1. a ms tank should always have priority over an os tank, regardless of gs. if ms doesn't want it than and only then should the os get to roll on it.

  2. But don't you roll OS as MS because you don't need items for MS.

    And BiS MS doesn't give you automatic right to roll for another spec as MS.

  3. But don't you roll OS as MS because you don't need items for MS.

    And BiS MS doesn't give you automatic right to roll for another spec as MS.
    It doesn't give you the right, but if main spec changes are accepted there shouldn't be a priority between original MS players and the ones that changed. That's the whole idea behind this argument.

    You're 25/25, your raid has 4 mages but doesn't have any disc priest. Do I ask one of the mages to switch to their BiS disc and tell him to **** off when he asks to change his main spec roll because he's gonna steal precious gear from our other 3 mages? Do I tell him he can only take items that the mages don't need? How this makes any sense is beyond my understanding.

  4. That's great, all cool, everyone is happy. Hard to imagine such a scenario where everyone is saved and suddenly wild need for another healer appears, but whatever. I don't know, I guess that's up to casters to decide.

    All I'm saying is that you negotiate your MS change before raid is Saved, so people can choose to leave or remove you if you don't agree if you are denied to change MS.

    I always announce if any player wants to chage MS, if no one objects - it's official. If someone objects - sorry, I deny, player can leave if that's not good.

    I get loads of anger from people who just decide to roll on their OS stuff as main after pull. I say "sorry you didnt negotiate it before pull, you can roll for role you are filling and that is that". Super simple.
    Edited: January 13, 2020

  5. That's great, all cool, everyone is happy. Hard to imagine such a scenario where everyone is saved and suddenly wild need for another healer appears, but whatever. I don't know, I guess that's up to casters to decide.

    All I'm saying is that you negotiate your MS change before raid is Saved, so people can choose to leave or remove you if you don't agree if you are denied to change MS.

    I always announce if any player wants to chage MS, if no one objects - it's official. If someone objects - sorry, I deny, player can leave if that's not good.
    Quite a common scenario where you miss one specific class for a run, don't know what's so hard to imagine. That was just an easy to understand example I gave. Looks like it wasn't that easy afterall.

    And you keep missing the point of this discussion. It's not about changing main spec after pull, it's not about announcing the main spec changes. It's about people that feel entitled to gear over the ones that changed their main specs, or main spec changing not being allowed in general.

    You keep pushing your idea that agrees to what I said but you also keep arguing. You either read only one sentence in each post or there's a really big language barrier.
    Edited: January 13, 2020

  6. How can you be 25/25 and miss someone. But lets imagine scenario.

    Loot rules are set everyone is in agreement with their odds
    Boss pulled, people saved
    Wild disco appears and wants to change loot rules and give him priviledge to roll for his OS as main
    Sorry, loot rules can not be changed after pull according to Warmane rules, so Disc can roll only his MS

    Seems pretty logic.

    Then you can negotiate with raid to evaluate choice RO or share loot, so I guess it will work out fine in practice.

    And you keep missing the point of this discussion. It's not about changing main spec after pull, it's not about announcing the main spec changes. It's about people that feel entitled to gear over the ones that changed their main specs, or main spec changing not being allowed in general.

    You keep pushing your idea that agrees to what I said but you also keep arguing. You either read only one sentence in each post or there's a really big language barrier.
    We agree on everything, except giving choice to people who don't want to share loot for their role. If tank says he don't want to share loot with you than there choices - he can leave, you can leave, you can stay and agree to not roll os as ms. Beggars cant be choosers. And guess what, who will the raid leader remove - tank or some dps?

    If everyone agrees it's all great just as you said.

    So I guess we really are saying the same thing for a few pages, pretty fun.
    Edited: January 13, 2020

  7. Yesterday I did icc10 and had a perfect group. Nobody rolled for anything if it wasn't for him, they all waited for OS roll. So overall, there are still people who aren't jackass about this.

  8. Having a hard time figuring out what you wanted to say here, but I'm assuming you're talking about competition on gear. More competition on one set of gear means less competition on the other. That's the point of a main spec change, yes, you're gonna have more competition on tank/dps/heal whatever you change your main spec to but you'll have less competition on your original spec. Isn't it the same thing?
    No, it's not the same thing. Adding another person rolling tank as a main-spec increases the people competing for said items by 50%. And you are now gimping the people who are tanking for you.
    Have you no shame?

  9. No, it's not the same thing. Adding another person rolling tank as a main-spec increases the people competing for said items by 50%. And you are now gimping the people who are tanking for you.
    Have you no shame?
    It can go the other way around where the tank would want to roll DPS as main spec and not allowing it means he's getting punished for tanking.

  10. Adding another person rolling tank as a main-spec increases the people competing for said items by 50%. And you are now gimping the people who are tanking for you.
    On the other hand, adding another person rolling tank as a main-spec decreases the people competing for DPS items by 1. Which, to be honest, makes it even MORE fair, because DPS items have too much competition while tank items usually don't have enough.

    Though that's just one example - and with an assumption that everyone needs items, which is not always the case. Speaking of pugs, all of this depends on a situation, and you are both right in respective ones. It would really suck if MS changes were forbidden and you had a BiS tank available who just wants a dps gear (or vice versa). But also it would suck if MS changes were universally acceptable in ALL raids, so your competition would often grow (and depending on the spec, grow more often than decrease). That is exactly why it's left for raid leaders to decide - this way there are raids with various raid settings and everyone can find what they want.

    Though that was a bit off-topic - OP just wanted to complain. : )
    Edited: January 14, 2020

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