WotLK Blood DK and tanking soul reapers

[Hemko2v]

I've finally started to gear my DK up quite a bit and I feel ready for bane attempts. I just need clarification on two things when it comes to tanking soul reapers in partiuclar.

1: First things first, as far as I understand it this is how soul reaper works: LK hits you with a weapon swings and applies soul reaper, which pops for 50-60k shadow damage 5 seconds later, and after that he gets a huge haste increase (or does he get he haste increase on the first weapon hit?). I'm assuming it's the shadow damage that usually kills the tank, does that mean it's still safe to use CD's after the initial weapon hit? Or do I have to use defensives before he uses it?

2: Secondly, which defensives are usually suffucient enough to deal with soul reaper, and what should my defensive rotation be? Is AMS enough to deal with it? Is Flawless fang enough? If someone could explain to me what their defensives rotation looks like (including asking for sacs or PI) that would be great

[aymxn7]

I've finally started to gear my DK up quite a bit and I feel ready for bane attempts. I just need clarification on two things when it comes to tanking soul reapers in partiuclar.

1: First things first, as far as I understand it this is how soul reaper works: LK hits you with a weapon swings and applies soul reaper, which pops for 50-60k shadow damage 5 seconds later, and after that he gets a huge haste increase (or does he get he haste increase on the first weapon hit?). I'm assuming it's the shadow damage that usually kills the tank, does that mean it's still safe to use CD's after the initial weapon hit? Or do I have to use defensives before he uses it?

2: Secondly, which defensives are usually suffucient enough to deal with soul reaper, and what should my defensive rotation be? Is AMS enough to deal with it? Is Flawless fang enough? If someone could explain to me what their defensives rotation looks like (including asking for sacs or PI) that would be great

Soul Reaper has essentially 3 parts:
1: initial strike, which hits hard and can be resisted by Sindragosa’s Flawless Fang
2: DoT that hits 5 seconds after the shadow strike which can’t be resisted by SFF
3: Melee haste which halves the LK’s swing timer for 5 seconds.

What usually challenges a DK tank in particular is the melee haste the LK gains.

Most tanks probably have a different rotation but this is what I do.
I haven’t tanked Arthas in a while, but this is how I’d arrange my CDs:

SR1: SFF (before SR), Vampiric Blood, T10, AMS (DoT hit), Hand of Sacrifice from prot pal for hasted strikes
SR2: Pala – SFF + Divine Protection
SR3: SR1 but Divine Sacrifice from prot pal instead of HoSac
SR4: IBF
SR5: SR1with HoSac from hpala/retri
SR6: Pain Suppression + Army for hasted strikes / Paladin takes with PS and/or DP if he has it up

Some added notes:
Make sure you have,
10% physical damage reduction on you at all times from priest/shaman,
Demo shout on boss from off tank / fury warrior,
Earth Shield and Sacred Shield.


You have Rune Tap up for every reaper so be fast on Death Strike and RT binds when you anticipate getting low. You can also be ready Death Pact your ghoul / army.

Paladin can also tank boss with externals / his own CDs (Ardent is a good safety net) if you die and take soul stone / wait for Rebirth.

[aymxn7]

Also feel free to weave in your 2nd trinket as you want. I typically use skeleton key as my 2nd trinket and pop it for the first melee swing after the DoT when it’s up.
PTS is also good ‘cause you get a slight bit more tankiness for his melee swings and the dodge bonus procs when the trinket isn’t on CD – can be very helpful for the LK’s hasted autos.
ToGC trinket makes your Vampiric stronger or can be used with an external when you’re struggling for CDs.
I don’t particularly like PP10 trinket on this fight because stacks drop too frequently cos of tank swaps and LK stopping to cast.

