Hello everyone! We're a couple days into the new ICC tuning so I wanted to start a 'formal' post to consolidate feedback from people interested in giving their opinion about the tuning.
While we don't have a changelog of sorts to tell us exactly what was changed and by how much, enough of us have raided in the past couple of days to get some decent estimates/data. I will be listing number tuning that we know for sure or know of. If anyone has any proof of anything new or wishes to offer corrections, please post it! I am using this post solely for data.
Lord Marrowgar
Retail 25N: 23.7m
Lordaeron Old 25N: 33.1m
Lordaeron New 25N: 35.6m
Retail 25H: 31,4m
Lordaeron Old 25H: 42,4m
Lordaeron New 25H: 47.1m
Retail 10HC: 10.5m
Lordareon Old 10H: ~14.7m
Lordareon New 10H: 17.3m
Lady Deathwhisper
Retail 25N: 13.4m + 11m (mana)
Lordaeron Old 25N: 20m + 16.8m (mana)
Lordaeron New 25N: 18.1m + 15.1m (mana)
Retail 25H: 26,8m + 13,9m (mana)
Lordaeron Old 25H: 40,2m + 21m (mana)
Lordaeron New 25H: 37.5m HP + 19.5m (mana)
Deathbringer Saurfang
Retail 25H: 43,93m
Lordaeron Old 25H: 46,1m
Lordaeron New 25H: 43.93m
Festergut
Retail 25H: 52,2m
Lordaeron Old 25H: 60,1m
Lordaeron New 25H: 57.5m
Professor Putricide
Retail 25N: 42m
Lordareon Old 25N: 46m
Lordareon New 25N: 52.3m
Retail 25H: 50,2m
Lordaeron Old 25H: 57,8m
Lordaeron New 25H: 52.6m
Retail 10HC: 13.6m
Lordaeron Old 10HC: 17.1m
Lordaeron New 10HC: 14.3m
Blood Prince Council
Retail 25H: 30,5m
Lordaeron Old 25H: 30,5m
Lordaeron New 25H: 41.4m
Retail 25N: 22.5m
Lordaeron Old 25N: 24.8m
Lordaeron New 25N: 37.2m
Blood-Queen Lana'thel
Retail 25H: 71,3m
Lordaeron Old 25H: 78,4m
Lordaeron New 25H: 74.9m
Retail 25N: 59.4m
Lordareon Old 25N: ~61m
Lordareon New 25N: 74.2m
Retail 10HC: 18.9m
Lordaeron Old 10HC: 21.7m
Lordareon New 10HC: 19.8m
Valithria Dreamwalker
Retail 25H: 36m
Lordaeron Old 25H: 41,2m
Lordaeron New 25H: 39.6m
Sindragosa
Retail 10HC: 13.9m
Lordaeron Old 10HC: 14.6m
Lordareon New 10HC: 16m
The Lich King
Retail 10H: 29.3m, 15m enrage
Lordaeron Old 10H: 29.3m, 13:15 enrage
Lordaeron New 10H: 32.4m, 14:00 enrage
Retail 25N: 61.3m
Lordaeron Old 25N: 64.1m
Lordaeron New 25N: 73.2m
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Member
Community Feedback - Recent ICC number tuning
Edited: April 14, 2019
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Member
I am Carbine, a 6516 GS Hunter, from Raven. We clear 11/12HC (12/12 total) every week. I want to preface this post by saying I hope these buffs are not to compensate for the two top guilds on the server, however it does feel like it on numerous bosses.
I am fine with the 25 man tuning for us. I don't know how much of a challenge this increase will pose to less-geared progressive guilds but I am listening to others as the week plays out. For us in Raven, and I know this is the same for After Life, we are clearing this in under 3 minutes at this point. For a 25HC boss that does give BIS loot, I think the tuning is not completely unwarranted but as I prefaced the post with, I hope these buffs are not targeted specifically at AL/Raven. This boss now has 50% buffed HP and it is only the first boss of ICC.
I am excited to see nerfs for Lady as I have been extremely vocal about how overtuned she is. On paper, I don't know how big of a nerf this is so I guess I will have to wait for AL core to pull it, but at this point any nerf on this ridiculously overtuned/buggy boss is welcome. That said, considering a major part of the challenge of this boss (spirits) are bugged and are virtually impossible to react to if she summons them on top of a person, I was hoping this boss to receive a larger numerical nerf until these critical bugs are fixed. Considering this is only the second boss in the raid, is non-essential, and only drops two pieces of BIS loot for two specs, and there are still major issue with spirits, I expected a nerf that would instantly warrant this boss to be farmed by the two virtually BiS guilds. This tuning doesn't seem to get us there, but I haven't pulled it with tuned numbers so I can't say for sure.
I'm fine with this change. It's the first big boss of ICC and will help a lot of lesser-progressed guilds start getting heroic tokens and big heroic items. As far as 10 man, I am not sure of any HP tuning however I did hear Blood Boil is hitting extremely hard. I will need to personally experience this before saying anything, but I hope Blood Boil hitting extra hard isn't a targeted nerf at Raven/AL groups that are solo-healing this boss on heroic.
