1. There are a few things I want to mention about gold and trades in general.

    First of all, the server doesn't sell any gold, but you can buy gold with coins from OTHER PLAYERS.
    If you are willing to give gold for coins or coins for gold, that's UP TO YOU.
    Of course, you need to have at least one donated account to do that, but it is merely 10 coins, which means approximately 20k gold on Icecrown at this moment.

    Every single item in the game that can be sold has it's price in gold.
    That price is decided by players, not by the server.
    It is a free market, everyone can sell or buy for whatever price they want.
    If you don't want to buy a pet for 5k gold, just don't, if you don't want to pay 10k gold for one single item, nobody will force you to.
    It is YOU that decide what is worth buying and what isn't.
    Everyone has to decide for themselves if they want to pay a specific amount of gold or coins for an item.

    Let me give you some examples:
    I would never pay 5k gold or more for one item, even if it is was almost bis, this includes any boe like profession pants or choker.
    I wouldn't pay 23 coins or about 50k gold for 1 BiS item, not even the rs25h trinkets, because I can get them by actually killing the bosses.
    I am willing to sell 25k gold for about 10 coins and then buy a mount that is unobtainable in the game for 30 coins, which means about 75k gold.
    I am willing to sell 40k gold for about 15 coins and then buy a pet from website because, guess what?, you CAN'T GET IT ANY OTHER WAY.
    I am willing to pay 100-200 gold for 1 flask because I have herbalism and alchemy myself and I know the effort and time that takes to make them.

    All of these examples and EVERY OTHER PRICE in the game or outside the game is decided by the economy itself.
    If 98 people out of 100 are willing to pay 5k gold or 23 coins for 1 item, the other 2 guys can't complain and get it cheaper or for free.
    If you are willing to work and put in the EFFORT and TIME to get the gold, the items, the achievements or whatever else you want, you WILL GET IT.

    The value of gold is influenced a LOT by the TOTAL AMOUNT of gold that exists in the game at any given time.
    That means if most players on the server have 10k gold or more in total, they are most probably willing to pay 5k gold for some item.
    If you are poor and barely have 1k gold on all your characters then you should not buy an item for 5k gold and focus on more important or efficient stuff.
    If ALL THE GOLD in the game gets halved, then on average, following the above example, everyone will have 5k gold or less, depending on what they did.
    That means that MOST of these people will not be willing to pay the same amount of gold for the same item.
    There will still be lots of items that will sell for the same amount of gold because EVERYONE IS WILLING to pay that amount for them.

    Gold gets into the game, it gets created out of nothing, just by drops and quest rewards.
    There are 2 possible situations, one with squish, one without.
    With squish: some of the gold is sinked out of the game, prices vary a bit, but over the years stay the same and don't fluctuate by a lot, usually up to 100%, most of the times less. New people can afford most things and can buy everything if they are willing to put in the effort.
    Without squish: more and more gold exists in the game to the point where having 100k gold is meaningless, prices go higher and higher, exponentially and proportionally to the time that passes. New people have no way of catching older players from behind and it is very hard or impossible for them to become part of the economy and can't buy anything they need/want.

    If it was up to me, I would do the squish more often and UNANNOUNCED, so people CAN'T PREPARE FOR IT. That would make people actually use their gold and put it in circulation, rather than keep it safe and away from the economy. But I bet everyone would get pissed if the server would do that, even if it would actually be the MOST "HEALTHY" for the economy.
    So you should be GRATEFUL that they tell you every year instead of just doing the best/right thing.

    You're quite right. The only thing wrong is the coin <----> gold theory. You see 23 coins as 50k gold, not as just some currency. As you said, with hard work you can obtain everything in-game, without donating. It is completely true, however if I make 30$/hour working in real life, I might consider donating and getting a 23 coin item, since it's worth less than 1 hour of my time. If I want to get an end-game heroic, really "sought after" item, like trinkets or weapons, it might even take years to succeed if I want to do it the old fashioned way. Let's say there's an item that's valued at 50k gold in-game. Farming that 50k can take anywhere between 10-15 hours. 10-15 hours of work is 300-450$ for me, so if I donate that 20$ here I go I have 50k gold with 40mins of work "irl".

    Don't get me wrong, I know most people here don't like to donate. It really takes the fun away and of course, some can't afford it. I myself haven't donated more than 50$ my whole 2 years playing here. I'm just saying that if you see coins as instant gold figures, you might want to consider time as money. As the saying goes, "time is money". It's only true if you have a job in real life, but if you do so, you might want to do some OT only to donate, it's like farming in your free time, it's just waaaay more efficient.

