New 15 Minute Dungeon Timer?

[dolcokidol]

You're looking for some insanely convoluted ways to ask for a kick yet an answer to every single ****ing one of those is "you ask for a kick, you get reported, you get banned." I don't see what's so complicated about that rule.
Dungeon bugged? It might be fixed or you did it wrong last time. If it's bugged they'll learn that it's bugged for the next time.
Aliens abducted your parents and you wan't to go after them but you don't want the 30m deserter? Well, ****, I think you've got bigger issues than a 30m deserter.
Stop trying to find "loopholes" cause this isn't a courthouse, punishment isn't death and nobody will bother reading your 30 page essay on why you had to ask for a kick to remove your 5 day ban.

[Higashikata]

Yes, that's possible. Although, again, for I-don't-even-know-what-number-th time, you aren't forced to anything. You can drop the party at any moment of your choosing, and deal with the Debuff. You just don't want to deal with that, no matter what, which isn't going to work. If "special cases" were included, it would mean people would abuse those to do what you want - avoid the Debuff - and GMs would have to waste time scrutinizing reports to find out if it was in fact a "special case" or someone trying to abuse it. It's just not worth the hugely increased hassle, because sometimes something might in fact get bugged.

But as you pointed out there already some special case like "everyone agrees to kick eachother" ( you said it) so It means you're just evaluating case by case and I'm sure that there are other cases similar.

You're missing that apples aren't oranges, that different things are different.

Well maybe I am not understanding because you're not enough clear. Maybe you're generalizing too much.

"The difference with retail is not only the organization, but most of the stuff is literally working well, here's not."
Your words. "Most work well" on retail, here "most don't work well." That's an argument about amount. You should consider editing your post where you talk about OhieMitzen use and understanding of English if you can't understand why I addressed an argument talking about amount as if it talked about amount. Character selling has nothing to do with the complain you're making about something that was in fact part of retail, even if from what I gather it gave a different debuff with the same effect, not Deserter itself.

Ok, since "most" seems a bit amiss, you can go back and read all post that I wrote with "generally" instead of "most". But my point was another, you were underlining about bugs, I was underlining about services. Well, there's a bit of difference, since OhieMitzen was completly wrong, as I pointed out he was using the term "leaves" instead of the term "teleport out" that is more appropriate. And Yes I can admit my mistakes as you can see. You wrote "Character selling has nothing to do with the complain you're making about something that was in fact part of retail", but you're extremly wrong here, I beg you to read my first post, I'm not complaining about the update, I'm complaining about the fact you're doing it now, and I wanted to be it in the future, maybe when dungeons and bugs related to its, that I pointed out in another post above, are fixed. I'm sorry but you can't really compare 2 different things that works differently, retail like will also be always different from retail as blizzard will always be differnt from warmane and it's not only a matter of bugs (bugs imo are the last thing in matter of differences), but if you think bugs are the only thing that matter you're getting it wrong.

I don't know what you mean with "getting punished for not completing the wrong dungeon." If you queue RDF, you're assumed to be up for doing whatever comes up, there being no "wrong ones." If you want to queue for random, but choose, it's on you to deal with cooldowns that might be the price of that choice.

While bugs should be fixed, one thing doesn't erases the other. When you consider these changes were part of retail, they also were the fixing of bugs. I didn't play retail at the time, so I don't have first-hand knowledge, but people who did have confirmed the cooldowns existed, even if they don't recall specific details on how they worked.

It was said that the effect of these changes is being watched closely, so that might mean that constant bugs in certain instances (as in, that dungeon is always bugged at some point, not a bug that happens only occasionally, which makes it harder to narrow down a cause) could get priority in fixes.

aren't there wrong ones? you're just trying to avoid the real problem, because as far as I know "culling of stratholme" is bugged, and you can't get reward, toc is constantly resetting during the encounter (that means that is really hard to get a reward), and Tyrannus in pos (that I don't know if It has been fixed) but makes insane dmg so it is extremly hard to kill and to tank. This is just a small list of bugs that make these dungeons the "wrong ones". Well if you can't even admit that these dungeons are unplayable, I don't think it's my fault. It seems to me that you can't accept critics about the update, because as many people said before me they don't like the update, and I think I am just part of those few players that said that this update "may be useful in the future", and the reason I said this is because generally kick should only be used to kick "bm players" and not to avoid bugged dungeons. and ofc I know that this update has been done to avoid player to constantly kick each other (avoiding penalties) and help other people to gear up, but as I pointed out retail is retail and warmane is warmane, and stuff works differently.

