Player base getting smaller?

[Obnoxious]

Maybe, but if that were the case prices would start to go up instantly after stabilizing after squish. But they actually drop. I find it hard to believe there is some magic involved that makes everyone spend their gold after 9 months farming it, like a clockwork. More believeble explanation would be that people start to hoard things for the next squish, it is announced or not - at this point it is irrelevant.

The magic of "everyone has less gold, if you want to sell anything you have to drop your prices"? Abracadabra, I guess.

What actually controls market is relatively new players and the amount of gold they can farm in certain amount of time, lets say 1 month. My control is limited, all I can do is push to the maximum. Excluding some odd anecdotes I cant sell my gems for more than someone is willing to pay for them(he spends time to farm it himself or buy from me). And deposit costs exists for exactly this reason.

Deposit costs? Really? That's your "fact" argument for it being a controlled healthy economy needing no interference? If that cost was more than laughable the problem wouldn't have happened in the first place. Deposits don't counter the greed, nor the infinite flow of gold and goods to sell with no or negligible cost to get and resell.

[angrylol]

The magic of "everyone has less gold, if you want to sell anything you have to drop your prices"? Abracadabra, I guess.

As time passes everyone gets more gold, so 3 months after squish prices should have risen by a bit. But they are not. Abracadabra.

Deposit costs? Really? That's your "fact" argument for it being a controlled healthy economy needing no interference? If that cost was more than laughable the problem wouldn't have happened in the first place. Deposits don't counter the greed, nor the infinite flow of gold and goods to sell with no or negligible cost to get and resell.

Yes, if I mark it high, no one buys and I go into minus. And if I find the sweet spot where people still buy and I profit - what exactly is unhealthy about that?

And another point:
I accumulate gold all year, lets say I get 3milj in my bank. I will probably never touch that gold - it is effectively drained out. Then squish is coming and I dump all that gold into market, because I rather have stuff that wont lose value. Everyone does that, so economy heats up, prices raise and squish gives birth to itself.

[Fiutolog]

I'm new, but already considering leaving because of the P2W structure.

I donated to skip queue which doesn't bother me that much, i mean they have to make money to keep the server up. Later i then saw you could buy endgame & pvp gear, which totally ruins the experience for me :(

Because of this "structure" this server managed to exsist so long, while others fail and dying.

[Obnoxious]

As time passes everyone gets more gold, so 3 months after squish prices should have risen by a bit. But they are not. Abracadabra.

We've had servers for years, on different rates and expansions. We know it will increase, as it does. All you have is using the gold cut as scapegoat, as if prices would stay feasible on their own, when the very reason a cut happened was that they don't. We don't plan for the next three months only, prices not becoming ridiculous in three months isn't a worthwhile metric.

Yes, if I mark it high, no one buys and I go into minus. And if I find the sweet spot where people still buy and I profit - what exactly is unhealthy about that?

That isn't, but that's not what happens in the long term. As more gold is created out of nothing from quests rewards and general farming, sellers unerringly get into the mindset of "now people have enough gold to pay for 10 times the price" and do that. There's no mentality of "this is a fair price for the effort," just "they should be able to pay this much," which is then bandwagoned by others.

And another point:
I accumulate gold all year, lets say I get 3milj in my bank. I will probably never touch that gold - it is effectively drained out. Then squish is coming and I dump all that gold into market, because I rather have stuff that wont lose value. Everyone does that, so economy heats up, prices raise and squish gives birth to itself.

Using extreme examples that either are rare or might not even exist adds nothing to the subject. Again, you're trying to disguise the inflation as caused by the gold cut, when it existed before the first one happened.

[angrylol]

We've had servers for years, on different rates and expansions. We know it will increase, as it does. All you have is using the gold cut as scapegoat, as if prices would stay feasible on their own, when the very reason a cut happened was that they don't. We don't plan for the next three months only, prices not becoming ridiculous in three months isn't a worthwhile metric.

Sure, I understand that. I'm just wandering what would be the infaltion at this moment during these 2 years since we have x3 gold rate. I strongly doubt it would be double prices on everything. And Three months is not a big metric, sure, but maybe 1 year is:
- lets say after squish we have 100% prices,
3 months later we have 95% prices, another
3 months later 90% prices
3 months later 88% prices
[some magic happens]
3 months later 200% prices

That isn't, but that's not what happens in the long term. As more gold is created out of nothing from quests rewards and general farming, sellers unerringly get into the mindset of "now people have enough gold to pay for 10 times the price" and do that. There's no mentality of "this is a fair price for the effort," just "they should be able to pay this much," which is then bandwagoned by others.

Yes I agree. But the band wagon wouldn't move if no one would buy things. I can post 100 pages of something x10 price and in the end no one would buy a single item. Unless, of coarse, that x10 price is actually what its worth.

