1. 3 Weeks Ago  
    Gods you are so dense when you want. There's nothing to do against a defeated mentality that's for sure.

    If you play on arenas as horde you'll quickly notice that you tend to lose against mirrors and other comps with healers, unless you are double dps. The reason is because you run out of mana faster than they do. You truly can't win an enemy team that has 2 trinkets that constantly give mana, you'll run oom faster. But as double dps horde has the upper hand. Humans can't be hunters, shamans, druids...

    I'm talking from my own experience, when I was horde that was the only problem I had playing with a healer. Never had any problem beating any setup as double DPS, only the obvious counters that pretty much every comp has.

    I just reached the conclusion that horde on average is just ****ing bad and that you should stop blaming it on the racial because there are ways to counter it. If you are unable to think critically and understand that a race has to use a gearing according to their racials, well that's your problem. You can easily swap a free trinket for more arpen, more resilience or whatever that you want to do, the meta is pretty much clear but not everything is black and white, although as I mentioned if the max capacity of your brain is copy paste a guide on the forums that probably doesn't suit your race well, nothing to add.


    PS: Yeah I called him names because he called me names aswell, simple as that.

    PS2:
    Yes because 322ap for 15sec with a 2min cd is better than 1250ap for 15sec with 45sec cd.
    A average of 40 ap is clearly better than a average of 416 ap.
    I mean, 11 Orcs with blood fury outperform one human with http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50343.
    The Orc clearly wins.
    Have you took in consideration the amount of arpen/strength that an orc can acquire through gems and PvE-offset? He's got 153 resilience to waste on PvE items/gems.
    Edited: 3 Weeks Ago

  2. 3 Weeks Ago  
    Have you took in consideration the amount of arpen/strength that an orc can acquire through gems and PvE-offset? He's got 153 resilience to waste on PvE items/gems.
    Ok, lets compare only the passive stats:
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50363 vs http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=51378
    167arp vs 153resilience
    In order to compensate the lower resilience the human can stack resilience gems.
    In the end the human has better passive stats across the boards than the orc, taking the trinket proc not even into account.

  3. 3 Weeks Ago  
    If you are unable to think critically and understand that a race has to use a gearing according to their racials, well that's your problem.
    Yeah I called him names because he called me names aswell, simple as that.
    Humen playing for their racials. They get EMFH which can be argued isn't OP in itself, but it's an enabler for them to get far better trinket in PvP. The trinket choices are more powerful than another niche/rp flavor racial. No matter if it's healer/dps trinket.
    Ah yes, because somebody else did, I must too.. smh

    Thing is, I thought we were talking about bgs here...
    It's a PvP thread. So it will bounce between BG/Arena balance/Racials/mercenary mode -subjects.

  4. 3 Weeks Ago  
    I just reached the conclusion that horde on average is just ****ing bad and that you should stop blaming it on the racial because there are ways to counter it. .
    You might not agree, but the majority of the pvpers believe that there is an advantage to playing human, thus they choose to roll human.

    There is a reason why blackrock pvp only server has twice the number of hordes as ally. YOU thinking there is no advantage has no bearing on the issue whatsoever.
    I play belf, because i like the racial better, among other things. We wipe the floor with ally when we do premades, even though we are from lordaeron and we dont have smournes and hc trinkets. But when i go solo, i end up playing with a bunch of blackrock players, most of them rolled ally btw so horde just sucks theory is ******ed on so many levels, and it is a freak show. This is because horde got ALL THE BLACKROCK, not just the horde players, and worse yet, we get mostly ally blackrock players.

    But the problem wasnt the "so op" racial, or at least it was pretty much tolerable before. It was the introduction of blackrock to crossrealms and the mercenary mode being what it is. Blackrock in crossrealms created longer que time for ally because blackrock is moslty ally and they are all pvp, so a direct effect on bgs. And the "attempt" to fix it resulted in the majority of blacrock players, mostly fresh chars, to be in Horde.
    Yea "horde" just sucks... For no reason...