I don't think this is a boss that required any nerfs, but I don't really care either way.
Professor is the first logical progression boss in any guild's progression that will pose a great challenge. I do feel like his HP should've been tuned a bit, but I think 5.2m is a bit excessive. 2.6m would've been a nicer nerf.
Oh boy, here we go. As far as 25H goes, I enjoy this buff. For me at least, this was an encounter that was just "ok let's just blow through BPC real quick then clear up Queen so we can move onto Sindra". This change effectively forces guilds to actually put effort into this boss and to play mechanics for at minimum two full cycles through all 3 bosses. This feels similar to Marrow buffs where I will enjoy this as it feels like an actual fight, but in lesser-progressed guilds this may be a bit of an issue. I'll have to wait and see to hear from other guilds as far as HC tuning feels. I personally don't mind this buff.
The issue I have with this tuning is the normal tuning. There's not really a reason to do anything besides heroic now with how overtuned normal. If you're going to do the same amount of work, you mind as well get BIS loot for it. For not giving BIS loot, it definitely should not have received a 12m health buff on normal difficulty. This is one of the most confounding changes. +5m, fine, but +12m? IDK.
25H changes I don't really have an opinion on either way. This is not a challenging boss for us in Raven. I also raid with DPS on my Resto Shaman and this heroic tuning will be of great benefit for us. We shouldn't have any issues with this boss any longer in DPS.
That said, the 13m buff to Queen NORMAL is absolutely mind baffling. There is only a 700,000 HP difference between normal and heroic, when there used to be a 17 MILLION hp difference. This MUST have been a fat finger mistake or something, because there's no way this is intentional.
I don't understand why Vali got nerfs, but I don't care either way. This is one of the first bosses guilds do on heroic and is on farm by every guild doing heroics in 25.
I don't know enough about the number tuning here to form an educated opinion so I will hold my tongue until I speak to my friends over in AL about this, or we run Bane ourselves.
Edit: I found new numbers for Sindra. This is really bizarre. I don't know why Sindra 10HC would get a buff but something like Professor would get a nerf. I have to feel this out with my guild before I can give an opinion but really bizarre.
Speaking of Bane however, it seems he got a pretty massive buff. This is one of the most confounding buffs here and nobody really understands why this was buffed. As I prefaced this post, I feel like this is a buff targeted at AL and/or Raven simply because it is being farmed every week, and has no other basis. This is a completely unnecessary change as Bane is one of the hardest fights in the game pre-buffs; all the people/guilds farming this went through dozens and dozens of pulls to learn exactly what needs to be done and when and that is the only reason this is being killed consistently.
Post-buff however, according to what I heard from friends in AL, this is now a fight that requires everyone be 6.5k+ GS and to have multiple Shadowmournes in the group. I don't understand why this would be the standard for this fight, considering it doesn't give BIS loot and really only exists as practice for LoD and the Bane of the Fallen King title.
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Overall, these changes seem to have zero logic & consistency. Some bosses, like Fester and Vali which are on-farm bosses for most guilds doing ICC heroic, receive nerfs, while other encounters like BPC and BQL normal have received proportionally ridiculous buffs. I really wish there's communication from the people making these changes so we as a community can understand exactly why certain decisions are made and we're not just left in the dark about this stuff. You guys are asking for community feedback on the changes but we have no objective source of what was changed. Nobody understands why anything was changed, and as far as I can tell from talking to about a hundred people in heroic guilds, nobody asked for or wanted an overwhelming majority of these changes. However, the sentiment that I have heard consistently from everyone about these changes is why? For future changes, could we please get a changelog that is posted at the same time the changes are implemented as well as an explanation for why things are changed? Thank you!Edited: April 13, 2019
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Member
to ez need to be harder
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Im hoping they mixed up some numbers(fat fingered or just plain mistake) because some of the fights are now harder in normal 25m than in HC(bql hp difference between nm and hc ) and I think(hope) there has been a mistake in blood boil dmg on dbs10/10hc(1shot a 6k spriest). Should revise the nerfs/ buffs that have been done all around, and maybe actually fix some of the known bugs or "features" ( invisible rotface ooze, rotface bugging after a wipe, lady25hc friendly spirits, gunship cannons and gunship fight in general ). Best of luck to pugs now tho . :D
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The Marrowgar hc buffs seem a bit excessive given it's the first fight majority will do (after lootship) on hc, especially on 10 man. Something in the middle of the buffs done may be more appropriate. I feel like the enrage timer has been slightly shortened on hc as well by 15 seconds.
Apart from this my major concern at the moment is the normal fights appear to be bugged and many have the same HP on normal as HC on 25, especially past the first wing. PP has 52m on normal atm, BQL 74m - exactly same as HC.
Same goes for Rotface, Fester and BPC, I haven't checked Sindra's.
I've also been told that many bosses on 10man HC have less HP than normal due to the same bug (with the normal HP's being wrong) but I haven't tested this myself.
Bane does also seem a rather odd change.