[Greedman45]

aren't there wrong ones? you're just trying to avoid the real problem, because as far as I know "culling of stratholme" is bugged, and you can't get reward, toc is constantly resetting during the encounter (that means that is really hard to get a reward), and Tyrannus in pos (that I don't know if It has been fixed) but makes insane dmg so it is extremly hard to kill and to tank. This is just a small list of bugs that make these dungeons the "wrong ones". Well if you can't even admit that these dungeons are unplayable, I don't think it's my fault. It seems to me that you can't accept critics about the update, because as many people said before me they don't like the update, and I think I am just part of those few players that said that this update "may be useful in the future", and the reason I said this is because generally kick should only be used to kick "bm players" and not to avoid bugged dungeons. and ofc I know that this update has been done to avoid player to constantly kick each other (avoiding penalties) and help other people to gear up, but as I pointed out retail is retail and warmane is warmane, and stuff works differently.

Ok, obviously you have no idea and havent tried anything... Tyranus is fine, his dmg is fine and i tanked him with 3.2 pala tank more than 10 times on heroic.(If your 6k dps continues doing dmg on mark that is another matter...)
Culling has NO PROBLEM AT ALL except malganis continuing to do dmg after defeated but stops once loot appears. And on toc you just have to pull those ads away from the boss so it doesn't bug out...

Now, i myself have been in the position to want to kick everyone in the party to not play oculus because i was bored, but i was fine with the 10 min penaly of cooldown since this is the price to pay for abusing this thing. What you can do is go get locked on first boss then disband party by kicking each other and wait only 5 minutes. I DONT ENCOURAGE THIS THOUGH since there isnt that much difference between completion times in most of the dungeons. Just go finish everything completely and stop finding problems where they dont exist...

[OhieMitzen]

Where it all began:

Okay. So. Here is a scenario:
We get HoR HC as as group, and healer or tank refuses to do it. We can't kick them for 5m. Nor they agreeing to do anything for 5m. Can that be reported as disturbing gameplay?

If they refuse to play, or leave (demand kick) you can report them. The ban will only be few days. Perhaps they'll learn from the experience.

So clearly, we are not talking about people teleporting out, we are talking about people, who are not leaving by themselves from the group.

It's not that I misunderstood, it's that you don't want to understand or don't know the meaning of english words. Leaving is different from teleporting out. Everyone here is talking about leaving people that means people that definitly leaves a dungeon or people that got kicked and get innocently punished, we are not talking about people that teleports out.

Let's see it again where I clarified it a bit:

If they refuse to play (excuses for long dungeon, AFK, not being helpful in RDF), or refuse to leave (demanding kick as they are little snowflakes who shouldn't be given deserter) you can report them. The ban will only be few days. Perhaps they'll learn from the experience.

We all know it, we are talking about actually leaving the party, not teleporting out. Teleporting out has very little to do with refusing to play and demanding kick. It has no difference if you refuse to play and demand a kick inside or outside the dungeon, emergency or not.
And here I was thinking we all were talking about those who can't leave the party themselves? Oh, wait, we are? I only talked about people who refuse to leave the party by themselves. If I wanted to bring up those who teleport out, I would've said so.

Well, there's a bit of difference, since OhieMitzen was completly wrong, as I pointed out he was using the term "leaves" instead of the term "teleport out" that is more appropriate.

And I say it again, isn't this whole ordeal about people refusing to LEAVE.
So tell me again, where was I completely wrong, or could somebody else clarify it for simple OhieMitzen who doesn't understand English.

maybe you should leave this thread

btw (by the way), I did PoS (Pit of Saron) yesterday (the day before this day), last boss (Scourgelord Tyrannus). It was not bugged (it was not hard, we killed it without a sweat).

[Higashikata]

Ok, obviously you have no idea and havent tried anything... Tyranus is fine, his dmg is fine and i tanked him with 3.2 pala tank more than 10 times on heroic.(If your 6k dps continues doing dmg on mark that is another matter...)
Culling has NO PROBLEM AT ALL except malganis continuing to do dmg after defeated but stops once loot appears. And on toc you just have to pull those ads away from the boss so it doesn't bug out...

Now, i myself have been in the position to want to kick everyone in the party to not play oculus because i was bored, but i was fine with the 10 min penaly of cooldown since this is the price to pay for abusing this thing. What you can do is go get locked on first boss then disband party by kicking each other and wait only 5 minutes. I DONT ENCOURAGE THIS THOUGH since there isnt that much difference between completion times in most of the dungeons. Just go finish everything completely and stop finding problems where they dont exist...