Using extreme examples that either are rare or might not even exist adds nothing to the subject. Again, you're trying to disguise the inflation as caused by the gold cut, when it existed before the first one happened.

There is nothing extreme about that. 5000 players with 10'000 gold in banks - none of them want to lose 5k, even if they dont plan to do anything with it. So 50'000'000 gold that was drained out goes back into market. And I personally think these are very very small number examples.

It would be great to know what causes that sadden inflation in last 3 months before squish if not squish itself. I would really appreciate to know. But so far if everything is wet outside in the morning - it rained.

Can't deny that squishes contribute to player loss, especially in winter holidays, when pre-squish panic inflation is high, no new players can buy anything and anything they get will be smashed in half after 1month, yea great news for them.

[Obnoxious]

Sure, I understand that. I'm just wandering what would be the infaltion at this moment during these 2 years since we have x3 gold rate. I strongly doubt it would be double prices on everything. And Three months is not a big metric, sure, but maybe 1 year is:
- lets say after squish we have 100% prices,
3 months later we have 95% prices, another
3 months later 90% prices
3 months later 88% prices
[some magic happens]
3 months later 200% prices

You can wonder and strongly doubt, of course. But neither proves or disproves anything. Meanwhile we have the reality that prices were absurdly bloated before the first cut happened.

Yes I agree. But the band wagon wouldn't move if no one would buy things. I can post 100 pages of something x10 price and in the end no one would buy a single item. Unless, of coarse, that x10 price is actually what its worth.

"If." Sure, "if." But that's not reality. When all the items in the AH have bloated prices and a large enough slice of the population has gathered enough gold, people will end up buying at those exorbitant prices because there's no other option, anyone trying to sell for a reasonable price ends up being bought by the same people who then resell at 10x. The cut has the effect it has because there's the period of time when everyone has less gold overall, and bloaters have the choice of either not selling at all and waiting, or selling for more reasonable prices meanwhile.

There is nothing extreme about that. 5000 players with 10'000 gold in banks - none of them want to lose 5k, even if they dont plan to do anything with it. So 50'000'000 gold that was drained out goes back into market. And I personally think these are very very small number examples.

You're again making up data. How many of those instead use the gold to buy mounts or riding or to create guilds and buy bank slots? How many use it as a push to start and deck out alts with a base starting? And even for those who buy stuff from the market, how many of those do it to burst through leveling professions and/or to craft their own equipment? There are plenty of things that people rush to do that effectively drain the gold away. Even if it somehow didn't happen, the fact prices are lowered for a period remains.

It would be great to know what causes that sadden inflation in last 3 months before squish if not squish itself. I would really appreciate to know. But so far if everything is wet outside in the morning - it rained.

I'm not denying that there is a period before the gold cut when prices increase. But you seem to repeatedly look the other way about the facts that price increases are something that would happen if there was no gold cut, and that after the cut prices are all pushed down and held there for a period of time.

Can't deny that squishes contribute to player loss, especially in winter holidays, when pre-squish panic inflation is high, no new players can buy anything and anything they get will be smashed in half after 1month, yea great news for them.

I won't waste time denying hollow conjecturing based on your personal view of the cut. There's no data to deny, just your scapegoating again. A supposed "player loss" when, again, peak times still happen, queues still happen, all the same as before. Is it possible that someone would instantly leave because of a gold cut, instead of grinding a bit harder to make use of their gold beforehand? Sure. Enough to affect the general population numbers? Reality speaks for itself.

For someone who tells others about "actual facts," you are pretty devoid of anything aside making up correlations you can't remotely prove, and this is pretty much going in circles now, so I'm done. The facts are that prices don't stay stable at an acceptable level because some people will artificially push them up sooner or later, and the gold cut does fight that, even if for a while. Whether it's enough or not is a different discussion.

[angrylol]

I'm just telling things I notice, and it's not like you have given any data. Back in time on x7 rates prices were stable, tough inflated as hell. You are right, on x3 rates gold accumulates, but it has minimal impact on market. You are telling that one day gem would cost 5000g, but players can farm that in a week.. how does that work, no one would ever buy that gem, and everyone who has gold already have enough gems, emblems and honor.

I don't know whats up, if its "official Warmane stance" no matter what, but I'm talking about valid points. Not like you have given any "actual facts", just some corralations that even don't make sense(hence I said magic).

But sure, squish guut, healthy
I'll mark up my stuff x10, just for you, after all, squish is was made to mend people like me, but I forgot to notice while making more gold than ever thanks to squish and inflation from it you deny exists.

[Skoobydoo]

I'm just telling things I notice, and it's not like you have given any data. Back in time on x7 rates prices were stable, tough inflated as hell. You are right, on x3 rates gold accumulates, but it has minimal impact on market. You are telling that one day gem would cost 5000g, but players can farm that in a week.. how does that work, no one would ever buy that gem, and everyone who has gold already have enough gems, emblems and honor.

