Honestly I haven't been playing much and I kinda burned myself out with all the playing/testing/glitching etc etc etc I can't explain to you why I say everything I do, but what I can say is that if you just trust me rather than look for reasons to disagree you will find most of it is the puzzling truth.
Yes on paper the gcd shouldn't be affected blah blah blah, but it is. Just try.
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Ello there mate. Nice dps, you could go quite a bit higher though. Remember to double up on the explosive traps. Since your explosive traps gcd is 24 seconds and it exists for 30 place a trap 25 seconds before Saurfang combat begins and then play another trap after your first one activates. Easy 4k dps increasejust for you.
this is the MM playstyle where you point and shoot
sorry about ForteXorcist being a huge blob of trash middle of my screen, i recently redid my UI and havent set up FX on hunter
http://armory.warmane.com/character/...ecrown/profile
Remember to kiss yourself!!
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EDIT: Played some SV, basically normalish SV with Black arrow replaced with Explosive trap 3 AM raiding btw POGCHAMP, could be better wasnt used to yet being in melee range etc.
yeye im lazy i didnt use MD on CD or dps beasts.
would be nice if you could put ur own comparsion, ik ik raids are not same etc. but will be close enough
i consumables used: 40 agi food, haste pot and flask of endless rage.
You also gimped the fk out of your dps by skipping frost traps, disengage, raptor strikes and not using rocketboots.
But keep it up man. You're just at the tip of the iceberg for one of the most pog hidden metas in the game.Edited: November 12, 2019
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I think it would be very important that you do some theorycrafting to determine the real stat values.Stats
Agi > Crit > Haste > Arp
You mentioned that you have 90-95% crit chance when fully buffed. Crit tends to lose it's value the more you have from it while the value of AP and ArP increases. I doubt that Agi and Crit are your best stats in highend gear.
I'd assume it's more like:
ArP cap > Agi > Crit > Haste
Keep in mind that for other specs that have also a high portion of magic dmg, such as Frost DK, it's still worth to go for 100%ArP. It's likely that for SV thats also the case.
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... You didn't address any of my points yet keep saying you are correct. I went over your video, went over external material from warmane, tested it myself.
https://youtu.be/DrxiFN_9QYY
You can see here how my gcds are affected by 581 haste, 581 haste + lust, 0 haste. The gcd of traps always stays the same.
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HomerJay, I'm not trying to be rude, but to put it in a way that makes more sense, I spent over 250 hours and 100,000 gold gemming, talent tree respecing, I have 4 full armor sets, 3 bows (haste, crit, hit), I have tried every weapon type possible with all plausible enchants, I have done 50+ raids in survival and I have levelled and maxed 3 hunters on icecrown alone. I choose to not go off of outdated bull**** info or what is supposed to be correct.
If you start messing around with macros and use shift modifiers and pet modifiers you'll soon realize how broken the class is, and just recently I reset my computer and lost a lot of personal macros and honestly I just don't feel like putting fourth more effort into explaining what I've already tested for myself, then written out for everyone to read.
Good luck in your endeavors, if you'd like specifics feel free to message me in game but honestly, if I explained everything then what was the point of working at it myself.
The entire point of my guide was to open new lanes, get people trying and testing things for themself and break the constant stream of misinformation and all you're doing at this moment is receding all the effort I put into this, arp cap on survival is bull**** man, how much more forthright do I need to be? How many more hours and money would you like me to sink into this before I'm supposed to be enlightened haha.
Good luck.
>You can see here how my gcds are affected by 581 haste, 581 haste + lust, 0 haste. The gcd of traps always stays the same.