Finally I know its a bit off topic but there is also a game breaking bug that has appeared since Wednesday with players sometimes being one shot by the blood boil cast on DBS normal or HC (the cast itself is doing physical damage from the boss but should just be a dot?).
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Hello,
I am Lolesa, a long-time Core Raider of Raven. Here is what I think about the changes:
Lord Marrowgar: HP buff makes sense since a lot of PUGs I've seen have been able to kill this on HC. I don't think that should be the case for a "hardcore" server like Lordaeron. Perhaps a nerf to enrage timer to go with this?
Lady Deathwhisper: Fix the spirits and add transformations. I doubt that, even with these nerfs, After Life, Raven, or KappaXD will seriously try putting this boss on farm without bug fixes. Also, fixing add transformations will help guilds get Full House.
Gunship Battle: Fix the bug where people get teleported out of cannons (and sometimes through the ship to their deaths) upon the pull. It was Blizzlike to be able to shoot the other ship before the encounter technically started.
Deathbringer Saurfang: Blood Boil should not one-shot a person if they are standing alone. That seems to be just a damage tuning problem. The nerf to HP is fine as this boss drops several BiS items that can only drop once per kill.
Rotface: Please fix the Invisible Ooze and Ooze Flood bugs. When a Big Ooze explodes, it creates an "Invisible Ooze" that still has a threat table, thus it can target healers. It is basically mandatory to have a DK kiting the ooze as only they can really keep aggro on that ooze (Paladin can work too, but they are far weaker). After a wipe, Professor Putricide continues to cast Ooze Flood, forcing a raid to pull Festergut before pulling Rotface again.
Festergut: Not sure why these nerfs were added, but this could help guilds seeking to do some more HC bosses. A Blizzlike enrage timer would have been a better nerf.
Professor Putricide: The nerfs should have been directed at the Oozes, mainly for the transition phase. This is the real killer of guilds looking to progress high heroics as they require tight coordination just to be able to kill them before the slow wears off for too long and whatever ooze is still alive wipes the raid. Also, fixing the transition scripting on heroic would help out other guilds looking to kill this on heroic.
Blood Price Council: If the HP gain/loss bug is fixed, then these changes put it more in line with pre-nerf retail values. However, this boss is way too hard on normal unless the enrage timer is pushed all the way back to Blizzard's 10 minute enrage timer. Guilds would just kill this boss on heroic ASAP because of the HP gain bug whenever the orb changes princes; but now it just has far more HP than it did before.
Blood Queen Lana'thel: There is no reason to do this boss on normal now. This must be a tested heroic HP value that was accidentally placed in the normal version.
Valithria Dreamwalker: What needed to be nerfed are the adds. They currently have too much HP for even near-bis raid guilds to be able to freely kill the Abominations. To compensate, we use DKs and Hunters to kite them.
Sindragosa: A bug fix to her Chilled to the Bone would help, as well as Frost Breath in phase 3 (she is casting Breath too quickly after Blistering Cold). A fix to the old Blistering Cold grab into Frost Breath into an instant wipe would be nice too. An enrage timer increase is needed. If the rumors are true, this helps guilds seeking to eventually kill Bane/LoD as they no longer have to farm for months just to have enough gear to kill this boss.
The Lich King: It seems as if only 10 man has been changed. However, the HP gain is insane with the 14 min enrage timer. If it were the Blizzlike 15 minutes, this buff would be warranted as it would be killlable with far less gear than what is required now, but would still be challenging. Was this because After Life killed it with a solo tank? As for 25, if the enrage timer is also extended, this would push guilds that don't want to progress LoD due to the lengthy gear grind required to consider trying for the progression instead of just waiting for their best players to /gquit and join After Life, Raven, or KappaXD for their Light of Dawn title.
Halion: Not sure if this was intended, but Halion seems to be hitting harder than he was before.
Thank you for your consideration!Edited: April 13, 2019
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Bravo! Honestly!
We saw, we asked, we questioned, we asked again, and then instead of "gratzing" to devs about the hard work they've done in the last couple of months, the community "that asked for these changes via feedback" has to pull itself out of whatever the hole its been cast down to. I guess the theme for the year has been set, we just needed to recognize it: Vanilla times are here, make preparations!
But I digress...
As resto shaman I don't find these HP changes that significant. It prolongs the fights a little bit, some of the nerfs that happened I don't deem necessary (VDW, DBS). I do agree with Carbines commentary on changes. For us in Raven, we wouldnt've even noticed the HP changes until somebody mentioned it on Fester. Can't speak for 10m versions of the encounters given i haven't pulled them this raid ID so, we'll see.
Edit: I'm starting to believe that these changes were targeting 10man guilds, given that most of the nerfs happened there. Which is OK... kinda...I guess
Peace,
Caisha.Edited: April 13, 2019
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TL;DR version: Make normal modes with retail value (HP, enrage timer), unnerf heroic modes so they were like before, except LDW (gotta nerf her for about 20%-30%).