    Right now, there are two bg brackets right? I'd very much like to know what's the situation on lower bracket, since they most likely dont get any blackrock players...
    PS:
    Seriously, i can't even say ******ed? Well that's R ******ed.:P
    Edited: 3 Weeks Ago

  5. 3 Weeks Ago  
    I just reached the conclusion that horde on average is just ****ing bad and that you should stop blaming it on the racial because there are ways to counter it.
    You didn't understand the problem.
    The human racial itself gives only a small advantage in BGs. That's not the issue.
    The problem is that every dedicated PvPer who wants to min-max his character picks human and the logical consequence is that the allys outgear the horde in almost every BG.

  6. 3 Weeks Ago  
    You might not agree, but the majority of the pvpers believe that there is an advantage to playing human, thus they choose to roll human.

    There is a reason why blackrock pvp only server has twice the number of hordes as ally. YOU thinking there is no advantage has no bearing on the issue whatsoever.
    I play belf, because i like the racial better, among other things. We wipe the floor with ally when we do premades, even though we are from lordaeron and we dont have smournes and hc trinkets. But when i go solo, i end up playing with a bunch of blackrock players, most of them rolled ally btw so horde just sucks theory is ******ed on so many levels, and it is a freak show. This is because horde got ALL THE BLACKROCK, not just the horde players, and worse yet, we get mostly ally blackrock players.

    But the problem wasnt the "so op" racial, or at least it was pretty much tolerable before. It was the introduction of blackrock to crossrealms and the mercenary mode being what it is. Blackrock in crossrealms created longer que time for ally because blackrock is moslty ally and they are all pvp, so a direct effect on bgs. And the "attempt" to fix it resulted in the majority of blacrock players, mostly fresh chars, to be in Horde.
    Yea "horde" just sucks... For no reason...

    Right now, there are two bg brackets right? I'd very much like to know what's the situation on lower bracket, since they most likely dont get any blackrock players...
    PS:
    Seriously, i can't even say ******ed? Well that's R ******ed.:P
    That's right I don't agree with the majority of PvP pros, because I find the horde racials more attractive and more flexible in multiple enviroments. As a paladin you have more chances to kill a healer as a belf because of the racial, as an undead you have more chances to win a CC arena because of the racial and the list goes on.

    As I said earlier I think the majority of people fails to understand that in example the majority of pvp guides you see around are based on a specific race and gearing has to go accordingly to the race of choice. If you roll human you have to gem everything to resilience atleast to mitigate the 153 resilience you lose from the medallion in order to stay competitive. You don't want to do it? fine, but if you happen to encounter a mirror class with 200 more resilience than you, you can have 2 trinkets that you'll die anyway: If you are a paladin you'll quickly notice that you lose the mana fight because your judgements won't pierce their sacred shield, while they will.

    The double trinket advantage is only beneficial to healers, that's why if you are horde and you face an alliance mirror were the healer is human you'll lose the mana fight 100% guaranteed resulting in a certain defeat.

    However, horde has the upper hand in double DPS setups because of the racials. Lock and shaman if troll you can 3 shot anything in less than 2 seconds because of the ridiculous haste racial added to heroism. As ret/hunter you can time the silence and global them easy.

    There are many strong points for horde when it comes to double DPS but nothing seems to work out for this faction, because the average horde is beyond bad.

    And about the Blackrock "pros". I have seen more blackrock backpedalers than lordaeron ones, which leds to the conclusion that they are basically noobs that roll on blackrock just because they think it will give them some kind of superiority.

    In this game the majority of times people just resorts to things like this to deal with their own insecurities.

    In my oppinion as I have said I think the human racial and the trinket must remain untouched and horde needs a pvp guild if you want something to change, and also as a final solution a good idea could be that dampening buff that reduces the healing done on arenas.

    PS: I'll correct grammar later.
    Edited: 3 Weeks Ago

  7. 3 Weeks Ago  
    @Amdus
    You are in almost everything wrong that you just said and you keep repeating false statements about the human race on which I have already proven you wrong.