Because you're so adamant about this one thing and it's actually bothering me, go make a troll hunter, use berserking, use rabid, use /cast [pet], use improved aspect of the dragonhawk, use bloodlust, use speed potions, use aspect of the hawk glyph, use a zods bow. Maybe it's not supposed to work, maybe it is, what I know is that this ISNT RETAIL, this is bugmane, and I can definitely cast my traps at a 0.5 GCD in ICC raids, it's hard to test exactly what causes it because I can't exactly pull together 25 characters whenever I please so I haven't narrowed it down yet, but I'm pretty sure it's an oversight in the spaghetti code with /cast [pet] and improved aspect of the hawk during DBW proc, I don't ****ing know I might think I'm Stephen Hawking but without having superintelligence there are just some things I can't figure out which is why instead of addressing everything you said I retort again with, just go try it out.Edited: November 14, 2019
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Well that's all fair n square that you did all this testing but that doesn't make you right just because you believe to be right. Especially the way you set up your testing is defective since all you did is collecting personal anecdotes and experiences in always varying scenarios (the amount of your crits, random boss mechanics (spiked at marrowgar, mind control at lady, frozen at sindragosa, taken by valks at LK, different order of bites at BQ), amount of set bonus procs, amount of mistakes you do with losing auto shots (which I pointed out are probably quite big because you don't have a swing timer addon) or making mistakes in your priorisation of spells during a boss fight).
In the field of statistic you would call that a lack of reliability since the measuring accuracy is fairly low (and thus no validity can be granted either) in comparison of the standard procedure to run the numbers through a program like rawr. This standardises your actions in a sterile environment and factors our all effects that can falsify the result.
You choose to neglect this information and call it straight up bull**** without any reliable source given. "What is supposed to be correct" has been correct for a reason and unless you provice reasonable explanations there is no reason to deviate.
Granted, I gave you the benefit of the doubt that agi is better than arp for sv hunters if you play the way you play but stating that arp is generally inferiour to agi for sv hunters, even when playing the ordinary playstyle, is not what the numbers give us.
I appreciate your guide overall since most of it is correct and it's refreshing to see a new approach to the meta, especially with the prospect of indoctrinating the added benefit of weaving in auto hits. But you should really try to cope with criticism. So far you haven't refuted any of my points yet only repeated your arguments without evidence. To showcase it again regarding your last point:
Can you please then just record one fight of yours in icc where the gcd of traps is lowered to 0.5 seconds? If there is legit something you can't explain but is correct nontheless it shouldn't be much of a hassle. I don't understand the "/cast [pet]" macro. You mean including pet attacks into your signature shots macros? At least in your video you can see the gcd isn't lowered at all when you have dbw procc + Improved Aspect of the Hawk running.
I maybe actually start a bit pve on icecrown and then i can test it myself. Although I currently only have a nightelf hunter thus no berserking as race ability :( But viewing my own and your footage i highly doubt it has anything to do with haste. Elsewise it would have lowered the gcd at least a little bit.
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And what's the difference between personal anecdotes that I have personally tested and other people from 10 years ago who personally tested aside from the fact that the information I'm passing out is actually current and relevant, sure it could be completely wrong, I'm not asking anybody believe what I say. I wrote this guide for fun for people to go out and have fun. It's actually so tired and boring to read over and over "arp arp arp" you can't even mention hunter without someone saying arp.
Here's an interesting personal anecdote which is probably completely wrong because I just verbal diarreah and nothing I say has any actual testing or real determined value, but just for fun I'll throw this out here for some speculation.
If you make a macro such as
#showtooltip[nomod]
/Startattack
/Cast [nomod] explosive trap
/Cast raptor strike
/Petattack
The shift mods seem to bug out hunters a bit, and I have done a lot of really glitchy things by sheer bugs from using shift mods.
An interesting thing about this macro is that you're casting two abilities at once, and if your raptor strike activates before your explosive trap does it seems to count your trap as a melee spell(?) Sort of like enhancement shaman, which may be a clue into what allows for a lower gcd on trap, since traps are the only actual offensive spell hunters have it may be that when you're within melee range the trap is counted as a melee spell from the raptor strike cast.
I don't expect anybody to believe what I tell them, but I really hope people do, I really hope when people see all the effort I put into this that they see I'm not bull****ting. That comes in the same vein as me writing this advanced guide, that the naysayers can keep living in the meta bubble but others who want to try something new and think outside the box then they can.