Hey, I'm Aero from the guild <Raven>. I'd also like to give my personal opinion on the whole matter as part of the Lordaeron raiding community freedback. The reason is simply I LOVE Lordaeron and think it's one, if not THE, very best overall PvE oriented realms out there and I would very much like to see it stay in that place. Also, I am speaking stricktly from my, LOD farming guild, point of view, but since I am involved in the Lordaeron community quite well, I know mostly what kind of a mindset exist on the server. Lastly I also will mostly speak about 25 difficulty (N+HC), because that is what I am raiding the most.
First I'd like to say that MOST of these difficulty changes were not needed and really don't make a lot of sense. For many top guilds the tuning was absolutely fine on pretty much all bosses. The only nerf everyone was asking about was only Lady Deathwhisper because she is quite buggy and completely overtuned. Everything else was completely fine.
Now, I understand that the vast majority of serious raiding guilds do NOT farm LOD every week, but are killing about 7/12 bosses on Heroic difficulty, but that is completely fine. The harder Heroics SHOULD require great gameplay and min-maxing from their raiders because that is what makes a difference between a good guild and a "bad" one. And the majority of people don't posses that kind of skill, which basically means that the harder Heroic bosses are untouched by the less skilled players - but isn't that the whole point of this hardcore realm? Secondly, the better raiding guilds trying to kill a hard Heroic boss but are missing a kill by a few %? GOOD, that way, they will be able to really start min-maxing their gameplay and when they will finally learn and kill that hard boss, the feeling will be so much better and more rewarding as well as they will find new appreciation for the tuning - my point in all of this being, we all like to feel good about ourselves because we have done something hard that others didn't because we put alot of effort into it. And nerfing bosses takes most of the effort away now, not just from us, but from other progressing guilds as well.
In this part I will try to explain my idea of the ideal server and hopefully most people would agree with me - and if not, it's fine. My ideal server would be one that would catter to both casual players not really interested in doing hard Heroic bosses and those of us, hardcore tryhard players aiming to conquer and farm the hardest of the hard Heroics. The answer to this is, in my opinion, quite simple: No ICC buff whatsoever (done on Lordaeron, so that's good), all bosses on normal difficulty are RETAIL value (HP, enrage timer) and all bosses on Heroic difficulty are buffed like they were before this nerf (+HP, enrage timer shortened), except Lady Deathwhisper nerfed abit. That way casual players will be able to enjoy the raiding scene without trying to put that much effort into it, pugs will thrive and allow to kill more bosses and allow us, hardcore raiders, the challenge we long for - and make us happy that only we are able to kill this stuff (which in the end matter most to all hc raiders anyway, isn't this why we're doing ti??). I think normal difficulty being the same as retail will allow for more players to be encouraged to raid here on Lordaeron, because there will be no stigma of it being casual-unfriendly realm, and that means more players will actaully want to start playing on the realm and somewhat boost player numbers.
Anyway, that's my 2cents on the matter.
Aero
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Helu.
Revert the changes,fix sindra bugs,nerf lady hc (mostly ghosts) and everyone happy.
=)
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Ok so... Changes were made. Based on what, that's a mystery that I hope we will get an answer. I'm just going to point out the most ridiculous changes made.
Blood Prince Council. 25N version has so much HP now and it's so close to the 25H that... It makes no sense. There is no gear requirement for raid DPS to switch from Normal to Heroic, there's just a tanking gear requirement. Make the 25man (and the 10man) more affordable for lower geared raids and pugs. Tune it for 5.4k geared players, not for 6.4k geared players. Then sure you make the 25H encounter longer, forcing players into following all mechanics. But please, don't make 25N encounter have almost identical dps requirements.
Blood Queen Lana'thel. Hello. This is a mistake, right? Beating 25N now means that you also have the DPS to beat 25H, only difference is that you have slightly increased damge. Please don't make that. Revert back to the original tuning for 25H (including enrage), and lower the 25N back to something decent. The tuning of 25H was correct, the first kills of BQL 25H have all happened on the enrage timer, a few week after beating DBS 25H, which means the tuning was very good. Now 25H kill will be automatic once you beat 25N, this makes no sense in terms of progression.
Professor Putricide. What should have been nerfed is the Ooze. Not the boss HP. You used to need high DPS and good awareness to have all your raid not die to the various mechanics on this encounter. Now you still need exactly the same, simply because transitions have the same DPS requirements. So did you nerf? Not really. If you had nerfed the Oozes HP (and increased the boss HP by a few to compensate) then you would have ended up with a really good fight: guilds would be able to complete it if they enter the last phase with 25/25 alive, to beat the soft enrage of the last phase.
Sindragosa 10H. Hello? I remember, a year ago, when I was progressing Bane, we had to kill that boss. And that boss was very hard, and we were all 10HC geared, with a few 25Hc pieces (so essentially all DPS were in the 6.0-6.2 range). We struggled to beat the soft enrage (tank running out of CDs to take the breath on his face, therefore dying after the 4th breath of the last phase). And now... you add 1.4M HP. No 25N-10H geared guild will beat that. Wrong move. Of course, now, we still manage to do it but hey, our yesterday line up included a 6.8 ret, 6.5 war, 6.5 FDK, 6.4 Balance, 6.5 Shadow, 6.5 Hunter, 6.1 Demo. Do you really think all guilds that want to progress 10HC can line up that comp?
