has killed x boss or something to make up for progressing guilds, but any additional nerfing just disappoints the actively raiding community.Edited: April 14, 2019
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I think most of the changes are fine apart from how much blood boil hits on DBS 10hc, It was almost 1 shotting our casters.
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best words ever! =)
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Hello everyone! I'm Mirotvorets, guild master and raid leader of Beer Soul guild. I'm and most of ppls here playing cause we kinda love idea of challenge. We need to use brain, discover new tactics, discuss and try to find best way how to optimize everyhing, go deep into full boss mechanics and what i wanna say... We have 2 groups of icc25: core and alts/plebs
I like it, cause even in our g2 we killing it before HP buff without any problems, but most of ppls doing mistakes and slacking, it will force them to be more concetrated and serious.
Still 2 op, and as most of other guys said, main problem atm with spirits explode instant
Dont like it, it's only 4 boss, but still, if u wanna keep idea of challenge id prefer to back his previous value HP or even increase, cause even our group2 also killing it without problem (and sometimes we have some pugs and slackers - we need to force them to play better), if we killing it in g2, it seems ez.
Dont like it, it's only dps and react in time check, if ppls know their class it shouldnt be a problem even for 6k plebs.
As most of others said, biggest problem for guilds who wanna progress it - huge amount HP of ozzies, boss HP will not help a lot, from my point of view better keep same boss HP and reduce a little (10-15%) ozzie HP
A lot of time when target was changed from valanar to some1 else, next target's HP going to FULL, if it was fixed, i think it will be about same as was before, or a little longer (also fine, let plebs use their brain and play with attention)
Kinda dont like, for both hc and normal. In HC it's rly nice check how guild want to progress. If u wanna keep idea of challenge u need to find a way how to optimize here bite order, positioning, min-max dps (like everything) - it's about HC. About normal HP - i hope it's mistake, cause don't even think that need to explain why.
about same, doesnt rly matter
good, since even we are pushing that boss through 3rd phase in 1 tank, probably now we need to respect tactic and play with 2. And as a lot of plls told, kinda waiting for stacks fix.
with that change i think only 2-3 guilds rly could kill bane (but they alrdy don't need it), others even will not try cause 2 op. For 25N - fine, last boss, big weapons, let plebs play serious and respect mechanics
and about ROTFACE:
kinda waiting to fix that damn invis ozzie, sometimes we doing mistakes if not respect mechanics, it's fine. But we dont wanna loose raid time (around 5-10min per every pull to unbug it)Edited: April 14, 2019
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Most likely disagree. If you are going to have to 2 tank it, then the fight will be much longer, and you expose yourself to the RNG of having the healer without Unchained in a tomb, and the healer with Unchained supposed to heal tank and raid through a tank switch - which is basially, you have to pull till the gods decide to line up the stars and give you the pull where the rng shines on you. This is not really the way people enjoy beating bosses, I guess.good, since even we are pushing that boss through 3rd phase in 1 tank, probably now we need to respect tactic and play with 2. And as a lot of plls told, kinda waiting for stacks fix.Originally Posted by Frysharry
Sindragosa
Retail 10HC: 13.9m
Lordaeron Old 10HC: 14.6m
Lordareon New 10HC: 16m
The previous tuning on 10HC Sindragosa allowed a 6.1k geared 10m raid to kill (no mistakes allowed), this new tuning will place the gear requirements closer to 6.3k (no mistakes allowed). Now, I was refering to 6.1 pre-RS release, so maybe the boss can be slightly buffed (but not by 10%) to account for the fact that it is now much easier to have dps with very good trinkets (pnl/dfo/cts or dbw/sts). For the record, when I killed Sindragosa 10H in the group thar progressed and killed the alliance 2nd Bane on Lordearon, the raid gear was sitting in the range 5.9-6.1, and it was a challenging fight, often wiping us 3-10 times. 16M would make it plain impossible for that group, back then. If I were to tune the fight again to account for the changes that have since then happened (spell queue hello!), I'd make the following group: druid tank, hpala, rshaman, ret, fdk, hunter, boomie, mage, lock, sp and allow only ilvl 264 or lower gear and see what tuning that group manage to reliably not kill but wipe sub 5%. That value would be correct tuning - but ofc this is a time consuming process.
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Hello, I am Fienda, representing the casual guild of <KappaXD>. My gs is 6537 and I do 17.6k dps on DBS HC. I had to say this so that everyone would understand my high position within the community, and the importance of my opinions.
I don't think any of the buffs were necessary since top guilds like Raven and After Life will kill everything without a single death, but guilds with less skilled people and guilds that are still progressing might struggle way too much on some bosses (Bane, I'm looking at you).
While I do wish to retain the hardcore aspect of the server, I think there is no need to tone up the "easier" fights, as there are still plenty of fights that require a good effort from the guilds, especially the progressing ones.