  2. *Laughs in 4K Primos, 25k flasks and 40k buffood*

  3. *Laughs in 4K Primos, 25k flasks and 40k buffood*
    Dude, thats like 120 full guild vaults, where do you keep all that?

  4. nvm, its barely 6 guild vaults :D

  5. You're quite right. The only thing wrong is the coin <----> gold theory. You see 23 coins as 50k gold, not as just some currency. As you said, with hard work you can obtain everything in-game, without donating. It is completely true, however if I make 30$/hour working in real life, I might consider donating and getting a 23 coin item, since it's worth less than 1 hour of my time. If I want to get an end-game heroic, really "sought after" item, like trinkets or weapons, it might even take years to succeed if I want to do it the old fashioned way. Let's say there's an item that's valued at 50k gold in-game. Farming that 50k can take anywhere between 10-15 hours. 10-15 hours of work is 300-450$ for me, so if I donate that 20$ here I go I have 50k gold with 40mins of work "irl".

    Don't get me wrong, I know most people here don't like to donate. It really takes the fun away and of course, some can't afford it. I myself haven't donated more than 50$ my whole 2 years playing here. I'm just saying that if you see coins as instant gold figures, you might want to consider time as money. As the saying goes, "time is money". It's only true if you have a job in real life, but if you do so, you might want to do some OT only to donate, it's like farming in your free time, it's just waaaay more efficient.
    I totally agree with you.
    Only those people complain about this who are loosers and have nothing else to do in life other than sit and spend 90hours a week playing this game.
    They can grind DKP/gold and actually grind through the SM/Valanyr quest line.
    And when some one who gets the same items with $ then they cry. And throw tantrums.

    I would like to share an incident with you guys.
    I used to be in an end game guild. Due to real life stuff I couldn't play every day of the week like most of them and was getting behind gear wise. I would never have enough DKP to buy anything. And since I was casual raider I wouldn't be picked for raids most of the times even because ranked members were invited on priority.
    So 3 years into the game I was just 6k gs on a single character that weren't even BiS items. It was just rags and tags that rest of the raid didn't want.

    And then, God bless warmane, Market Place was introduced and I thought to myself this seems like a good way to gear up; Farm gold and selling it for coins and then using coins to buy items.
    I was guided by a veteran wow player in the art of AH flipping. I would login 10-20 mins every couple of days and do AH flipping and logout.
    Took me 3 months to make my first character BiS.

    And when I joined in raids and some guild members would see a new BiS item on me, they would get jealous and bash me for not earning my gear. Ultimately it got to the point where I was kicked out of the guild. (Not for my lack of tactics knowledge but because I was not grinding my gear through the "proper" way.)

  6. You're quite right. The only thing wrong is the coin <----> gold theory. You see 23 coins as 50k gold, not as just some currency. As you said, with hard work you can obtain everything in-game, without donating. It is completely true, however if I make 30$/hour working in real life, I might consider donating and getting a 23 coin item, since it's worth less than 1 hour of my time. If I want to get an end-game heroic, really "sought after" item, like trinkets or weapons, it might even take years to succeed if I want to do it the old fashioned way. Let's say there's an item that's valued at 50k gold in-game. Farming that 50k can take anywhere between 10-15 hours. 10-15 hours of work is 300-450$ for me, so if I donate that 20$ here I go I have 50k gold with 40mins of work "irl".

    Don't get me wrong, I know most people here don't like to donate. It really takes the fun away and of course, some can't afford it. I myself haven't donated more than 50$ my whole 2 years playing here. I'm just saying that if you see coins as instant gold figures, you might want to consider time as money. As the saying goes, "time is money". It's only true if you have a job in real life, but if you do so, you might want to do some OT only to donate, it's like farming in your free time, it's just waaaay more efficient.
    Why do we even bring the donation question to this thread, is that what the squish is all about? Why don't you just cut the bull**** and tell everybody that you think it's best to donate, even in an off-topic thread like this? Or is it off-topic?

    Buying coins will take away all the fun that World of Warcraft originally brought. If you don't have time to play, well, don't play. It's not okay to force anyone to buy coins. All this squish does is devalue everything made by players. Rich will get richer, but hey, they would never donate again anyway, as they can buy everything! So Warmane does not care about them rich people. The only way to deal with rich players is to shut down Warmane Trade, and leave only the Coin Shop, which is less likely to happen now that it has such a huge impact on player base.