Bane. Ok. Whatever. With our overgeared comp, we killed on the enrage, but sure we lost 30s of DPS to people dying inside Frostmourne. But but but, again the fight is inacessible for progress. Don't tell me any sane 6.1k geared group will attempt it with any remote chance of success. Oh and also, 68k soul reaper expiration on a Protection Paladin? Thank you, but could you not break working mechanics? This amount of damage is by far overtunned. Don't tell me the only feedback of the fight you looked at was our solo tank attempt last week. We're all near BiS, or BiS, don't tune fights according to us, tune fights for others who want to progress them. Sure the HP increase is fine, but then make the enrage timer be the full 15 minutes, not 14. Fix the Soul Reaper, cause that's just a big no-no. Friendly reminder, Soul Reaper Expiration should be 50,000 unresistible Shadow Damage in 10N, 60,000 in 25N and 10HC and 70,000 in 25HC... so 68K on a Protection Paladin means that you typed "90,000" instead of "60,000". 6 & 9 ain't same ya know.
If I can make a suggestion. Lordearon players are actually playing the server. And namely, there are two guilds with very good insight about the whole ICC and several other guilds with good progress in ICC heroic. If you care a bit, then you might have asked what we feel about ICC (previous) tuning and we most likely would have given you very valuable informations that would have help you make much better tunning decisions. But so far, I'm unaware of any attempt at contacting any players... I really swear, it would have helped you [warmane devs] a lot. As players we all care about having a nice server, and if we can help we will help.
Peace,
Leyha.Edited: April 13, 2019 Reason: Coloring gone wrong...
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Hello, I am Shni, guild master of Raven,and as You asked for feedback I am more than happy to contribute.
-Lord Marrowgar
Any buff to this boss was not needed,boss was in perfect state like it was and buffing it will just make it harder for low progression guilds and that is something you don't need from first boss in instance.Also You did buff it for 5mil on 25 mand and 10 man Heroic ,needless to say that is also in my opinion wrong as % wise You buffed him for so much more on 10 man and yeah I think this boss was good as he was in first place.
-Lady
Any nerf is good,but what makes this boss so hard and so big RNG encounter are game breaking bugs with spirits.When they spawn they get triggered instantly if they span next to someone and ye its gg. They should work in the way that when they spawn they behave like adds on DBS,so they are stunned for 1 sec and then they start moving.This 1 sec gives you time to start moving away from it ,like this is it spawns where you are its done.It makes us skip this boss on Heroic and made this boss harder than LK 25 HC. Overall tuning of the boss was always off and I feel that 50% HP and mana shiled buff that is used to have was way to much with enrage timer cut, but this nerf is good but 4 to 5 mill is not something that will change things.Bug must be fixed and that HP will be not so important.We will give it a try but still it was doable before it will be doable now but 2nd boss of instance should not be about 6.5gs geared raid with super super tight raid setup and special talent choice and big layers of RNG for 6 min. As I already said fix spirits and this boss is fine but still its fine only for top 2 3 guilds so consider nerfing overall dmg from volley or spirits also.
-Gunship
Recently there are many bugs with this boss ppl getting teleported from cannons and start falling till they die for whatever reason.Also mostly when they die they get telleported as spirits to Barenns this is for hord ,also for whatever reason.Boss is doable ofc but its buggy and it something you should check.
-DBS
DBS got a 2 to 3 mil nerf , Honestly I don't know why, boss was fine tuned for lower geared guilds also but ok its whatever rly, it will help a bit lower progression guilds and its fine.
-Rotface
While not getting nerfed ,as there is 0 reason to be, this boss is bugged a lot and for a long time.Slime spray is happeing behind bosses back most os the time and also this invisible ooze thing that you are unable to fix from opening of the ICC is just annoying but ok. Also if you wipe , room will be bugged cos slime pools will keep spawning.Only way to fix this if you wipe is to pull fester and wipe so Rotface rests.This is something you should rly try to fix as for lower progress guild that are progressing this boss wipeing wastes sooooooooo much time cos of constant need to pull fester wipe so you can pull Rotface properly.
-Fester
About 3 mil hp nerf its fine for top guilds its whatever for lower progression guild it will help them kill boss as the only thing they are missing for it is gear as boss is rly big DPS check for newer guild.So think this is nice nerf no so big but still usefull for the once that are in need of it.
-PP
Also 5 mil nerf maybe a bit too much still nice nerf overall for top guilds this boss is rly easy now for guilds progressing it its big help so this nerf will make us see more guilds killing PP in next period of 1 to 2 monts at least 2 to 3 more guilds will kill it on horde side so I think that is good thing for server as progression is already done for so long.
-BPC
11 mil buff also I don't understand this but I guess you just switched thing around so now you need to do more dmg in more time , compared to less dmg in less time like it was before making raids play mechanics for longer time so i guess it was not needed but its fine.
