I just did ICC 25 heroic gunship and the item named "Shadowvault Slayer's Cloak" dropped.
The raid ended and the rolls were coming in, I rolled for that item and won it but the leader refused to give it to me because that cloak is bad for a warrior and is not main spec.
I am a fury warrior, others also said that cloak is terrible and I should learn my class.
I looked the item up and it says clearly that it is BiS for fury warrior, just came here for confirmation, can't report the leader anymore because it's too late probably but just wanted to put it here.
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Member
Fury warrior ICC item roll
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Forum Veteran
Next time ask RL, if you're allowed to roll on an item. If they're confused or something, point them to a class guide.
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Forum Veteran
Isn't cloak from TOGC25 BiS because you can stack more str instead of arp (str vs haste) ?
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Member
It might be BIS for fury war. But the thing is had you capped your hit, expertise, and armor penetration? Are you sure you can get other BIS pieces or capped the stats even wearing the cloak?
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Forum Veteran
It's not BIS, I have some vague memories that even EoF agil cloak is better because you can put in 3 str gems and str > haste
It is bis for Retri tough. And probably some bench classes like assasin and enhance.
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Member
Well, got no BiS pieces yet so I didn't hit my cap for sure, but the cloak from TOGC25 is indeed BiS aswell, kinda confused about the 2 cloaks. Still a weird move from the raid leader to refuse to give it to me... nothing to do about it anymore :/
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Banned
I know how it feels, I once won leather boots from marrow 25 as ret pala. Leader didn't want to give that to me despite no one actually needing it. He gave it to some random warrior/rogue eh... ''pala cannot use leather''.
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Forum Veteran
About that cloak basically;
icc cloak:
60 haste and you stack 60 arp
togc cloak(same with EoF cloak)
60 arp and you stack 60 str
Sure if specs that use it as BiS dont need it you should have gotten it when you win the roll, it's considerable upgrade.
But if, for example, holy pala wanted that cloak for his OS ret.. idk, I wouldn't expect it to get it if I were in your shoes. What I mean, it surely is upgrade, but it's best for some specs while you will replace it.
I guess in the end its up to you and RL to negotiate.
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The Great Detective
Since when do you refuse to give somebody items based on their stats? Do you do a quick sim on 24 people before starting the raid to see their possible upgrades? Based on this logic you shouldn't give a mage VDW chest if they're using, let's say, tailoring boots. Because they're gonna be over hit capped.
If it's BiS or close to BiS and he wins the roll, you give him the item. It's not your job to fix the dude's stats afterwards.
So the difference between a 277 item and a 264 one is just different gemming?
Shadowvault vs EoF cloak -- +12 agy/+12 stamina/+15 attack power/ 68 haste vs 52 arp
Leaving the stamina aside since nobody actually cares about survivability especially on a 50k hp warrior, you gain 70 stats + 15 ap vs 52 arp. Converted into gems, to make it easier for some people to understand, that's 3.94 gems vs 2.1 gems. Yes, it's not strength, it's not optimal, but that's still almost like having an extra profession.
Togc cloak > Shadowvault > Winding >= Eof claok --> strictly on bis+shadowmourn. Stat scaling differs depending on your gear.
Doing a quick rawr on bis gear --> Shadowvault sims at 19207, EoF sims at 19117 with fixed gems and stats.
Contrary to popular belief, haste is not a dead stat. Quite the opposite, it does really well with the proper gear setup and it comes really close to strength in AoE fights. More haste = more white attacks = increased frequency of heroic strikes which is your top dps ability on single target fights.
"Increased attack speed also helps re-proccing your proc-based effects that are subject to internal cooldowns. It can also increase the uptime of procs that are not ICD-limited, even if the proc chance is determined on a PPM-basis. For example, an increase in haste will allow a specific amount of attack power to be delivered more quickly, making each point of attack power better than it was without that haste increase. This phenomenon is extremely prevalent with periodic buffs."
" Specific PPM value directly translates to a chance of occurrence on the connection of a physical ability in that hand. Proc chance per hit is not affected by increased attack speed effects. However, the more often your attacks will come due to those effects, the more opportunities will come for that chance to occur in the same time frame. The higher the PPM and slower the weapon speed, the higher chance to proc will be per hit." -- Quoted from a reliable source
That's why I mentioned earlier that stat scaling changes depending on your gear. Having shadowmourne increases the effectiveness of haste due to uptime on double berserking+choas bane in the same time frame.
As an added bonus information, haste and flurry do not stack multiplicatively with heroism/bloodlust making both of them better in that 30 second time frame.
I don't plan on joining a raid to negotiate the terms in which I can get an item that I'm going to use or that I find to be an upgrade. If I wanted some adrenaline rush from negotiating I'd just whisper somebody selling primos on trade chat.
Please do not spread misinformation for the sole purpose of stacking up your forum post count. This is not only for angrylol. If you're not sure about something make it clear that it's your opinion and not reliable information.Edited: February 16, 2020
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Forum Veteran
So it's OK to take someones BIS just because your sim showed +110 dps? :D
And haste is actually even less valuable than sims show. Please tell all those warriors who uses Eof cloak till they get togc cloak what kind of noobs they are and have fallen for this misinfomation. And tell that one warrior from 100 who has sadowvault cloak how amazing he is, despite he having that cloak simple because no one needed it.
It obvious you have not raided and don't know that stat calculations are not a single factor in giving loot.
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The Great Detective
It's about denying somebody an item because you are misinformed. And I love how I took my time to explain the reasoning behind the item choice and you just threw everything out the window with yet another unbacked, wrong opinion. At this point I'm not sure if you're trolling or your brain is on battery saver mode.
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Forum Veteran
Dude, youa re actually trying to say that haste is more valuable than same amount of str?
I'ts about being respectful to others and letting them get their BIS at expense of your 110dps before you get your actual BIS. Obviously pugs don't think so, note how OP avoided naming class/spec who got that cloak? I bet it was BIS whoever got it.
"It's about denying somebody an item because you are misinformed." Exactly that's right, that is EXACTLY what I'm saying.
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The Great Detective
So Tosk is strictly a rogue/fdk item? You're not going to give it to a cat/bear or warrior, especially in a pug?
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Forum Veteran
What are you trippin on about now. Umbrage vs Tosks?
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Member
1) Its not. If you do properly gearing through the regular way, you can actually kinda guess whether they hit the cap based on their appearance. This is without factoring in the transmog. I did gear my war without any boosting and its not that easy to capped the 3 stats without t10 gears.
2) The caster one is more complex to guess than melee. I got nth to say about it. If caster gears drop and its not mp5 then its free roll for casters.
3) Yes. haste does benefits war but is it really better than arp before the cap? Besides i have never seen people show thorough study on how haste affect physical dps. People just say it is beneficial but how many haste will show the difference? How many amount of haste will increase your hit amount? Is haste really favorable if we factor in swing timer reset? Is haste better than arp?
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