1. May 22, 2020  
    Last time I checked you couldn't right click a vendor and get a free TOGC/ICC + s7gear on Lordaeron. :)
    You didn't say click a vendor and get the gear, you said for free, implying this content is unavailable on Lordareon or is unobtainable unless donating. No need to move goal posts.

    Not assuming anything, I'm playing on Blackrock for the past year and the advantage it gives over Lordaeron players is straight up unfair. The moment you create a character, not only is it lvl 80 which skips over the lvling , that players from other realms have to do (yes, even Icecrown players),
    The amount of time spent leveling, if at all, is completely irrelevant to PvP at 80.

    but you also get a starter gear which is way higher than the average on Lordaeron , that includes s7 set and 264 PVE items all of that for FREE. So yeah, Blackrock players don't EARN the gear like Lordaeron players do, all they have to do is either click the vendor two times or donate BIS gear.
    Great! Then people complaining in this thread that they're critically undergeared for PvP can spend 15 seconds creating a Blackrock toon and get full relentless/264 PvE for """"FREE"""" until their character on Lordareon is as geared, with zero downsides! But something tells me that this still won't satisfy them because they'll have to actually play the game to get bis PvP gear and bis PvE offpieces, and still be at a 'disadvantage' to people who have played longer.

    If this happens I quit the server.
    Why? The Lordareon realm design was a competitive, buffed progressive realm to encourage PvE competition. The realm has been fully progressed for over two years now, and more guilds are killing LoD. ICC has since been repeatedly nerfed heavily to such an extent that min-maxxing and learning how to play the absolute best of your class is no longer required -- the "hardcore" in "hardcore realm" is more like "semi-core" now. Big players still exist, but even among LoD-killing guilds, they're far and few between, as most players just play off of gear. When Sindra's enrage was extended by 30 seconds, like 3 guilds secured their first Sindra HC kill. When Professor lost 5m hp, Prof became a joke boss. When BQL lost 8m hp, she lost being the indicator if a guild is good: now that indicator is if a guild is pulling LoD. When LK's 25 enrage timer was extended to 15 minutes from 13:38 it made it possible for guilds to kill it/start farming. Why didn't you quit when all of these bosses got nerfed? You're not a "hardcore" player if you play here anymore; people just want to feel like they're hardcore and ride this elevated sense of superiority to **** on Icecrown players.
    Edited: May 22, 2020

  2. May 22, 2020  
    You have nothing better to do than to come to Lordaeron subforum and spam your own "yada yada yada"? You admitted that you don't even play here.

    I just have one more thing to add for you (something I hope you learn from): "Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something." - Plato
    :yawn: yada yada yada! You said something because you had to say something.

  3. May 22, 2020  
    Why? The Lordareon realm design was a competitive, buffed progressive realm to encourage PvE competition. The realm has been fully progressed for over two years now, and more guilds are killing LoD. ICC has since been repeatedly nerfed heavily to such an extent that min-maxxing and learning how to play the absolute best of your class is no longer required -- the "hardcore" in "hardcore realm" is more like "semi-core" now. Big players still exist, but even among LoD-killing guilds, they're far and few between, as most players just play off of gear. When Sindra's enrage was extended by 30 seconds, like 3 guilds secured their first Sindra HC kill. When Professor lost 5m hp, Prof became a joke boss. When BQL lost 8m hp, she lost being the indicator if a guild is good: now that indicator is if a guild is pulling LoD. When LK's 25 enrage timer was extended to 15 minutes from 13:38 it made it possible for guilds to kill it/start farming. Why didn't you quit when all of these bosses got nerfed? You're not a "hardcore" player if you play here anymore; people just want to feel like they're hardcore and ride this elevated sense of superiority to **** on Icecrown players.
    1. I keep searching for a post where it explains what they wanted to encourage. Everywhere it is stated that they want to provide a more difficult and challenging enviornment than Icecrown.
    2. The server hasn't been "fully progressed" by more than a handful of people of a less of a handful of G1s of less than less than a handful of guilds. "Now more guilds are killing LoD"; take a look.

