Icecrown - Ideal Raid Composition for ICC10, TOC10, & TOC25 & ICC25 Pugs

[Angers1]

Hello folks, I've noticed a fair amount of the community on icecrown has some fairly hefty GS requirements for pug raids - based on the reading I've done that isn't going to change anytime soon - c'est la vie.

Furthermore, the character I'm playing is a melee dps (fury warrior) which are in a popular class so obtaining pug raid spots can be challenging.

So I'm trying to be proactive and creating pug raid groups rather than qq'ing. I've lead a couple 10 man alt ICC raids so I can secure a spot and gear up. My progression from around 5.2k gs via heroics/voa towards 5.4k gs has been pretty slow but it's coming.

For pug 10 mans I'd like confirmation this is the idal raid composition. 2 tanks, 2 heals, 6 dps - ideally 3 spots melee and 3 spots ranged dps or would it be better to go 2 melee and 4 spots for ranged?

For pug 25 mans I'm unsure of ideal raid composition. Keep in mind this is for folks still gearing up in the low to mid 5k gs range - ideally the tanks a bit more geared. Assuming 2 tanks, unsure about how many heals which would in turn determine the # of dps and I'm unsure what's the ideal melee vs ranged breakdown for dps. Primarily I'm asking for ICC25 Pug gear up raids - so fights would be on normal mode except for gunship. I suspect the 25 man pug would break down around PP or there abouts. It seems that fight favors ranged dps.

So if someone more knowledgeable is willing to give me some tips for 25 man raid composition I'd appreciate it. Mostly for ICC25 nm but also TOC25.

[dolcokidol]

Yes, for 10 man raids it's usually 2 tanks, 2 healers and 6 dps.
For 25 man raids it's usually 2 tanks, 5 healers and 18 dps.
In both, there's some wiggle room since some bosses can be solo tanked, some healers are good or overgeared so then you can have 1/1/9 for 10m raid.
In 25, with pugs, I'd recommend sticking to 5 healers and 2 tanks, because out of those 5 healers only 2 are probably worth their salt, remaining are either getting carried or are compensated by their gear. When you have 4 very good healers you know are good, then you don't need the 5th. If it's 3 healers (Holy Paladin, Discipline priest and Resto Druid/Shaman) and they're all good then you can just go 3 heals.
Bug again, for pugs take the usual 2/5/18 route since someone will go offline by 5th boss.

[Disktrasa]

In WOTLK almost every class brings something to the table, you want every class and every specc in your raid.
The must 2 must have are Demo warlock and Shaman for bloodlust since they bring the biggest most benefitial buffs in a PvE raid, paladin buffs are good too so 3 paladins is good, Frost DK or enha shaman gives 20% melee haste which is a must for every melee class, if you're a Warrior you want to have "Feral druid" with you since it gives 30% more bleed dmg which greatly increase your Warrior / Hunter (Rogues who uses rupture) damage, Combat rogues increases the physical dmg the boss takes by 4%, Hunters/ Blood DK's gives the raid 10% AP bonus, the list goes goes on, All in all you want a very diversed raid, not too many ranged of the same class and the same can be said with melees, I allways put my limit to max 3 of the same specc.

In 10man raids you want to focus either goin Attack power or Spell power raid to maximize the raid dps, A bis mage might do insane damage with the right raid setup but if you put him in a 10man group with 1 Hunter, 1 DK, 1 Warrior 1 Paladin 1 Rogue and 1 Feral druid DPS, his DPS will be half of what it can be.

[angrylol]

For ICC 25
Usual split - 2 tanks, 5 heals, 9 mdps, 9 rdps [you can change it 3-4heals,11 mdps and 9 rangeds or whatever you can get or feel like as already meantioned]

Classes with particular duty in raid.
1-2 shadow priest (Orbs, soaking viles on LK)
2 Hunters (Tranq Shamblings and MD Raggings, Frost Traps Valkyrs)
2 Rogues(ToT Raggings)
1 Unholy DK (Ebon plague(13% Magic dmg) AoE spread)
3 paladins of any kind (Holy Wrath Valkyrs)

Now you have to get all/most the buffs/debuffs
Buffs:
5% Melee crit - Fury Warrior, Feral Druid
5% Spell crit - Boomkin > Elemental Shaman
3% Haste - Retri Paladin, Boomkin
Bonus Spellpower - Demo Warlock > Shaman totem[Note Demo buff scales with gear while Shaman totem is fixed value]
10% Attack power - Marksman Hunter, Blood DK, Enhancement Shaman
20% Melee Haste - Frost DK > Blood Tank[with deep frost]
3% Damage - Retri Paladin > Arcane Mage
5% Spell Haste totem - Shaman
3% Damage Reduction - Discipline Priest, Protection Paladin
6% Bonus Healing recieved - Protection Paladin, Resto Druid
Replenishment - Retri Pala
Improved Might - Retri Pala
Improved Wisdom or Restrorative Totems - Holy Paladin or Resto Shaman
Commanding Shout - Warrior

Debuff:
13% Magic Damage - Boomkin, Unholy DK > Warlock
30% Disease Damage - Unholy DK
3% Crit - Retri paladin > Assasin Rogue [Melee] <> [Spell] Boomkin > Elemental Shaman
5% Spell Crit - Warlock > Mage
4% Melee Damage - Combat rogue
3% Spell Hit - Shadow Priest, Boomkin
20% Reduced Armor - Warrior
5% Reduced Armor - Boomkin
20% Reduced Melee Haste - Protection Paladin, DK, Feral Druid, Protection Warrior
30% Bleeding Damage - Feral Druid
Attack power Reduction - Guardian Druid > Warrior
3% Reduced Hit chance - Boomkin

###So this is example:
Guardian (5% Melee Crit, Gift, 30% Bleeding DMG, -5% Armor)
Prot Pala (6% Healing, 3% DMG taken reduction)

MDPS
1. Frost DK (20% Melee Haste, Horn)
2. Unholy DK (13% Magic DMG)
3. Retri (Replenishment, Might, 3% dmg, 3% haste, 3% crit)
4. Combat (4% Physical DMG)
5. Fury (-20% Armor)
6. [optional]Fury (highest DPS)
7. [optional]Retri (another set of all the cool pala stuff)
8. [optional]Combat (another ToT)
9. [optional]Feral (Bres, Innervate)
RDPS
1. MM Hunter (10% Attack Power)
2. Boomkin (3% spell hit chance)
3. Demo Warlock (Spellpower)
4. TTW Mage
5. Shadow Priest
6. [optional] Boomkin (innervate, battle res)
7. [optional] Shadow Priest (another set of hymns)
8. [optional] MM Hunter (another MD)
9. [optional] TTW Mage (highest DPS)

HEAL
1. Holy Pala
2. Resto Shaman (5% Spell Haste Totem)
3. Disc Priest
4. [if you need more heals] Holy Pala
5. [if you need more heals] Resto Druid

In optional slots you can take pretty much anything you want, more or less