Nerfs on the other hand? Unnecessary (BQL, god why?). Like many others, including people from the top guilds, already pointed out, fixing known bugs is the best adjustment to the difficulty of the fights.
What would I do? Revert everything, make ghosts at LDW take a breather before they start moving after spawning, and that's it. I think that is enough even for us less-gifted players.Edited: April 15, 2019
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Hi All,
I am Whirlpool from casual guild <<KappaXD>> and I do 13k dps on DBS HC as Boomer. Thank you first of all to have fixed adds on Ulduar, big thumbs up for that!! Any changes in ICC are appreciated, but pls if you could nerf something, nerf Lady Deathwhisper, all other bosses are too easy for us!!!
Thanks,
Whirlpool
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Hello people,
I'm Zeoder, the unholy DK from KappaXD, the one who went from fresh lvl 80 to Shadowmourne in 9 months and currently full BiS. I can do 15.6K dps in DBS hc and I could do even more if I weren't asked to use chains of ice on beasts. ICC was fine before tuning and now is very easy. If you could fix spirits of Lady hc we will be able to clear full ICC HC even in less time (currently 3h to clear 11/12 hc, LoD included but not Lady).
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Here is my opinion as a guy from a small guild doing icc10 normal runs as a casual guild.
Lord Marrowgar
We had our poor hunter to be the totem. Nice thing you removed it, made the fight abit harder but is okay.
Lady DW
All good.
Gunship
Everyone is mad about cannons bug lol, no one says anything about muradin bug tho.
Saurfang
People get instantly dead from blood boil. One guy took 2 hits from it and died. He was alone in a 12 yard range. It was too hard to kill so we RO. Is DBS10n should be that hard?
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It seems to me that tryhard guilds dont want easy bosses, while low guilds need a small push to help them kill at least 4/10 normal. Cant you just buff 25HC more and nerf 10NM abit? We dont want to be tryhard guild but still also dont want to be as easy as Icecrown realm, where practicaly you can do icc10 as if it's a dungeon.
So nerf icc10 and since hardcore guilds want, buff 25mans.
Ty
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Given time, non "tryhards" will want to "tryhard" to w/e extend they can, so right now any nerf is welcomed by casual guilds but in a month or two even non "tryhards" will hate it, why play a game that offers no end game content or satisfaction of achievement ?
Maybe its time for wotlk mythic ? :D
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Halo I'm Touzer from <KappaXD> best gear minmaxer :D . Im fienda's trickser and I enjoy beating more geared people in dps . I dont appreciate the changes that happened , we just wanted to fix the bugs , specially sindragosa stacks for rogues ( sadface) . Many new guilds were racing for some hcs now everything is easy peasy for some of them , people even were too confidient so they moved for other hcs sadly they kept wiping phase 1 , well just fix the bugged parts about bosses otherwise , let it as it is , we dont want easy food :D , also nerf lady :D so hunters can get their big legs , lordaeron has been hardmode realm since the start leveling x1 and clearing takes ages due to buffed bosses etc , anyway WTB harder raids :D, peace !
https://prnt.sc/nc6x2y
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hello
Hello, I am mostly known as Cyzz (remember me Carbine? @Frysharry). I am a former Core member of <After Life> so I do have the right to speak. I have done 12/12 in After Life aswell as 11/12 excluding Lady in <KappaXD> as a mage so I didn't only get LoD in 1 but 2!!! guilds!
I like to describe myself as a good player and I played my class to the best of its abilities, ****ting on anything that couldn't run away fast enough. This includes making people look old on the damage meters (example: PP 25hc https://imgur.com/TBB1sCS). Also I enjoyed ganking high skilled top guild players before raids, using Killing Spree to oneshot them in the air. But let's come to the point, enough of this bs introduction.
Fix bugs instead of making bosses weaker. I can agree to the changes to easier bosses like Festergut etc since many new coming guilds have issues with that. But 5,2 mil nerf on PP 25hc is too much, BQL 25hc nerf is too much and I guess you didn't touch Sindy 25hc because it's ****ed up anyways with the meele stacks. Get the basics right first, when I raided there were cycles of new bugs appearing that have been fixed years ago which is probably due to the recoding of your core. Still, what makes raids somewhat unenjoyable is NOT that they are too hard, but the major bugs we have been facing for months or even years *invis ooze cough cough*.
The direction you are going is right, but not the way.
also, !!!free Bestworld and Coone!!!Edited: April 15, 2019
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Hello people,
I'm Vailia, the 6497 GS discipline priest from KappaXD (AKA Fienda's PI), I do 500 dps on DBS HC and am asking that Sindragosa's "Bad breath" and stacking debuff gets fixed, also that Lady HC's spirits get fixed. Thanks for all you people do for the server.
My best wishes - The lonely PI.
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