-BQL
Big HP nerf this will help guild progressing sooo much and its ok but maybe you nerf it for too much .Also I got informed that HP on normal and HC 25 man is like 400k difference sooooooooooo idk what to say about that but that doesn't seem right.
-VDW
3 mil nerf whatever it was easy it is still easy.
-Sindragosa
Now here I don't know if you changed anything as there is no change log.Is enrage timer changed?Is dmg done by boss change?Only thing I know is that buggs are still there.Chill of the bone stacks are not working properly and mdps are getting way too much stacks.Its broken for several months already but its still up.
-LK
Its fine like it was.Also why you thought buffing BANE was good idea?like longer enrage timer ok good but why? LK was perfectly tuned buffing hp it was rly rly not needed.This will just demotiavate new guilds to even try it as they were not able to kill it before now they have 0 chance.We can still kill it its not problem but we need to bring op grp and its done the whole thing before it was that it was hard but still you didn't need to bring everyone that is 6.5 gs and you could bring some alts and have a bit of fun .This is rly bad change and this is from someone who is clearing this every week and helping ppl at least on Horde side to get it done.
-10 man
In general buffing 10 man content its rly bad its and you rly should get it back as it was.
-ToGC
no nerfs on Anub still ,also this is from someone who is getting tribute weekly but boss is way to buffed ,its not current content so there is 0 reasons for it to be that hard.With bis gear you should be able to cleave adds and as they have 2.1 mil instead of 700k that is not possible.Consider nerfing hp of add to 1.4 mil that would be buffed nicely but not so huge so you can kill it w/o block tank if you are high gear but w/e.
-Overall
some thing were done good,most not so good.Thing were you just change things and there is nothing on site what so ever and we go to raid and ooooo look things are changed, and there is no change log at all about what you changed ,for how much why?I think this is rly sloppy job and it should not be done like that by someone who is called best private server or someone how is doing private servers for soooooo long.Also idk why don't you already make official discord server and every private server has it and it works great for giving feedback talking with devs and gms reporting stuff and so on its much faster its much better and its free so i dont understand why ? also on Lordaredon there is 0 chance you can get gm online that is bs. Also every ticket respond is report it to bugtacker.
You guys are doing rly weak job on communicating things with playerbase and Lordaeron even tho population is higher that ever in last 2 years you still pay a little to non attendion. Hope this helps and hope things will change for better.
Cheers!Edited: April 13, 2019
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Member
Bring the original ToGC, ICC buffs when they were first implemented, it seems everyone forgot what those buffs looked like, **** these 2-3min fights with no raid dmg whatsoever.
Very little complaints about the nerfs and for the little buffs everyone has something to say lol...
lord got nerfed like 3 times, its about time some of the fights get buffed back a littleEdited: April 13, 2019
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Member
Hi,
I am Doomche, officer of The Legion Reborn, 8/12 25hc, 10/12 10hc guild on horde side of Lordaeron. Feedback time.
TL;DR - we need bug fixes, not mindless hp nerfs. 10man hc and 25 normal buffs are ridiculous.
Lord Marrowgar:
I'm not entirely sure what the reasoning of the buff was at all, but I welcome the totem change, it's now slightly more of a mechanical fight. Buff on10 was completely unnecessary since I always had a feeling 10hc required better geared group than 25hc. Remember that this is the opening HC boss for many guilds and they are not and should not be fully 6k+ guilds, 17m hp for 1st hc boss is way too much, especially if you haven't tweaked up the enrage timers.
Lady Deathwhisper
I believe time will tell that the hp/mana pool nerf was irrelevant, haven't tested this one out yet. You need to fix bugged ghosts (no delay on spawn, exploding from distance) and handle mc getting 3 targets with ridiculous dmg, not nerf her HP by a small margin.
Gunship
Fix bugged cannons, nobody cares about the buff/nerf.
Deathbringer Saurfang
This boss had been perfectly tuned, a first challenge to tell you if you're geared enough for heroic bosses and reward you with hc mark. Any change to its state was a surplus and it wasn't needed, even the dps requirement was not that high when u first get there. I haven't felt the reported blood boil bug, we killed it on 10hc and I didn't notice it. Might be a coincidence.
Rotface
I feel like this boss (besides mentioned bug fixes) is the one that could have used a tweak for which no one would object. Fight lasts for quite a long time, reducing hp by a little bit (say <5%) on 25hc won't make the fight any easier, just a bit less annoying. However, I'm fine with no nerfs at all, just fix the damn invisible ooze, spray and pool bugs.
Festergut
Eh, this boss has very basic mechanics and has always been used as a gear check and a dps check. Could have reset the enrage timer to retail instead of reducing his hp pool. Boss drops some great bis loot so it will help guilds trying to gear up for more heroics than this, I know a number of guilds that have been wiping on <2m. Don't think a change was that needed tho, since Fester had already been nerfed before.