    3. "min-maxxing and learning how to play the absolute best of your class is no longer required" - false. Try to join a guild that's progressing. Every second counts. So many times I've killed HC bosses at 0.5s of enrage or even passed the enrage. The following after that sentence is refuted by the same argument. Nerfing content completely undoable to a challenging state was not nerfing it to the point that it'd be nice to completely revert the changes.
    4. "When LK's 25 enrage timer was extended to 15 minutes from 13:38 it made it possible for guilds to kill it/start farming" - again, check the image. I don't see much farming there.
    5. About the last part, it feels you are butthurt. I don't feel any superiority, I'm just trying to make a case to try to get the PvP of Lordaeron to a playable state, but all I find are Icecrown players coming to the forum just to tell Lordaeron players how wrong they are by not wanting to have a realm like the one they have.

  4. May 23, 2020  
    1. I keep searching for a post where it explains what they wanted to encourage. Everywhere it is stated that they want to provide a more difficult and challenging enviornment than Icecrown.
    Correct, and "hardcore" PvE servers will attract a ton of players who want to play with other actual hardcore players. This doesn't need to be explicitly stated; these types of servers attract players with the hardcore mindset. I've seen people from old guilds on Lordareon jump around to every new WotLK private server promising buffed, hardcore content just so they can compete with others. And now, most of these players are playing on Frostmourne.

    2. The server hasn't been "fully progressed" by more than a handful of people of a less of a handful of G1s of less than less than a handful of guilds. "Now more guilds are killing LoD"; take a look.
    The content is fully progressed, I never said every guild has progressed every bit of content, and you can't even say that for Icecrown, but that's digressing. The entire purpose of having hardcore realms is so hardcore players can race to clear the content the quickest -- this was done over two years ago. After LoD was killed by MEMORIES way back when, a LOT of big players quit cause the race was over. Some stayed, a lot quit, but at the end of the day, new players came to play here for whatever reason. The unique feature of a realm like Frostmourne that has yearly cycles means this will always let hardcore players have a place to go to compete. Lordareon's title of being "hardcore" is anachronistic, especially since after all the nerfs. So why even pretend?

    3. "min-maxxing and learning how to play the absolute best of your class is no longer required" - false. Try to join a guild that's progressing. Every second counts. So many times I've killed HC bosses at 0.5s of enrage or even passed the enrage. The following after that sentence is refuted by the same argument. Nerfing content completely undoable to a challenging state was not nerfing it to the point that it'd be nice to completely revert the changes.
    Back when these bosses were unnerfed, you had to push and maximize every little bit of DPS that you could muster, you HAD to play perfectly, you had to respect tactics, and you had to know fights well enough that you knew exactly where you would be at every point of the fight. Because if you didn't, you would die, not pull enough DPS, or some other situation that would cause the entire raid to fail because of one person's failure to play well. None of this is required now to kill these bosses. Do you see why the two guilds, who have been dead for about a year, still hold their kill times in top 3 on LoD, despite 9 or 10 new guilds have killed LoD since then? Hell, even Illusion who got their fastest kill last night, who four healed it, and STILL didn't beat Raven's time (largely because one person died near the start of P3, but even having one more DPS 2/3 of the fight should not result in only a 8 second lead). Now compare their kill time to Blasters, who also 4 healed their speed kill. There's a clear difference between the quality of the guilds' players.

    Every second counts because people have no concept of minmaxxing in these newly "progressive" guilds. I've played with these "progressive" guilds. They have no concept of minmaxxing. They're garbage players, and that's fine, because everyone was garbage too, but that doesn't make the realm hardcore or the content difficult. The error lies between the chair and keyboard.

    4. "When LK's 25 enrage timer was extended to 15 minutes from 13:38 it made it possible for guilds to kill it/start farming" - again, check the image. I don't see much farming there.
    Then you apparently don't know who is doing what.

