Goodbye Lordaeron PVP

[IcarNS]

What I fail to understand is why is it so hard to understand what's been said multiple times for so long:
- Proterean said their philosophy is to allow users to opt in or out of custom features, yet I can't see a button to switch xrealm ON or OFF.
- People join Lordaeron beacuse it does not have cash shop, yet they end up facing people that bought their gear.
- People in-game do *not* want xrealm, just ask around. Literally, go around asking about it. Bring it up in /global.
- Numbers speak for themselves. SysAdmins can check the numbers and tell us how % of people actually play BGs, let alone arenas, in Lordaeron. But you don't need that, just spend a day playing PvP with your Lordaeron character and count the amount of people in each battle that is from Lordaeron.
- The whole purpose of the Mercenary Mode (MM) was to decrese queue times. But at the same time I remember getting xrealm, which hadn't been asked to the playerbase, like they did with MM, and enforcing it without a toggle. MM = lower queue times, you don't need xrealm.

So why enable xrealm for a server that was designed as a hardcore 1x no-cash-shop?

But then you can see they started doing xmas events, like a fun realm like Icecrown, allowing people to skip the majority of the gearing process to get into EoF directly. You can tell their point of view of the realm has shifted and you can't expect them to treat it like they announced it to be at release time. If they are enforcing xrealm and they have been ignoring "disable/toggle option xrealm" suggestions, it's because they don't care anymore. They are OK with the PvP aspect of the realm to be dead. So be it.

[Spartan8801]

But then you can see they started doing xmas events, like a fun realm like Icecrown, allowing people to skip the majority of the gearing process to get into EoF directly. You can tell their point of view of the realm has shifted and you can't expect them to treat it like they announced it to be at release time. If they are enforcing xrealm and they have been ignoring "disable/toggle option xrealm" suggestions, it's because they don't care anymore. They are OK with the PvP aspect of the realm to be dead. So be it.

Couldn't have said it better than what you write right there. The realm indeed shifted, as TBC realm did. There is nothing constant, everything is evolving and changing around the needs of the player base. I for once am not against any of the people wanting optional Cross realm, I'm against people wanting it disabled, because its not what everyone wants.

I only doubt they don't care, they care as this is 1/3 of their playerbase. I guess they have their reasons for everything. Its not like any of us is part of the staff.

[baxuz]

Dear Both,

There is no need to argue, cross-realm is healthy, not for everyone of course, but its healthy for more people than its hurting.
Otherwise blizzard wouldn't have implemented the idea the first time.

I guess Warmane staff has the last word for this, but i don't see this going away any time soon. ITS THE MOST BLIZZLIKE FUTURE. The age of the realms involved are the actual reason behind the problems, but there is nothing you can do except joining the newly opened realm and be competitive there.

And look how that ended. Noone likes crossrealm on retail as well (at least the old players that experienced the state before it) because it killed the community. You just queue and fight randoms. Just being the Blizzard feature doesnt mean its good for the game. Retail at least has Asmongold to sh*t on them untill they get their sh*t together and start making the game for the players and not for the shareholders. Its sad to see that Warmane follows Blizzard's footsteps even tho the company they look up to is one of the most hated ones. Warmane staff has the last word, of course, but none of them plays on Lord, thats why we're here to provide the feedback.

[Frysharry]

As I said before, you had to wait few minutes in peak hours. Lordaeron HAD 5k players on peak hours. Lordaeron WAS STILL ADVERTISED as HARDCORE PVE REALM. Naturally, mostly people interested in PvE played and stayed on Lordaeron.

Lordaeron had 10k players, if not more, on peak hours for a last year.
Lordaeron now has 12k peak easily. There's less than 100 players playing BGs. What does that tell you? Now that so many new people joined, now that so many players had no clue about cross-realm or increased PvE difficulty on Lordaeron or anything of the sort there's a total of less than a hundred players actively playing BGs on a 12k population.