Blood Prince Council
I, for one, really welcome the buff on 25hc. Now you can't mindlessly zerg the bosses for 2 minutes and then loot bis items. It requires more coordination and patience. However, why the hell would you buff normal to that level and make 10 man so unbearably long? And no, hp gain/loss has not been fixed, it occured to us on thursday 10hc multiple times.
Blood Queen Lanathel
OK, 25hc nerf on this boss is ridiculous. Not the hp nerf, I could partially understand that (I don't think it was needed), but enrage timer nerf now allows you at least 20 more seconds of dps with 16 people bitten. That's like a 30% hp nerf. It's ridiculous, dps requirement is now non-existing if you do the bites right for a boss that drops a hc mark. What for? I havent' seen the normal hp, but if it's really that high, this is laughable on both ends. Horrible changes.
Valithria Dreamwalker
Why did we nerf her again? She was perfectly fine, one of the easiest hc bosses in the raid. You didn't have to change anything.
Sindragosa 10hc
OK, we killed this boss a couple weeks ago and dps was tight. Don't feel like the buff will help. Then again, we are guild that should soon get to Sindra 25hc progress and our 10 core is good geared, what exactly was the reasoning behind buffing 10hc?
Can't really comment PP25hc, Sindra25hc and Bane/LoD since we're yet to get there.
Cheers,
Doomche
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Member
Hello, I am by no means in the same level of progression as some of the LoD farmers above, but I have 12/12 and 6/12 HC (25) and 7/12 HC (10) experience, so I have a bit of experience. Currently, I raid in two 25M guilds with two characters: one progressing hard modes (6/12 HC) and the other trying to progress Sindy25 and is 10/12 NM. Thereby, I would like to address this tuning from the PoV of someone who is going into harder heroics and someone trying to progress normal mode, both. Thus far, I can only comment first hand experience for 10HC on some bosses and 25NM, but will do 25HC tomorrow.
Lord Marrowgar:
A welcome change for me personally. Before this patch, we were going even 24M in 25HC and managing comfortably before enrage. 10HC is a similar story, low DPS was affordable. This week I've done it on 10HC and it was a welcome challenge, especially with the shaman totem not bugging it anymore, we adjusted accordingly. Even some PuGs were downing this boss on 25HC before, so I can understand the HP buff, given that Lord does drop some BiS and 2nd BiS items.
Deathbringer Saurfang:
A real ..eh.. change in terms of HP tuning. 25HC was never a challenge in terms of enrage, just beast management. Now it's whatever, more heroic DBWs for everyone, I guess.
However, it may be my personal feelings, but on 10HC the boiling blood was doing way too much damage. It was nearly one shotting me as a cloth wearer and we wiped once because people died to it. I do not have any personal logs, unfortunately, but this is from the logs of 10NM of someone else: "Deathbringer Saurfang: 10750 damage Boiling Blood, 16593 damage Blood Nova and 9500 damage Mark of the Fallen Champion per sec!" So imagine the damage on HC.
Festergut:
DPS check is now lower on HC, but higher on NM. This will help those guilds not being able to kill HC for those last few %s, but I don't believe it was necessary, as people were killing it fine before. It is harder on NM, though, which is gonna require lower guilds to minmax more and it's a big **** you to PuGs. This boss is extremely hard in the eyes of a ~5.5k GS player, even before the buff, trust me, so the buff on NM is a bit unjust.
Valithria Dreamwalker:
Now, it is no secret that a large portion of guilds are not killing abominations; they're having a Chillblains specced DK kite every abom. I speculate that the nerf on HC is to encourage people to do adds on VDW in a more natural way, but this won't be the case, because the adds and worms do a lot of damage.
Blood Prince Council:
We did not get to see the enrage timer on 25NM, but 37M on 25NM and 41M 25HC is such a stupid difference. Granted, if I could see what the enrage timer was, I would have been able to comment on the change -- the enrage definitely seems a lot longer. So if it's retail like values, it's a decent change, 'cause you actually have to now follow tactics and movement properly instead of brute forcing the boss in 2.5 mins.
Blood Queen Lana'thel:
WTF??? Again, same as above -- I don't know enrage so it's hard so say. But it has so much HP on normal making it impossible for a lot of lower geared raiders. However, 25HC now looks stupidly accessible to people doing 6-7 HCs now, which is also not, imo, a good thing, seeing as BQ is supposed to be a massive DPS check.
Now to address changes that we do want.
- GSB bugs are more of a quality of life thing. If they are fixed, we can stop wasting time on rebuffing, re-entering and having to unstuck from website and resummoning. It's really annoying, especially when you have limited time to raid.
- Rotface ooze! It's been so long and this is still a thing. If the ooze tank gets vile, it's a wipe completely if an invisible exists in the raid. And believe me, as someone from a guild progressing Rot25HC, it is very, very annoying when you wipe only to come back to a room full of slime puddles.
- Stacks on Sindragosa are incredibly quick to stack. It makes life harder for everyone in the raid.