    5. About the last part, it feels you are butthurt. I don't feel any superiority, I'm just trying to make a case to try to get the PvP of Lordaeron to a playable state, but all I find are Icecrown players coming to the forum just to tell Lordaeron players how wrong they are by not wanting to have a realm like the one they have.
    Yeah, I am "butthurt" people who are drunk with the idea of being a "hardcore player" for playing on a realm that has been repeatedly nerfed multiple times in the past 2 years, are using this elevated sense of being to **** on another realm, even though their individual play is garbage.
    Edited: May 23, 2020

  5. May 24, 2020  
    Just came back to Warmane since 2016(?) cause of quarantine.

    Not sure how I feel about the cross-realm BG. In one hand it feels good to have near instant queue, on the other hand it feels very unrewarding to be mid-high tier geared because you will still likely get overpowered by most players from the other realms for obvious reasons. If it had been a Lordaeron-only BG, you know you would most likely have wrecked the floor.

    Then again, I find Lordaeron players performing much better in BGs. They actually care more about the tactical advantages during the match, while Blackrock players are usually mindless drones who hack and smash for mindless HK farm. Blackrock players generally recieves a lot of hate in many BG, while Lordaeron players are often praised for simply coming from Lordaeron server.

  6. May 27, 2020  
    Just came back to Warmane since 2016(?) cause of quarantine.
    Then again, I find Lordaeron players performing much better in BGs. They actually care more about the tactical advantages during the match, while Blackrock players are usually mindless drones who hack and smash for mindless HK farm.
    That's cause in most cases we just want to be done with it, and get 1 daily win for arena points.
    No one likes to be underdog.

    But even so, lets say cross-realm battlegrounds are fine, and they should remain as it is.

    But Loarderon in cross-realm arenas? Now that is just plain stupid.

    It's for a reason you can't see any Loarderon teams in Top 50. And it's not about skill but huge gear disadvantages.

  7. May 27, 2020  
    can't get rank = can't get gear = can't get rank

    and don't start talking about skills > gear theories... all of them are just assuming the IC players don't know how to pvp and therefore you can outskill them with lower gear.

  8. May 27, 2020  
    I'd like to see those skill>gear people fight someone with full BIS items with furious gear. It doesn't even have to be full BIS, just someone geared better than them like full wrathful.
    Skill is skill and gear is gear. In order to be competitive you need both.

  9. May 27, 2020  
    It's for a reason you can't see any Loarderon teams in Top 50. And it's not about skill but huge gear disadvantages.
    You can't see Lordareon teams in top 50 because a) Lordareon players are, on average, worse than PvPers on other realms, b) there's a significantly larger PvP population on both Icecrown and Blackrock that take up the top 50 spots. This doesn't mean Lordareon doesn't have some big teams but most people are just bad at PvP. There's multiple teams over 2k in 3s this season, the highest being 2.3k.

    I'd like to see those skill>gear people fight someone with full BIS items with furious gear. It doesn't even have to be full BIS, just someone geared better than them like full wrathful.
    Skill is skill and gear is gear. In order to be competitive you need both.
    Why would you gimp yourself playing in furious gear when you can create a toon on Blackrock in 10 seconds and have full relentless right from the start? You can play this Blackrock toon until your Lordareon toon gets more geared. Of course you don't start BIS and have to work your way up, unless you're suggesting it's impossible for Blackrock players to climb/get full wrathful? Gear of course plays an impact in your performance, and yet there's people with all of this BIS gear hardstuck at 1.8. You're talking about low level arena as though it's 2.6k.

  10. May 27, 2020  
    You can't see Lordareon teams in top 50 because a) Lordareon players are, on average, worse than PvPers on other realms, b) there's a significantly larger PvP population on both Icecrown and Blackrock that take up the top 50 spots.
    there's a significantly larger PvP population on both Icecrown and Blackrock that take up the top 50 spots.
    b is a effect of rates and shop. Join cross realm and you have zero reason to get gear on lordaeron outside of pve progress.

    in a hypotethic scenario where lordaeron get instant max level and free 282+legendaries just for login, i secure you that top 50 will be full of "lordaeron" players.

    Players will move where they have to move in order to pvp and lordaeron isn't a place for that.

    Is the same logic applied for every man for himself.

    so by your logic:
    "a)non human players are on average, worse than PvPers human players"

    it's like say that people that use a submachine gun are more letal than people that use a handgun, when the letal factor comes from the weapon and not from the person.

    You can kill the submachine gun guy with a handgun if they don't know how to unlock the gun, that doesn't mean the handgun is more letal lol.

    Again, people will pick the team that allow then to wear submachine guns over the handgun team.