We had the 4-5k peak before coronavirus and only increased to current levels because of quarantine. After quarantine ends, population will take a massive hit. Keeping in mind a majority of this 12k number are people leveling mains/alts instead of gearing at 80 right now and that BG brackets are broken, why is "only" 100 people a bad number? Are you really suggesting 100 people would be queueing before crossrealm? Maybe on a Tuesday afternoon on peak EU times when raids are pretty much done for the week.

More importantly, why would people queue BGs right now when they're getting teamed with fresh 80s and low geared 80s? It significantly decreases any chances of winning and is not fun to play with/against, especially as the reverse (low geared players queueing into full relentless or better geared players). But even against evenly geared teams/starter gear (Blackrock), some people are still awful. I don't queue BGs anymore unless I queue with a premade because just five of us is significant enough to influence the flow of games.

Assuming BG brackets are fixed, most games are relatively even. Sometimes one side gets better players and smashes, but generally speaking it's pretty even. I don't understand why anyone is opposed to it. The gear disparity between Lorda and IC/Blackrock is significantly smaller, if not out-right irrelevant. And if you're so undergeared but still want to PvP, you can easily make a toon on Blackrock with starter gear, which is full relentless, until you are able to get the gear on Lordareon.

What I fail to understand is why is it so hard to understand what's been said multiple times for so long:
- Proterean said their philosophy is to allow users to opt in or out of custom features, yet I can't see a button to switch xrealm ON or OFF.

This is not an end-all legally binding statement. They can put whatever exceptions to this as they please. It's their realm and their servers.

- People join Lordaeron beacuse it does not have cash shop, yet they end up facing people that bought their gear.

If you don't have sufficient gear on Lordareon, create a toon on Blackrock, which will give you full relentless gear. This is completely free and anyone can do it.

- People in-game do *not* want xrealm, just ask around. Literally, go around asking about it. Bring it up in /global.
- Numbers speak for themselves. SysAdmins can check the numbers and tell us how % of people actually play BGs, let alone arenas, in Lordaeron. But you don't need that, just spend a day playing PvP with your Lordaeron character and count the amount of people in each battle that is from Lordaeron.

Numbers don't speak for themselves, because there are circumstances and personal preferences you're not accounting for. Currently, for me, I haven't queued a BG in a couple weeks. The BG brackets are in fact bugged/broken and I don't want to play against/with fresh 80s or super low geared 80s that have zero impact and will die in actually two globals. People who are unaware of how the BG brackets are supposed to work may assume that this is an intentional design of "crossrealm" and this will significantly influence their opinion of the feature.

So why enable xrealm for a server that was designed as a hardcore 1x no-cash-shop? But then you can see they started doing xmas events, like a fun realm like Icecrown, allowing people to skip the majority of the gearing process to get into EoF directly.

Because MM wouldn't solve the issue of having a significantly smaller player base, nor would it change the fact that people don't enjoy being gear bashed repeatedly without any chance of winning. Furthermore, why anyone would be against players gearing up faster is beyond me, especially a main crux of this entire thread is how impossible it is to get PvE offpieces because of "muh hardcore PvE". You are still unable to purchase gear, the experience rates are still 1x, and bosses are still buffed - they never promised a "blizz-like" server, and you're in no way compelled or forced to do seasonal events.

And believe it or not, things like dungeon finder and heirlooms were disabled for the first 2 or 3 years of the realm, as this was a core feature of the realm. Should we go back to having lowbies having to walk around the world to each dungeon entrance, or can we admit that changing this core feature of the realm was a good thing for encouraging new players and leveling alts?

[Whaddupname]

We had the 4-5k peak before coronavirus and only increased to current levels because of quarantine. After quarantine ends, population will take a massive hit. Keeping in mind a majority of this 12k number are people leveling mains/alts instead of gearing at 80 right now and that BG brackets are broken, why is "only" 100 people a bad number? Are you really suggesting 100 people would be queueing before crossrealm? Maybe on a Tuesday afternoon on peak EU times when raids are pretty much done for the week.

