WotLK "Paladins dont use leather" Can anyone clarify loot rules for me?

[Turiviel]

I was a ret paladin in an ICC 25 raid. The raid was advertised as "LFM ICC 25 (DBW res)". A piece of leather melee gear dropped, we had no rogues or feral druids. I rolled a 100, the raid leader said "paladins dont wear leather" and gave the item to a DK. I thought this was an obvious case of ninja looting according to this thread: http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=325598

"What qualifies as raid ninja?
- Master Looter taking items that were not reserved or giving them to players that did not win, unless it's 2nd highest roll when winner had no use for the item (rogue rolling on caster trinket).

Examples of clear looting rules:
LFM Trial of the Crusader. All loot will be distributed via rolling"

To me, a paladin winning agility leather gear isn't a "winner had no use for the item (rogue rolling on caster trinket)." because paladins have multiple pieces of leather as best in slot. Also to me, "LFM ICC 25 (DBW res)" are clear loot rules, saying that I could roll on any upgrade besides the Deathbringer's Will which was reserved. But after reporting this to a GM with multiple screenshots I was told the raid leader did nothing wrong because they get to decide loot priority.

Does this mean if I make a raid on my warlock, I can wait until the end of the raid to announce to all the mages and shadow priests that "mages and shadow priests dont wear +haste gear"? Or would that be considered ninjaing?

Or if I make a raid on my ret paladin and do the opposite of what happened to me, and announce at the end of the raid "warriors and DKs dont wear leather" I automatically win any leather that dropped if we have no rogues and ferals?

I just want to know how far the rules for raid leaders deciding on loot goes when they don't announce anything. Because I don't think a mage is ever going to ask "can I roll on dps caster gear" just like I, as a ret paladin, didn't think to ask if I could roll on leather.

[comlogo]

Make a report and a GM will determine if it's a ninja or not.

[OhieMitzen]

I was a ret paladin in an ICC 25 raid. The raid was advertised as "LFM ICC 25 (DBW res)". A piece of leather melee gear dropped, we had no rogues or feral druids. I rolled a 100, the raid leader said "paladins dont wear leather" and gave the item to a DK. I thought this was an obvious case of ninja looting according to this thread: http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=325598

Paladins can (and should) wear some leather items. If they don't allow paladins to roll leather, they shouldn't allow DK's to roll leather.
WotLK isn't an expansion where you benefit from wearing specific armor matching your class. AKA paladins, warriors, DK's only using plate.

The problem is less informative players.
Stupid player doesn't get punished. I had RL/ML hunter rolling on "hunter, shaman" PvP boots. The boots were stamina, int, sp, resilience.
No punishment, and no, it wasn't automated response "go read how to report".

Next time ask from RL/ML if you can roll leather items as a paladin. If they say "no", don't waste your time any longer, leave the raid.

[dolcokidol]

Just report him. Paladins can use leather and if there's really nobody else it's better for paladins than DKs. On top of being a moron reserving items, he's screwing people over for other items.

[Turiviel]

Make a report and a GM will determine if it's a ninja or not.

I did report it and the GM said it wasn't a ninja. That's why I want some clarification on the rules. At the moment it seems like any raid leader can ninja an item they want just by banning classes from rolling. Because I didn't have a screenshot of the raid leader saying paladins can roll on leather the GM said it wasn't a ninja. That means a warlock could make a raid, invite a bunch of mages and shadow priests and then not tell them that they can't roll on any gear with +haste. Since they're all going to assume they can roll on upgrades, he just waits until the end and then tells them and they have no evidence of him ever saying they can roll on +haste gear.

[narsho]

I did report it and the GM said it wasn't a ninja. That's why I want some clarification on the rules. At the moment it seems like any raid leader can ninja an item they want just by banning classes from rolling. Because I didn't have a screenshot of the raid leader saying paladins can roll on leather the GM said it wasn't a ninja. That means a warlock could make a raid, invite a bunch of mages and shadow priests and then not tell them that they can't roll on any gear with +haste. Since they're all going to assume they can roll on upgrades, he just waits until the end and then tells them and they have no evidence of him ever saying they can roll on +haste gear.

You conveniently left out the item name you wanted get, while paladins do use leather items, it doesnt mean they can roll on all of them. Tell us what item you wanted.

[Turiviel]

You conveniently left out the item name you wanted get, while paladins do use leather items, it doesnt mean they can roll on all of them. Tell us what item you wanted.