I don't know whats up, if its "official Warmane stance" no matter what, but I'm talking about valid points. Not like you have given any "actual facts", just some corralations that even don't make sense(hence I said magic).

But sure, squish guut, healthy
I'll mark up my stuff x10, just for you, after all, squish is was made to mend people like me, but I forgot to notice while making more gold than ever thanks to squish and inflation from it you deny exists.

They dont have to provite you with any data, because honestly its non of your business and you are not part of Warmane team. Obnoxious is just informing you about the results they got from their statistic and telling you how gold squish effect the server. You may choose not to believe him if that is what you want and think that warmane is trying to **** their server up on purpos, but you dont have any actual data to contest his claim other then personal stories, or even worst made up stories. Also you should go read about the Personal experience vs statististics, maybe you will learn why personal stories are never used to draw conclusions.

[angrylol]

That's right, and I don't have to provide any data I have collected either.

He said inflation at the end of the year is not caused by squish.. of coarse I choose to not believe. At this point he is trolling or its order from coorporate to take such stance.

And both my personal experience and statistics i collected say that there is no inflation for 9 months and then it starts to rapidly grow. It does so either because of squish or "general" inflation - everyone can believe what they want. However what kind of logic would be under there that people farm things 9 months and then suddenly... what, stars align and everyone wants to spend their gold? Or maybe its super simple and pleople don't want to lose half of their gold because squish is just 3 months away? And now I'm curious what kind of proof would it take from me?

However what extent of inflation would it be if there were no squishes? I asked that and gave logical examples, because "200k linen cloth stack" to me seems ridiculous even if server is up 50 years. So how about if you write some stuff, write something of value Skoobydoo, what would happen? I'm not asking any proofs of stats, just your idea about it.

[Skoobydoo]

So how about if you write some stuff, write something of value Skoobydoo, what would happen? I'm not asking any proofs of stats, just your idea about it.

There is nothing of value to be added here. I already said early arguing with you is waste of time because nor you, nor me or any of the normal users in the forum have accese to actual statistic from Warmane. All we have is personal stories and what we think or remember have happened. Everything you have said is based on made up stories by you, but it seems you take them as facts for some reason.

[angrylol]

Allright, some points were indeed "made up" as Obnoxious pointed out. Made up as in if -then as logic dictates, i mean as my logic dictates. I guess that's why I put it out in public, to gain more perspectives. So far just a surface "everyone much gold inflation squish make healthy" thoughts. So I asked you too, you dont have to change my mind or anything.

And you seem to think that collecting data is something exclusive, weird.
So far in my made up numbers and that one time one guy said on Trade chat - everything points to last and this squish doing more harm than good.

Gold squish scaring away people - probably, I got only my feelings about that. It doesn't attract people for sure or maybe someone can tell me with straight face that it does?

[Skoobydoo]

Allright, some points were indeed "made up" as Obnoxious pointed out. Made up as in if -then as logic dictates, i mean as my logic dictates. I guess that's why I put it out in public, to gain more perspectives. So far just a surface "everyone much gold inflation squish make healthy" thoughts. So I asked you too, you dont have to change my mind or anything.

And you seem to think that collecting data is something exclusive, weird.
So far in my made up numbers and that one time one guy said on Trade chat - everything points to last and this squish doing more harm than good.

Gold squish scaring away people - probably, I got only my feelings about that. It doesn't attract people for sure or maybe someone can tell me with straight face that it does?

It is exclusive to Warmane yes. How can you possible know how much gold is generate per mont or year? How can you possible know how much of this is sitting in banks or is in circulattion? How can you possible know how much is drain out of circulation? How can you possible make any logical conclusions on the squish when you dont have access to any actualy data?

[angrylol]

Wait, isn't the squish about healthy economy? I'm referring to AH data. While not whole extent of "circulation" its pretty reliable and factual information and conclusions from it are accurate.

[Overloard99]

For the guy above that said ''This server is pay-to-win''. Pay to win doesn't always just means ''buying something that you cannot normally have''. No it can also mean skipping tons of grinding time and so on. Someone can just enter in arena with full wratful + shadowmourne and hey he beaten you because he paid for that while you still have to grind a lot. Is that not a pay-to-win? I think it is but hell that's your opinion.

On every major forum websites, they gonna tell you it is but I'm not here to judge anyway. That's just my thing on this. But then again, these people are the main reason this server exists so...

[Disktrasa]

I don't think I've ever played any game that offers items to buy which makes you stronger then everyone else, Items which cannot be obtained by playing.
Btw the "Pay to win" term was most likely made up by a child with no money whose mad at the option to pay for gear, so don't take the words literally.
Icecrown is "pay to win".
Lordaeron is not "pay to win".