You could see just fine above that edgyhunter read my guide, gemmed and enchanted how I said, and even at a novice level he was pulling 16k in ICC. I have no patience in proving myself because I have no need to. Believe me and try it or don't, I don't care, but quoting outdated info from 2008 and not factoring in how buggy this server is, is being a bit willfully ignorant.
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I have been working out of my home city for a few weeks and working long days. So I don't have much free time until Christmas to really get back online. I'd love to see you try out all this stuff and honestly anybody other than you I would have never given any length of reply. But I like you because you opened up sv hunter for me, so you got me on the hook.
I have a few raids fully recorded but I wiped my computer. I'll try to do a restore and find an old video or I'll sit down for a few hours and record some stuff for you, but as I said I lost most of my personal macros which makes playing really hard for me because of how much of how I play was woven into my macros.
Btw I don't use an auto shot timer because I don't like so much visual garbage clogging up my display, so I use the sound of the auto shot and auto attack to time my stutter steps, it's less accurate but there's too much to focus on to add another visual cue for me. I usually end up playing with both hands on the keyboard to be able to hit extra keys.
I'll get back to you soon.
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The difference between your personal anecdotes and the data from back then is that the data from back then is not based on personal anecdotes yet cold data. These theories and playstyles evolved due to spreadsheets and calculations (Shandara creating the most famous and well rounded one to this day). As I previously mentioned it's the most reliant way to achieve solid data.
Just to recap your point of the examplified macro u posted: You find it buggy and suspicious that when you use that macro Raptor Strike and Explosive Trap go off at the same time? If that is the case I am sorry but that is absolutely normal and blizzlike and absolute basic hunter knowledge. Raptor Strike works just like Heroic Strike from Warriors. All it does is enhancing your next auto attack with your main hand (at least for hunters it's that way, maybe for warriors also the offhand), and that is happening off your regular gcds of course. Raptor Strike doesn't trigger a gcd of any kind, thus you can use it at the same time as your Explosive Trap. The only reason this doesn't always work is because normaly your Auto Hit goes automatically off if you shot an Auto Shot before when running into melee range (you can disable that feature in the normal wow settings). So when running in you often gotta run a few extra yards to the area where your explosive trap gets triggered by the boss. In the meantime your Auto Hit gets triggered. If that is not what you mean please elaborate further because I didn't understand.
Also I don't get why you refuse to get an Auto Hit/Shot timer. It's a tiny bar but makes life so much easier. Either you pull waaaaay more dps (Auto Shot being #1 damage source for hunters) since you can't constantly anticipate your new Auto Shot Timer since you got to factor in Berserking/Haste Pot/Lust/Rapid Fire and especially Improved Aspect of the Dragonhawk which proccs all the time. If you do anticipate all that (probs to you for having that attention to detail) and have a constant inner clock running to time it well it would still make sense to get it since you can put your attention elsewhere (like tracking your Sniper Training buff). You are are so far and advanced with your theorycrafting about weaving in Auto Shots, different playstyle approaches and macros but you lack one of the absolute basics of maximising your dps as a hunter.
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Edited: August 8, 2021
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halp, why is halion's shadowrealm hitbox is such a big meme. traps dont trigger half the time.
excuse me for good music, **** was playing from YT on background
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The GCD is not affected by haste,its just your client.Up to Cataclysm there was a spell queue system,which allowed u to queue your next spell/ability,before the previous cast ends... in other words - spell batching.
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So what you wana say that survival do a better dps then MM ?
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Last season frostmourne, survival hunter was kinda on par with MM in early content. Later on, with ARP pleasing MM so much more, you will end up always dealing less dmg than MM. I'm sad about using frosttrap to trigger LnL because that's a bug, it was hotfixed on retail in patch 3.2 (https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Lock_and_Load). Preventing to be able to proc LnL on cooldown - idk why but it still exist here. It's cool because it actually makes survival viable to one point however, MM > SV as sad as it is.
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