More importantly, why would people queue BGs right now when they're getting teamed with fresh 80s and low geared 80s? It significantly decreases any chances of winning and is not fun to play with/against, especially as the reverse (low geared players queueing into full relentless or better geared players). But even against evenly geared teams/starter gear (Blackrock), some people are still awful. I don't queue BGs anymore unless I queue with a premade because just five of us is significant enough to influence the flow of games.

Assuming BG brackets are fixed, most games are relatively even. Sometimes one side gets better players and smashes, but generally speaking it's pretty even. I don't understand why anyone is opposed to it. The gear disparity between Lorda and IC/Blackrock is significantly smaller, if not out-right irrelevant. And if you're so undergeared but still want to PvP, you can easily make a toon on Blackrock with starter gear, which is full relentless, until you are able to get the gear on Lordareon.


This is not an end-all legally binding statement. They can put whatever exceptions to this as they please. It's their realm and their servers.



If you don't have sufficient gear on Lordareon, create a toon on Blackrock, which will give you full relentless gear. This is completely free and anyone can do it.



Numbers don't speak for themselves, because there are circumstances and personal preferences you're not accounting for. Currently, for me, I haven't queued a BG in a couple weeks. The BG brackets are in fact bugged/broken and I don't want to play against/with fresh 80s or super low geared 80s that have zero impact and will die in actually two globals. People who are unaware of how the BG brackets are supposed to work may assume that this is an intentional design of "crossrealm" and this will significantly influence their opinion of the feature.



Because MM wouldn't solve the issue of having a significantly smaller player base, nor would it change the fact that people don't enjoy being gear bashed repeatedly without any chance of winning. Furthermore, why anyone would be against players gearing up faster is beyond me, especially a main crux of this entire thread is how impossible it is to get PvE offpieces because of "muh hardcore PvE". You are still unable to purchase gear, the experience rates are still 1x, and bosses are still buffed - they never promised a "blizz-like" server, and you're in no way compelled or forced to do seasonal events.

And believe it or not, things like dungeon finder and heirlooms were disabled for the first 2 or 3 years of the realm, as this was a core feature of the realm. Should we go back to having lowbies having to walk around the world to each dungeon entrance, or can we admit that changing this core feature of the realm was a good thing for encouraging new players and leveling alts?

You made a lot of good points, and I agree, the server population is what matters the most to the Warmane team probably.

Like I've said, best thing would be to let some time pass, see if the population remains healthy after the corona crisis, and then, they don't even have to implement anything. They can just make a poll (to make it optional for example) and see what the people want. They don't have to act on it right away, just to have it in the back of their head.

[Greedman45]

I have said it before, ill say it again. Before crossrealm lordaeron had 1) a pvp community 2) insta pop arena and bg as a horde 3)People pvping. Now there is none. I myself has stoped playing pvp on lordaeron as i farmed my *** of getting my priest to 5900 full pvp and now to get to 1950 to get the wrathfull head i face teams full of smourne plater + bis healer with 6300 gs+ and obviously even if they are less skilled we dont have the stats to beat them. Arena previously was fun and interractive and bgs felt great, playing against known people(by you), making enemies and allies, knowing that you met your opponent in a bg was fun. The gearing process felt rewarding. Now it is ****. 1400-1800 rating in arena is swarmed by smournes and bis(i played 20 arenas yday on icecrown and met 0(YES 0) teams without smourne), and you honestly cant pvp gear your toon on lord. I pved a lot, got what i wanted from there now wanted to keep pvping just as i did on progression of the server when pvp existed on lordaeron. Guess what, its not fun. Not fun at all.

If xrealm remains on lordaeron I dont see why cash shop isnt enabled cause right now i just feel i wasted my time with my toons there(since i cant get the gear im missing from pvping) and just play icecrown/fmmourne/blackrock..