    Farming and earning gold through auction is, for most people, a lot of fun. Getting enough gold so you can buy coins via site is also fun in its own way, and it makes you feel that you earned it, because it requires so much dedication and, most importantly, TIME. It probably is time-wise smarter to donate and buy items for coins, but then again, it kills the fun and the feel that you earned it. And don't forget that you have to donate to use Warmane Trade in the first place.

    Further more, auction house will have a lot of pain to get itself back to where it was before. Everything was stable before the squish, now look at the prices and what's going on, disaster! And disaster will remain for long after the squish. Economy did not need any balancing whatsoever.
    Don't compare this to retail, as you would have to pay to even enter the game there.
    Adding an NPC to "draw" gold would actually make people donate less, that's not a viable option.
    Gold squish is not very attractive for new players either, as they are forced to donate or leave. So what is this all about?

    Warmane is number one private server, I don't want anyone to question that, and I think everyone should donate at least to dodge the queue. I mean, how much would you pay to play another serious game on Steam, and how much you actually waste here and there every day? It's a lot better to donate to a server/game that you'll spend so much time playing.
    However, I don't think the squish brought any good. You might get a few donations out of it, but will it last? Will you have more players in a long-term relationship? There are still other ways get donations, and I personally think that gold squish actually repels new players. There are plenty of other ways.

    Sorry for the long post, just my two cents.

  7. Why do we even bring the donation question to this thread, is that what the squish is all about? Why don't you just cut the bull**** and tell everybody that you think it's best to donate, even in an off-topic thread like this? Or is it off-topic?

    Buying coins will take away all the fun that World of Warcraft originally brought. If you don't have time to play, well, don't play. It's not okay to force anyone to buy coins. All this squish does is devalue everything made by players. Rich will get richer, but hey, they would never donate again anyway, as they can buy everything! So Warmane does not care about them rich people. The only way to deal with rich players is to shut down Warmane Trade, and leave only the Coin Shop, which is less likely to happen now that it has such a huge impact on player base.

    Farming and earning gold through auction is, for most people, a lot of fun. Getting enough gold so you can buy coins via site is also fun in its own way, and it makes you feel that you earned it, because it requires so much dedication and, most importantly, TIME. It probably is time-wise smarter to donate and buy items for coins, but then again, it kills the fun and the feel that you earned it. And don't forget that you have to donate to use Warmane Trade in the first place.

    Further more, auction house will have a lot of pain to get itself back to where it was before. Everything was stable before the squish, now look at the prices and what's going on, disaster! And disaster will remain for long after the squish. Economy did not need any balancing whatsoever.
    Don't compare this to retail, as you would have to pay to even enter the game there.
    Adding an NPC to "draw" gold would actually make people donate less, that's not a viable option.
    Gold squish is not very attractive for new players either, as they are forced to donate or leave. So what is this all about?

    Warmane is number one private server, I don't want anyone to question that, and I think everyone should donate at least to dodge the queue. I mean, how much would you pay to play another serious game on Steam, and how much you actually waste here and there every day? It's a lot better to donate to a server/game that you'll spend so much time playing.
    However, I don't think the squish brought any good. You might get a few donations out of it, but will it last? Will you have more players in a long-term relationship? There are still other ways get donations, and I personally think that gold squish actually repels new players. There are plenty of other ways.

    Sorry for the long post, just my two cents.

    First of all, it wasn't me who brought up donating, I just reacted to it wiht my opinion.

    I think the reason behind the squish is much deeper than "earning donations". They do that by adding donation discounts and events. If someone wanted to donate they will donate regardless of the circumstances. They have enough income from the multiboxers alone, but let's say there are no mboxers and they only cash in 100$ worth of donations each day ( that's 10 players donating the minimum amount or it can be only 1 player as well ), that's 3000$ a month. If you substract the maintinence costs and all they still have enough to pay off the staff. I don't think anyone's doing this full-time by the way.

    So, maybe they think deeper and long-term.
    There are players who rule some important markets in the game, all they do is accumulate gold. Once they have like 100k to start, there's nothing to stop them. Even if they make only 1g profit from each of their auctions, they still make a mad amount. Now you might say that the squish does nothing to them because they stack up mats in guild banks. That's true 100%, they ain't stupid. The point is, the squish is aimed at the gold in circulation, nothing more. It affects everyone. Illegal gold traders, casual want-to-be godfather gold farmers, etc... Now I can't but agree that the mats should be halved as well to eleminate hoarders, but that's not ethical, destroying someone's hard work. Don't get me wrong, I don't understand some aspects just like so many ppl here. I'm not here to roast or offend anyone, I'm just sharing my view on this. A real economist would come in handy here to explain the effects of this in detail.