    The idea here is things are working as intended.

  11. May 28, 2020  

  12. May 28, 2020  
    b is a effect of rates and shop. Join cross realm and you have zero reason to get gear on lordaeron outside of pve progress.

    in a hypotethic scenario where lordaeron get instant max level and free 282+legendaries just for login, i secure you that top 50 will be full of "lordaeron" players.

    Players will move where they have to move in order to pvp and lordaeron isn't a place for that.

    Is the same logic applied for every man for himself.

    so by your logic:
    "a)non human players are on average, worse than PvPers human players"

    it's like say that people that use a submachine gun are more letal than people that use a handgun, when the letal factor comes from the weapon and not from the person.

    You can kill the submachine gun guy with a handgun if they don't know how to unlock the gun, that doesn't mean the handgun is more letal lol.

    Again, people will pick the team that allow then to wear submachine guns over the handgun team.

    The idea here is things are working as intended.
    Pretty accurate.
    It doesn't help either that some of the best PvP classes (which are also overpopulated, as expected) are among the easiest to perform decently with, and are also among the most forgiving ones as well (for instance, one mistake as a rogue and to the graveyard you go unless you blow most of your cds -and even then...-).

  13. May 28, 2020  
    b is a effect of rates and shop. Join cross realm and you have zero reason to get gear on lordaeron outside of pve progress.
    Right, because the purpose of Lordareon was buffed PvE content so it wasn't so much of a cakewalk as retail values are. It's no surprise PvPers will choose realms that grant instant 80 or accelerated leveling if they also want to do some PvE as well. This isn't an argument, it's just the facts.

    in a hypotethic scenario where lordaeron get instant max level and free 282+legendaries just for login, i secure you that top 50 will be full of "lordaeron" players.

    Players will move where they have to move in order to pvp and lordaeron isn't a place for that.
    Because that would attract a PvP player, however not even Blackrock gives full wrathful + bis PvE pieces, so this point is arbitrary. Relative to Icecrown and Blackrock's advantages for a PvPer, of course it would make sense for a PvPer to roll on those realms, however it doesn't mean you're incapable of getting the same exact gear as players on those realms on Lordareon. The realm design of Lordareon is posted every time you login. https://i.imgur.com/32ipF3q.png Again, not an argument, just a statement of fact.

    Is the same logic applied for every man for himself.
    so by your logic:
    "a)non human players are on average, worse than PvPers human players"
    it's like say that people that use a submachine gun are more letal than people that use a handgun, when the letal factor comes from the weapon and not from the person.
    You can kill the submachine gun guy with a handgun if they don't know how to unlock the gun, that doesn't mean the handgun is more letal lol.
    Again, people will pick the team that allow then to wear submachine guns over the handgun team.
    The idea here is things are working as intended.
    PvPers will tend to go for min-maxxy things like a free trinket or racials like Shadowmeld as these have potentially larger influences in PvP, whereas PvErs tend to go Horde for stronger PvE racials. However, this does not mean you are unable to become a top ranked PvPer as Horde or a top PvEr as Alliance. This is just the 'hardcore' min-maxxy mindset. This isn't an argument for anything, just a statement of facts.

    I don't disagree with anything you're saying, but it seems better suited to argue for an increase in rates/nerfing of content rather than a removal of Lorda from the battleground. I've said it numerous times: you can spend 10 seconds to create a toon on Blackrock and have full relentless/258 offpieces that you can PvP on until your toon on Lordareon gets the gear you deem necessary to PvP on it.

  14. May 29, 2020  
    They're considering adding three brackets at some point soon, which is great news for us!

    So that only leaves the issue with the Blackrock afk bots :-)

  15. Right, because the purpose of Lordareon was buffed PvE content so it wasn't so much of a cakewalk as retail values are. It's no surprise PvPers will choose realms that grant instant 80 or accelerated leveling if they also want to do some PvE as well. This isn't an argument, it's just the facts.
    You're proving the point of Lordaeron players with this, all you need to do is look at it from Lordaeron pov.

    Lordaeron players chose Lordaeron mainly because of the pve content. However, alot of them also like to occasionally do pvp.
    The mixed BGs and arenas make this occasional pvp impossible

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