Actually I played Culling yesterday or the day before, we reached mal'ganis, defeated it and we coudn't get the loot. I don't know about you but that's a huge bug. And toc you're wrong, factions are sometimes resetting, the 3 bosses after are resetting, the 3 groups of mobs after it are resetting (and as far as I can say) even if you interrupts mind control, and random boss after the 3 groups are resetting. So except those the Dk isworking well. Idk about pos because I didn't try to tank it in a while, but mine was an example of how dungeons are not working. problems don't exist? srsly? open the bugtracker. I would report you for doing that in "Oculus", you're avoiding to play and make other waste their time only because in your opinion it is too long, that to me sounds really selfish.

If they refuse to play, or leave (demand kick) you can report them. The ban will only be few days. Perhaps they'll learn from the experience.

This sentence is completly messed up. I'll analyze it for you: "if they refuse to play" means many things, means, they are not moving, or maybe that they are moving inside the dungeon but they are not respecting their role or maybe they teleported out and they don't want teleport in, or any other case where they don't respect their role, so there is no need to say after "or leave" because the "or" may be sound like the latin Vel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_disjunction) or the latin Aut Aut (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_or).
1)If they refuse to play "vel" leave (demand kick) you can report them. At this point the verb leave means "definitely" leaves, because otherwise you're repeating 2 times the fact that they are refusing to play, and since I think there is no need to express 2 times in a row the same concept, this is a tautology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)). So I thought you meant more an Aut Aut (or if your prefer Xor).
2)If they refuse to play "Aut" leave (demand kick) you can report them. So since "refuse to play" and "leave" are exclusive, now the verb "leave" can only mean "they definitely leave" because they can't choose anymore if play or not.
In both case I proved that the verb leave sounds more like "definitely leave", and if we assume that you were saying " if they definitely leave, you can report them" this mean that everyone is always forced to play because otherwise they'll get punished if they leave. I hope I've been enough exhaustive.
The other point I wanted to underline is that you asnwered only the part about "report them" but the discussion was about the fact you can't kick anyone in 5 min or about the new "kicking" mechanics, because the entire thread should be about the RDC, and you went out of discussion.

maybe you should leave this thread

Well, suggest to leave the thread only because someone thinks different from you is a bit disgusting. With that sentence you're encouraging the unilateral "thinking" and since the idea of the forum is a place where everyone can explain or write their thoughts and a place to confront different ideas (respecting the rules), and I find it offensive. But you know wut? don't you want a different opinion or someone that think different? Well I'm not the one that is forcing someone to agree with me nor I forcing someone to reply to me. You don't want me to be here, well I'm leaving so you can discuss only with someone that only agrees with you and never disagree, so you can be right all the times. I hope you're happy with my leaving, bye.

[Indecizion]

But it's not about you. We don't cater this system to multiboxers. Other regular players being jackasses to each other is of greater concern.

It's not just about multi-boxers it's about everyone, groups collapse all the time, I just got HoR and everyone left and now i'm stuck waiting 15 minutes because you implemented a system for god knows what reason because I guarantee whatever issue you're trying to solve it's not going to work. If I have to wait 15 mins to get a group then get stuck waiting 15 mins because the group collapsed i then have to wait 45 mins to get 1 RHC at least 15 of which could be avoided, also consider that people will routinely kick low geared dps from groups to make the run faster this will also penalize them as well so it seems the 2 groups most penalized are people who want to run but who get stuck with people who don't and people who are low enough to prompt kicks.

[Jhenna0]

(...) Culling has NO PROBLEM AT ALL (...)
Now, i myself have been in the position to want to kick everyone in the party to not play oculus because i was bored, but i was fine with the 10 min penaly of cooldown since this is the price to pay for abusing this thing. What you can do is go get locked on first boss then disband party by kicking each other (...)

Can you tell my why you guys hate oculos so much? I dont understand its a 15 minute dungeon, faster than some (like CoS), with more fighting time than some (like violet hold), is the only problem the means of transportation? Because I find them to be fast aswell its a flying mount after all.

[IcarNS]

Can you tell my why you guys hate oculos so much? I dont understand its a 15 minute dungeon, faster than some (like CoS), with more fighting time than some (like violet hold), is the only problem the means of transportation? Because I find them to be fast aswell its a flying mount after all.

And you can get a mount from the bag at the end of the dungeon.