I didn't conveniently leave the name out, I left it out because it's not pertinent to my question. We could change the situation to I was a hunter in TOGC 25, a piece of leather dropped and an enhance shaman was allowed to roll on it and I wasn't with the raid leader saying "hunters dont wear leather". I won the roll but the item was given to the shaman. Now show me where this is ok, or if it's an item by item case can you link me to a database of items which shows which classes are allowed to roll on them? Because I can't find anything on the rules: http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=325598

[narsho]

I didn't conveniently leave the name out, I left it out because it's not pertinent to my question. We could change the situation to I was a hunter in TOGC 25, a piece of leather dropped and an enhance shaman was allowed to roll on it and I wasn't with the raid leader saying "hunters dont wear leather". I won the roll but the item was given to the shaman. Now show me where this is ok, or if it's an item by item case can you link me to a database of items which shows which classes are allowed to roll on them? Because I can't find anything on the rules: http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=325598

Ability to wear everything doesnt give you rights to roll on everything. I assume gm's have played wow or are playng it, they have good knowledge about classes ,bis items and what certain classes should wear. Well since you dont tell us what the item was then "IT WASNT FOR PALADIN" and gm used this rule
"[unless it's 2nd highest roll when WINNER HAD NO USE FOR THE ITEM]". And on your case it would have been problably minor upgrade but dk problably would benefit way more on that item and thats why gm said raidleader can decide loot priority.

[Overloard99]

Ability to wear everything doesnt give you rights to roll on everything. I assume gm's have played wow or are playng it, they have good knowledge about classes ,bis items and what certain classes should wear. Well since you dont tell us what the item was then "IT WASNT FOR PALADIN" and gm used this rule
"[unless it's 2nd highest roll when WINNER HAD NO USE FOR THE ITEM]". And on your case it would have been problably minor upgrade but dk problably would benefit way more on that item and thats why gm said raidleader can decide loot priority.

Dude, do you realise that DK has no benefits of leather item at all? Agility gives nothing and i'm pretty sure paladin would need that way more than a dk. In either case > he should have done guild run not pugs where everyone can do whatever they want.

[angrylol]

You aint getting wrist from DBS as retri, if you don't know why - do some searching.

There is only 1 leather item from ICC 25 that retri can use and that is belt from PP. And not because it has super stats designed for retri.

[Thorbjorn]

Dude, do you realise that DK has no benefits of leather item at all? Agility gives nothing and i'm pretty sure paladin would need that way more than a dk. In either case > he should have done guild run not pugs where everyone can do whatever they want.

DKs do benefit from Leather gear. Agility gives 1 AP, combined with Equip bonus of AP it sometimes accumulates to more than you'd get from Str, needless to say it gives crit aswell. If it gives Arp on top of that the bracers are very desirable. You need to calculate whether you'll get more AP with Str bracers when buffed fully but if they're an upgrade they're good nonetheless.

[jacque]

DKs do benefit from Leather gear. Agility gives 1 AP, combined with Equip bonus of AP it sometimes accumulates to more than you'd get from Str, needless to say it gives crit aswell. If it gives Arp on top of that the bracers are very desirable. You need to calculate whether you'll get more AP with Str bracers when buffed fully but if they're an upgrade they're good nonetheless.

ehhh... i think you are wrong... war, pala, dk, and druid gain 2 attack power per 1 strength and agility only give them crit, armor and evasion. Usually under same ilvl, strength plate will give more attack power than agi leather or mail for the aforementioned classes. The main reason plate wearer use them is to push up their crit.

[Thorbjorn]

ehhh... i think you are wrong... war, pala, dk, and druid gain 2 attack power per 1 strength and agility only give them crit, armor and evasion. Usually under same ilvl, strength plate will give more attack power than agi leather or mail for the aforementioned classes. The main reason plate wearer use them is to push up their crit.

**** that's right, where the hell did I read it gives 1agi=1ap, 1str=2ap to dks?

But my point still stands, the combined bonus of crit from agi, arp, equip crit and equip ap can sometimes be more worth than the stats you'd get from strength bracers. That ofc heavily depends on which bracers you have and what stats you lack.

[Repost]

**** that's right, where the hell did I read it gives 1agi=1ap, 1str=2ap to dks?

But my point still stands, the combined bonus of crit from agi, arp, equip crit and equip ap can sometimes be more worth than the stats you'd get from strength bracers. That ofc heavily depends on which bracers you have and what stats you lack.

I think that's for ferals

[Thorbjorn]

I think that's for ferals

Yeah, I know that one. I just remember reading somewhere 1 Agi = 1 AP to all platers. Now I feel stupid for following false info without double checking