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Member
Hey, there Sorcroc from Utopie bringing the perspective of a mid tier progressive guild over the 25HC changes (considering AL/Raven high tier). I'll try to synthetize the changes considering 3 types of guild : a high end, almost full gear guild (Guild S), a mid game guild with a good amount of HC gear (Guild A) and a rather new guild willing to start ICC 25HC (Guild B).
- Marrow :
S/A : Probably won't have any impact, the fight pretty much plays itself. Adding time to the fight won't bring any kind of pressure.
B : Makes the first boss who should be an introduction to HC tideous, making it a ridiculous gear check with NM gear.
- Lady :
S : An appreciable nerf but not significant enough, Lady's HP pool has never been the problem as mentioned earlier in the thread. A bit easier to do but still too much effort to put for such a boss.
A : Would be feasible but the effort just wouldn't be worth it. We were dodging the boss in HC and will continue to do so. (no changes)
B : Don't even bother pulling. (no changes)
- DBS :
S/A : Pretty easy boss, wiping to it makes it just more silly. (no changes)
B : Unlocks a rather easy way to get HC tokens and BiS gear, makes progress a bit easier but this nerf doesn't feel necessary at all.
- Fester
S : Yay probably won 20sec of fight. (no changes)
A : Eating maleable gooes will be even less punitive making the fight slightly easier. (if we suck it's okay)
B : An appreciable change considering the gear check Fester is. Dies a bit sooner in progress, more loots. (thx for the nerf)
- Professor Putricide
S : The fight isn't really a problem with the xp accumulated, the fight will be silghtly shorten. (up to no changes)
A : Probably makes the boss a bit easier but not that much considering the oozes are left untouched. This nerf feels disappointing and quite unnecessary 2 weeks after our first down. (meh ok why not)
B : The real challenge is more about killing the oozes really fast during P1/P2 to gain dps on boss and nuking them in transition to not wipe. So the nerf is mostly unsignificant unless you are able to hit Enrage. (doesn't make challenging mechanics easier)
- BPC
S : The fight drags on, forcing you to respect mechanics even more. Some will avoid dying from boredom, others will prefer suicide over this fight. (unnecessary but understandable)
A : Why do you do this to us ? No seriously, this change would be ok if the fight was consistent but it isn't (random vortexes, double vortexes on 1 rotation, instant vortex on switch, mid air kinetic explosion ...). It goes from painful but easy to absolutely dreadful, we'll see our pull tomorrow. (please help)
B : Pretty hard to grasp in that case, i guess it mainly depends on your rigor while doing it NM. Same thing as for "A", multiplying the chances of bad RNG by extanding the fight doesn't feel enjoyable. As for the DPS requirement it depends on how much the timer as been pushed. (no one asked for it)
- BQL
S : Some seconds of fight gained. (no changes)
A : We were about to stop using the Dragonblight spellsteal it's just free now. (thx i guess ?)
B : Considering NM hp are bugged, it's the same idea as others nerf. Makes gearing easier, why not. (Thanks Warmane ! please fix NM BQL)
- Valithria
S/A/B : One of the first bosses you do, plain useless change.
In the one hand these changes tends to help newcomers to ICC 25HC by nerfing some fights (DBS, Fester, BQL) even if the nerf is executed poorly (PP), in the other hand well balanced fight like Marrow' and BPC are upped even thought they never felt weak while progressing them. Which in my mind makes absolutely no sense at all. PP nerf is noticeable too for its effect on mid range guilds who struggle after BQL. Finally Lady's "nerf" shows Warmane's concern about the low amount of down of some bosses but it also shows how poorly they seem to understand the difficulties of these encounters (PP, Lady).
I'd like to finish with my biggest concern about thoses changes, which is Bane (LK 10HC) up.
Nothing goes right in this change. It's a purely optional boss during progress laying suptoptimal gear even for 25NM that is already doable only by the high end guilds. So why would you up it ? Upping it only results in closing a door that was already barely open. The only people that will be able to do it are the people mentioned earlier with insanely busted gear that no longer care about doing it apart for entertainment purpose. What's the purpose of increasing the accessibility of end game gear to make interesting content unachievable ? Nerfing 6 ICC bosses won't give the gear to the people who were almost able to do it. Because the guild around the 6k3-4 threshold for Bane (before nerf) don't benefit at all from the nerfs. If you could have enough gear for Bane by farming 8-9/12 HC now you need at least 10-11/12 (without lady) to be able to do it. Which means no new player (starting 25HC) will even PULL Bane untill at least 6 months. Because yes to do a 25 man raid you need 25 different persons and you can't give all the loot to 10 people for an off progress boss.
This isn't challenging content at this point that's just unfair and forever locked content.
Overall those changes are disappointing if not depressing. Seeing a private team so disconnected from its community and acting like a corporation on its own whithout even a decent (not even professional just decent) communication is just plain sad. As a recall, the last change log on Lordaeron is 7 months old, and that's still less months than gamebraking bugs we encountered.
Anyway, I genuinely hope the best for this server and that Warmane's team starts communicating with its community and taking note of ours concern.
Cya and don't forget the most important, have fun in Azeroth !Edited: April 13, 2019 Reason: Syntax
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