[Beanlord]

Using army for the hasted strikes is a particularly bad idea as you cannot dodge or parry during the channel. If you have to use it, might as well do it right before the strike or right before the dot for the extra DR. Dks should generally not struggle with reaper at all, especially in 25 mans where there are generally at least 3 paladins that provide with sacs. Your cooldowns are on a short timer and either counter one part of reaper completely (AMS for the DoT) or basically halv the damage of all 3 parts (IBF). Aymxn is probably right that the worst part of the reaper for a dk in particular is the melee hasted lk since dks don't have block or anything similar (bear's physical absorb on crit), but you have death strikes, rune tap, mark of blood even along with passive and active healing from the rest of the raid. All in all dks are probably the absolute best tank for reapers due to the abundance, low cd timer and strength of their cds.

[aymxn7]

ah yeah, rifo is right. in this case you'd probably want to channel army for the DR then pain suppression to get both DoT and melee swings.

i just noticed you're doing bane, in which case you might not have a disc priest, so what you can do is have hand of sac from prot pal for the initial strike and dot and then the paladin taunts with something like glyphed salvation or 4 set for the hasted strikes -- his ardent shouldn't have popped at this point. honestly, there's a lot of things you can do depending on raid comp. e.g. hunter kiting LK if both tanks absolutely cannot take the melee swings, chain lay on hands/improved loh. your palas should probably be saving aura mastery for infests, so best not to use it for the initial reaper strike. the important part is chalking up a solid rotation with your raid and trying your best to stick to it, and communicating backups actively during the raid if something goes wrong.

[jendah]

Unless you intend to solo-tank it's imho safest and best way to taunt swap. 1 of you eats soul reaper magical dmg other uses defensive(s) to counter LK meele haste. That way you would have vampiric blood for your every turn (+save runes for healing) that should be more than enough. IF can be saved as backup this way. And ams anytime soul reaper is about to hit you.

Some tanks I saw stood quite a bit apart on soulreaper, so LK wasted a lot of attack speed buff running.

[Hemko2v]

Soul Reaper has essentially 3 parts:
1: initial strike, which hits hard and can be resisted by Sindragosa’s Flawless Fang
2: DoT that hits 5 seconds after the shadow strike which can’t be resisted by SFF

This part has me a bit confused, maybe I'm missing something but isn't the first part a pshysical strike that shouldn't be be affected by any magical resistance? And the second part is shadow damage which should be partly resistable with SFF?

[Beanlord]

This part has me a bit confused, maybe I'm missing something but isn't the first part a pshysical strike that shouldn't be be affected by any magical resistance? And the second part is shadow damage which should be partly resistable with SFF?

The initial hit of SR is something called shadowstrike damage. It deals either physical or (resistable) shadow damage depending on which will do more damage to you. Since there's no way you have more passive resistance (as a DR%) than you do armor, the initial hit will always be plain shadow damage (which can be resisted). That is why it is affected by auras and SSF. SSF alone guarantees a minimum of 30% DR(with shadow aura/shadow protection buff) as far as I can remember. An aura mastery will give you a minimum of 20% DR. Either way, the point is that the initial hit is extremely trivial to deal with and should never be an actual threat.

The DoT itself cannot be resisted in any way. The damage it deals is subject to DR modifiers like Blade Barrier, frost presence, etc.

[Hemko2v]

The initial hit of SR is something called shadowstrike damage. It deals either physical or (resistable) shadow damage depending on which will do more damage to you. Since there's no way you have more passive resistance (as a DR%) than you do armor, the initial hit will always be plain shadow damage (which can be resisted). That is why it is affected by auras and SSF. SSF alone guarantees a minimum of 30% DR(with shadow aura/shadow protection buff) as far as I can remember. An aura mastery will give you a minimum of 20% DR. Either way, the point is that the initial hit is extremely trivial to deal with and should never be an actual threat.

The DoT itself cannot be resisted in any way. The damage it deals is subject to DR modifiers like Blade Barrier, frost presence, etc.

That's interesting, did not know this. Does the DoT part only respond to direct DR modifiers, or do magic shields such as AMS work?

EDIT: Nvm, you answered that in an earlier reply!