    The human race is by far the best in terms of pvp, no matter if it's about passive stats or trinket procs.
    There is no race diversity in pvp as you claim. Look at the arena ladder. Look at BGs. Almost everybody in the competitive PvP picks human and that for a good reason.
    The human race is by far the best and that's a FACT. Stop denying FACTS.
    Edited: 3 Weeks Ago

  8. 3 Weeks Ago  
    You are still missing the point. Even if everything you said was absolutely true, it doesnt change the fact that pvp players roll human. I already said i like the belf racial better, but it does not matter.
    Pvp imbalance is not in arena, it's in bgs. And currently it is because horde group always consists of fresh blackrock majority.
    The reason for this is somewhat related to human racial, but not entirely, we are just seeing the ripple effects of human racial amplified by the blackrock server's insta 80+rele gear/pure pvp conditions. And it wouldnt be imbalanced if not for warmane's so clever decision to implement the mercenary mode, because then ally would get all the blackrock players not horde. It was actually perfectly fine for horde before mercenary mode.

  9. 3 Weeks Ago  
    @Amdus
    You are in almost everything wrong that you just said and you keep repeating false statements about the human race on which I have already proven you wrong.

    The human race is by far the best in terms of pvp, no matter if it's about passive stats or trinket procs.
    There is no race diversity in pvp as you claim. Look at the arena ladder. Look at BGs. Almost everybody in the competitive PvP picks human and that for a good reason.
    The human race is by far the best and that's a FACT. Stop denying FACTS.
    That's your oppinion not a fact. Not all classes are available to humans so it's not a matter of superior race, it's a matter of a stagnant meta that consists in warrior/dk/paladin/priest. I have played both factions and I can assure you that having double trinket benefits healers above DPS, an that you can compensate through other strategies. And another reason of why you are extremely wrong is because blizzard never inteded to have everyone BiS in Wotlk, back on retail maybe there were 2 or 3 shadowmournes per realm before the last ICC nerf, and even when it got nerfed not even 5% of the total plate users had shadowmourne, the same goes for heroic trinkets and off-set. If you want to bring a real balance on arenas start by suggesting gear limitations instead of ridiculous medallion buffs or racial nerfs/buffs.

    You are still missing the point. Even if everything you said was absolutely true, it doesnt change the fact that pvp players roll human. I already said i like the belf racial better, but it does not matter.
    Pvp imbalance is not in arena, it's in bgs. And currently it is because horde group always consists of fresh blackrock majority.
    The reason for this is somewhat related to human racial, but not entirely, we are just seeing the ripple effects of human racial amplified by the blackrock server's insta 80+rele gear/pure pvp conditions. And it wouldnt be imbalanced if not for warmane's so clever decision to implement the mercenary mode, because then ally would get all the blackrock players not horde. It was actually perfectly fine for horde before mercenary mode.
    It still comes from the same principle, alliance has a bunch of dedicated pvp guilds that queue BG's 24/7 while horde doesn't have a single one, it's easy to know that the chances to encounter a fully geared premade are almost 100%. And the imbalance is both in arenas and bg's, if you check the ladder you'll quickly notice that over 90% of the teams are alliance, if I recall correctly 48 out of 50 are alliance, it doesn't look balanced does it?
    And about the blackrock issue there's nothing that can be done about aslong as cross-realm exist, and I'm fine with it, more players, more bg's.

    How long it will take until you realize this would get fixed by making a pvp guild and facing the enemy premades? Alliances are not as good as you think they are, and the racials outside of arena don't have any impact, just buy free action potions go with double trinket too and problem solved.

  10. 3 Weeks Ago  
    as an undead you have more chances to win a CC arena because of the racial
    I believe undeads' racial shares CD with the trinket, so there goes that.

    If you roll human you have to gem everything to resilience atleast to mitigate the 153 resilience you lose from the medallion in order to stay competitive.
    if you happen to encounter a mirror class with 200 more resilience than you, you can have 2 trinkets that you'll die anyway
    If 153 resilience is so good, and 2nd PvE trinket is bad (or not beneficial), why don't you see hundreds of humen using the PvP trinket instead of 2nd PvE one?
    Well, ofc mirror class has upper hand, or advantage, even without the extra resilience.

  11. 3 Weeks Ago  

    And the imbalance is both in arenas and bg's, if you check the ladder you'll quickly notice that over 90% of the teams are alliance, if I recall correctly 48 out of 50 are alliance, it doesn't look balanced does it?
    The reason why so many ally players are at the top is because arena is gear+comp>skill. And the trinket advantage of warrior+hpally is really undeniable which is actually the 90% of top 50 are. But when i said there is no imbalance issue in arena, i meant you only have yourself and your partner to blame if you lose, even though as i said comp matters much more than skill. Otherwise you are suggesting that all the good players just happen to choose that comp and that race, which is just nonsense.