[mrmup]

I have said it before, ill say it again. Before crossrealm lordaeron had 1) a pvp community 2) insta pop arena and bg as a horde 3)People pvping. Now there is none. I myself has stoped playing pvp on lordaeron as i farmed my *** of getting my priest to 5900 full pvp and now to get to 1950 to get the wrathfull head i face teams full of smourne plater + bis healer with 6300 gs+ and obviously even if they are less skilled we dont have the stats to beat them. Arena previously was fun and interractive and bgs felt great, playing against known people(by you), making enemies and allies, knowing that you met your opponent in a bg was fun. The gearing process felt rewarding. Now it is ****. 1400-1800 rating in arena is swarmed by smournes and bis(i played 20 arenas yday on icecrown and met 0(YES 0) teams without smourne), and you honestly cant pvp gear your toon on lord. I pved a lot, got what i wanted from there now wanted to keep pvping just as i did on progression of the server when pvp existed on lordaeron. Guess what, its not fun. Not fun at all.

If xrealm remains on lordaeron I dont see why cash shop isnt enabled cause right now i just feel i wasted my time with my toons there(since i cant get the gear im missing from pvping) and just play icecrown/fmmourne/blackrock..

You are absolutely right and I agree. Before players with any gear were Queueing for arena because they knew they could play against some team like themselves. Dalaran underground was full of players joining arena and dueling each other but now you can hardly find them. For BG queue was a few minutes that Mercenary Mode actually reduced the Q time not cross-realm. I hope they remove cross-realm for Lordaeron specially arena or at least make it optional so that players choose to stay in it or not.

[Frysharry]

I have said it before, ill say it again. Before crossrealm lordaeron had 1) a pvp community 2) insta pop arena and bg as a horde 3)People pvping. Now there is none.

You can stop lying and exaggerating. There are a bunch of PvPers and BG/arena (2s AND 3s) popping all hours of the day, not just EU times.

I myself has stoped playing pvp on lordaeron as i farmed my *** of getting my priest to 5900 full pvp and now to get to 1950 to get the wrathfull head i face teams full of smourne plater + bis healer with 6300 gs+ and obviously even if they are less skilled we dont have the stats to beat them. Arena previously was fun and interractive and bgs felt great, playing against known people(by you), making enemies and allies, knowing that you met your opponent in a bg was fun. The gearing process felt rewarding. Now it is ****. 1400-1800 rating in arena is swarmed by smournes and bis(i played 20 arenas yday on icecrown and met 0(YES 0) teams without smourne), and you honestly cant pvp gear your toon on lord. I pved a lot, got what i wanted from there now wanted to keep pvping just as i did on progression of the ser

I don't understand why you think this would be much different if there was no crossrealm. There are so many smournes on Lorda, especially among PvPers, that it would hardly be noticeable change in terms of gear. It seems you're more upset at the 284 meta and less at crossrealm though, which is perfectly understandable as a Priest since you just get tunneled.

If xrealm remains on lordaeron I dont see why cash shop isnt enabled cause right now i just feel i wasted my time with my toons there(since i cant get the gear im missing from pvping) and just play icecrown/fmmourne/blackrock..

I support nerfing Lorda raid content across the board even more (and not JUST ICC like last nerfs!) and/or enabling ICC buff to make PvE easier since Lorda overstayed its title as being a "hardcore" realm, so I support you in essence here. :)

At the end of the day, the people opposing crossrealm are constantly speaking about Lordareon as though it was in early ICC/late ToC days where only a handful of extremely dedicated players were capable and able to clear content. This is no longer the case and it is way more accessible to everyone who plays here; instead of being able to virtually walk in with blue leveling gear and clear 12/12, you need to have relatively good gear and some experience with your class/role to be able to clear stuff, a requirement that is not excessive nor punitive. If at the time the technology for crossrealm was available, then at that point, of course, I would agree with the criticisms that have been repeatedly stated both in this thread and by others not in here -- however, Lordareon players have access to all of the gear that Icecrown does, it's just a matter of finding a guild with players that have a baseline understanding of their class to get it.