    As I stated it some days ago, and again, I don't want to offend anyone, but what are you hoarders and gold stackers expecting? Why are you doing this at the first place? Are you this addicted? Even when you're through everything and have every achi and BiS gear, still you want to stack up unbelievable amounts of gold and mats? Why? There's no such thing as gold ----> real money transaction, so all you can do is buy coins maybe but I bet ppl who do these things are already BiS. Oh maybe you're enjoying this? How about some real life stock market or some business school that would actually get you forward if you have the skill to do so?
    I have an off-topic thread about WoW addiction if you're interested feel free to read my story and how I managed to quit.

    Thanx

  8. my char hanged please help name: (Golgehann) 90 level painful help in the name ....

  9. Now I can't but agree that the mats should be halved as well to eleminate hoarders, but that's not ethical, destroying someone's hard work. Don't get me wrong, I don't understand some aspects just like so many ppl here.
    It is exactly the same with gold. We don't get half the gold and also halved ratings, they stay the same, effectively destroying peoples hard work, because gold value is the same one month later compared to value before gold squish panic. 2 pre-squish golds are not the same as 1 after-squish gold.

    As I stated it some days ago, and again, I don't want to offend anyone, but what are you hoarders and gold stackers expecting? Why are you doing this at the first place? Are you this addicted? Even when you're through everything and have every achi and BiS gear, still you want to stack up unbelievable amounts of gold and mats? Why? There's no such thing as gold ----> real money transaction, so all you can do is buy coins maybe but I bet ppl who do these things are already BiS. Oh maybe you're enjoying this? How about some real life stock market or some business school that would actually get you forward if you have the skill to do so?
    I have an off-topic thread about WoW addiction if you're interested feel free to read my story and how I managed to quit.

    Thanx
    Why do people raid, why do people play arenas, why do people farm achievements, why do people PvP, why do people twink? Trading is just another aspect of the game, and I don't even do it for gold...

  10. Look up Auctionator and never have this problem again ;)

  11. Last post directed to Lunnamoon:

    bigger problem is AH, normal players are unable to buy mats bcs of million items (mostly same ppl) that cost to bid 1 copper and buyout 500% of real value. Now i need to scroll through 3-4000 or more items to check lowest price! PLEASE WARMANE do something about that!!!!
    (also, why the hell is there no edit option on this forum?)

  12. Only Staff members can open topics in this board. Because of that, some permissions are missing for normal users. Sorry :/

  13. Why do people raid, why do people play arenas, why do people farm achievements, why do people PvP, why do people twink? Trading is just another aspect of the game, and I don't even do it for gold...
    It is indeed, but in my opinion the in-game economy and trading is a "tool". A tool one should use to buy items, created / looted by other players, in exchange for currency, which is gold in WoW. BUT it should only be used for this, not for some "crazy" game of becoming a mad collector/hoarder/farmer and having so much gold you could buy the dala mammouth a 100 times. Of course, just like in real life you can play this smart and even with a low budget you can get sweet deals in the AH. I'm not trying to say that having some gold reserves is a bad thing. It is an amazing thing, everyone stacks some gold up eventually once they hit their goals. I'm just saying that having enormous reserves are kind of pointless to me. I really don't know how to put this, I'm not here to offend anyone and I 100% agree with the FUN aspect of trading / playing the AH. I did this too, so who am I to judge? I just had a strange moment where I was thinking to myself: "Jesus, what the hell am I doing? I have hundreds of thousands of gold + mats, what, I'm the king now?".

    Oh man I know the amazing feeling you get when that sweet gold is flowing in from your mailbox, it's almost like you're on wall street making huge deals and that breeze of success passes through your mind, you're kind of accomplished.

    Sorry I drift. The original topic here was the squish, not donating and not hoarding. Still, almost 8 pages long thread now and no one had a 100% convincing explanation. We had some nice topics to talk about by the way, that's great!

    I would love to talk about the aforementioned things in the off-topic region but no one reads that lol.

  14. how I can downoload batlle for azeroth

  15. If its a "healthy" move for warmane economy, so why our goverments dont do to our bank accounts from time to time? Imagine your euros/dollars halved one day..its healthy..

    One guy above offered to make vendor to drain gold from rich ppl by leting buy expensive mounts etc.. But thats what market places is for..sell your gold for coins, buy rare mounts..

    I got this idea for healthy economy, what if every gold has expiration date? lets say 3 months (any term to save enough for any expoensive stuff) if u earned 1k in january and 2k in february then in april u still have 2k, and if nothing earned during that time in may u have 0. So ppl will be forced move thhei gold to circulation all the time(what balances a market)
    Waiting for arguments where im wrong here :D

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