    And about the blackrock issue there's nothing that can be done about aslong as cross-realm exist, and I'm fine with it, more players, more bg's.
    There is a lot to do about it. Disable the mercenary mode for example! Let the freshly made ally toons from blackrock fight in the ally side.

    It seems to me, you are commenting on something which you have no personal experience. I recently started spamming wsg and the 90% of the time i get a team full of fresh blackrock players against all icecrown players on the other side. As for your premade idea, it's being done and we are mopping the floor with ally, but you can't always do premades. And also this imbalance problem didnt exist up until the mercenary mode.

  12. 3 Weeks Ago  
    I believe undeads' racial shares CD with the trinket, so there goes that.


    If 153 resilience is so good, and 2nd PvE trinket is bad (or not beneficial), why don't you see hundreds of humen using the PvP trinket instead of 2nd PvE one?
    Well, ofc mirror class has upper hand, or advantage, even without the extra resilience.
    45s CD for the undead racial after using the trinket.

    Resilience is good, and I don't see humans using the medallion because they have the racial but all of them have to gem full resilience, so there you go sacrificing a proc for stats, not always good, but OP for heals with solace and bauble.

    The reason why so many ally players are at the top is because arena is gear+comp>skill. And the trinket advantage of warrior+hpally is really undeniable which is actually the 90% of top 50 are. But when i said there is no imbalance issue in arena, i meant you only have yourself and your partner to blame if you lose, even though as i said comp matters much more than skill. Otherwise you are suggesting that all the good players just happen to choose that comp and that race, which is just nonsense.


    There is a lot to do about it. Disable the mercenary mode for example! Let the freshly made ally toons from blackrock fight in the ally side.

    It seems to me, you are commenting on something which you have no personal experience. I recently started spamming wsg and the 90% of the time i get a team full of fresh blackrock players against all icecrown players on the other side. As for your premade idea, it's being done and we are mopping the floor with ally, but you can't always do premades. And also this imbalance problem didnt exist up until the mercenary mode.
    I tried to give a heads up and tried to motivate horde players to take action and try to be positive on the situation but as usual hammering cold iron won't have any effect.

    Been playing here since 2013, certainly I mustn't have any personal experience, I guess transfering was the best I could've done. Haven't lost a single BG on the ally side tbh.

  13. 3 Weeks Ago  
    You wouldnt lose of course, because you are constantly playing against blackrock players, not horde. The guy who run away from horde tries to motivate it, that's rich. Why dont you just simply accept that the mercenary mode as it is just gives a huge advantage over ally? Oh no, it must be because horde players suck, even though the team is made up of half blackrock players with ally toons.
    To reiterate, in order to balance the battlegrounds, you need to roll back on mercenary mode, it's that simple.
    Why is it that the lower bracket battlegrounds have a healthy competetive balance and the high bracket does not? Because the blackrock fresh newbies are only in high bracket. It has nothing to do with horde, and it has nothing to do with premades, exclude all the premades, ally still wins because they have more people who know their classes and better geared on their side. What horde has is the majority of ally Blackrock players who will just go afk when they sent to horde.

  14. 3 Weeks Ago  
    I don't see humans using the medallion because they have the racial but all of them have to gem full resilience, so there you go sacrificing a proc for stats, not always good, but OP for heals with solace and bauble.
    Really feels like talking to a wall. How often do I have to tell you again and again that you DON'T LOSE ANY STATS WITH DOUBLE PVE TRINKETS, you only gain stats.

    That's really first grade math and I don't understand why it doesn't go in your head:
    DBW hc has 167arp passive
    Medallion has 153resilience
    167-153=14
    As you can see DBW hc has 14 more stat points than the medallion, taking the trinket proc not even into account.
    It doesn't matter that the human warrior has to stack resilience gems, he will still have 14 more stat points than the orc warrior in the end.

  15. 3 Weeks Ago  
    Thousand times discussed topic with evidences literally on every corner of PVP community that human racial is OP, yet there are still some smartasses that think the opposite...
    Warmane should really put more effort on erasing trolling posts...

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