Interestingly enough, I never hear any complaints from Blackrock players who start "undergeared" compared to Icecrown and have to PvP to actually get better gear, but hey :)

[Adrinqt]

Interestingly enough, I never hear any complaints from Blackrock players who start "undergeared" compared to Icecrown and have to PvP to actually get better gear, but hey :)

Are you actually trolling? Why would Blackrock players complain when they are either donating BIS gear (donating isn't exclusive to Icecrown) or having s7 + TOGC/ICC offparts for FREE?

P.S. I'm currently playing on Blackrcok.

[Frysharry]

Are you actually trolling? Why would Blackrock players complain when they are either donating BIS gear (donating isn't exclusive to Icecrown) or having s7 + TOGC/ICC offparts for FREE?

P.S. I'm currently playing on Blackrcok.

You can get PvE offparts for FREE on Icecrown and Lordareon too. People are complaining in this thread about Blackrock and Icecrown having a significant gear advantage, when Blackrock starter gear is not 284 BIS and yet those people grind it out just as much. Why is it everyone who talks about Icecrown and Blackrock assumes they're exclusively donors and nobody has ever earned the content by playing the game?

[Adrinqt]

You can get PvE offparts for FREE on Icecrown and Lordareon too.

Last time I checked you couldn't right click a vendor and get a free TOGC/ICC + s7gear on Lordaeron. :)

Why is it everyone who talks about Icecrown and Blackrock assumes they're exclusively donors and nobody has ever earned the content by playing the game?

Not assuming anything, I'm playing on Blackrock for the past year and the advantage it gives over Lordaeron players is straight up unfair. The moment you create a character, not only is it lvl 80 which skips over the lvling , that players from other realms have to do (yes, even Icecrown players), but you also get a starter gear which is way higher than the average on Lordaeron , that includes s7 set and 264 PVE items all of that for FREE.

So yeah, Blackrock players don't EARN the gear like Lordaeron players do, all they have to do is either click the vendor two times or donate BIS gear.

Imagine being this dense.

[IcarNS]

I support nerfing Lorda raid content across the board even more (and not JUST ICC like last nerfs!) and/or enabling ICC buff to make PvE easier since Lorda overstayed its title as being a "hardcore" realm, so I support you in essence here. :)

If this happens I quit the server.

[Stepkid]

If this happens I quit the server.

Lordaeron players be like if raiding content becomes easier, I quit. If I get farmed in bgs, I quit. If I get vendors for starter gear, I quit. If they increase the XP rate for leveling, reps, and skills, I quit. If cross-realm continues, I quit, and yada, yada, yada. With that being said, do not take any suggestions from Lordaeron players since at the end of the day they all will quit no matter what.

[Dwyn]

Lordaeron players be like if raiding content becomes easier, I quit. If I get farmed in bgs, I quit. If I get vendors for starter gear, I quit. If they increase the XP rate for leveling, reps, and skills, I quit. If cross-realm continues, I quit, and yada, yada, yada. With that being said, do not take any suggestions from Lordaeron players since at the end of the day they all will quit no matter what.

You have nothing better to do than to come to Lordaeron subforum and spam your own "yada yada yada"? You admitted that you don't even play here.

I just have one more thing to add for you (something I hope you learn from): "Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something." - Plato

[Armkron]

Lordaeron players be like if raiding content becomes easier, I quit. If I get farmed in bgs, I quit. If I get vendors for starter gear, I quit. If they increase the XP rate for leveling, reps, and skills, I quit. If cross-realm continues, I quit, and yada, yada, yada. With that being said, do not take any suggestions from Lordaeron players since at the end of the day they all will quit no matter what.

Yes, this is the best option. Damage is already done, the only outlier is a lack of actual server competence population-wise. There is already no point to PvP on Lord, why revive it.

Let it become IC 2.0 or IC's cannon fodder provider.