Goodbye Lordaeron PVP

[OHW0815]

I don't get the attitude. I thought Lordaeron was about the challenge and the advanced difficulty. So why not in PvP?

[Cozzolino]

We signed for hardcore PVE, not underdog PVP

[Stepkid]

What you just said makes no ****ing sense.

I'm 100% sure you've never stepped in a Lordaeron raid. This bull**** right here:



Is a downright lie, only someone who doesn't know what Lordaeron is about would say something like that. You are suggesting that a 1x realm with buffed numbers, lowered berserker timers, and no ICC buff is THE SAME as a 7x realm with blizzlike numbers, blizzlike berserker timers, blizzlike ICC buff. You, sir, are a dishonest person with a dishonest opinion, and you have no right to come here and tell people that their concerns are unfounded just cause you can not grasp the meaning of context. I'll make it easier for your trudging brain to understand the difference:

Lordaeron is WotLK on max difficulty setting
Icecrown is WotLK on easy difficulty setting

On your next ICC25, disable the raid buff and see how far you can get. Know that you are better geared than a Lordaeron player on the same fight AND with the blizzlike numbers. Disable the ICC buff, I dare you, and you would still be experiencing but a washed out version of what Lordaeron is like.

Of course Lordaeron players have issues with crossrealm, because they are playing on Lordaeron. Of course you would not understand the problem, because you never playied on Lordaeron. The issue is not Lordaeron PLAYERS, it's LORDAERON design that does not translate into Icecrown and Blackrock design. And yet here we are, us having to explain the most basic things, and you trying your damn hardest to look like a clown.

All you talk is about PvE and its buffed content on Lordaeron, cross-realm has nothing to do with your buffed PvE content. You might be that typical PvE player in cross-realm bgs running with 0 resilience PvE gear and complaining of getting one shot. The problem is not cross-realm here, the problem is you not getting better in PvP.

I'm enjoying playing cross-realm at the moment, so I don't think it's going to be made optional as long as majority of people like me enjoy playing with instant 30 seconds to 1 minute queue time. Making cross-realm optional just for the sake of Lordaeron players who don't contribute enough to the server will be a big issue for other wotlk realms as well.

[Susanna]

All you talk is about PvE and its buffed content on Lordaeron, cross-realm has nothing to do with your buffed PvE content. You might be that typical PvE player in cross-realm bgs running with 0 resilience PvE gear and complaining of getting one shot. The problem is not cross-realm here, the problem is you not getting better in PvP.

I'm enjoying playing cross-realm at the moment, so I don't think it's going to be made optional as long as majority of people like me enjoy playing with instant 30 seconds to 1 minute queue time. Making cross-realm optional just for the sake of Lordaeron players who don't contribute enough to the server will be a big issue for other wotlk realms as well.

It's actually very relevant, because people often use PvE gear in PvP. The "best" players you see often have several PvE items in their sets. Even if you don't donate for them, getting them is way easier on for example Icecrown (won't even comment about Blackrock...). So there's another reason Lordaeron gets even more "shafted" in the crossrealm bracket.

So do you actually play on Lordaeron and play PvP regularly Stepkid? Because I do, and I've done so since before crossrealm was added. And I can tell you that you're so wrong on so many points throughout this thread.
May I also remind you that at the start of crossrealm there were a lot more Lordaeron players queuing for battlegrounds than there is now. Back then it was usually 1/3 or 1/4 Lordaeron players in every BG. Now it's more like 1/10 or none at all. Why do you think this is? The answer should be obvious.

I can also promise you that most players didn't join Lordaeron for buffed PvE content, they joined the server for the 1x rates. You'd be surprised how many players ask about what "buffed difficulty" means in global every week. They just hear "blizzlike 1x" and join on that reason alone, being oblivious to the harder end-game PvE content. Most people don't read the server info, the server rules or the forums in general.

[Cozzolino]

All you talk is about PvE and its buffed content on Lordaeron, cross-realm has nothing to do with your buffed PvE content. You might be that typical PvE player in cross-realm bgs running with 0 resilience PvE gear and complaining of getting one shot. The problem is not cross-realm here, the problem is you not getting better in PvP.

I'm enjoying playing cross-realm at the moment, so I don't think it's going to be made optional as long as majority of people like me enjoy playing with instant 30 seconds to 1 minute queue time. Making cross-realm optional just for the sake of Lordaeron players who don't contribute enough to the server will be a big issue for other wotlk realms as well.

Once again, you make a foolish statement based on your lack of knowledge, completely disregarding the obvious fact that PVE gear is widely used in PVP aswell. You have nothing to add to this discussion. All you have done is waste people time to be told basic things you seemingly are oblivious to.

[Stepkid]

Once again, you make a foolish statement based on your lack of knowledge, completely disregarding the obvious fact that PVE gear is widely used in PVP aswell. You have nothing to add to this discussion. All you have done is waste people time to be told basic things you seemingly are oblivious to.

Take a look at some of Blackrock players, you think all of them use PvE off parts? Your statemnts are misleading. You are making a fool out of yourself by giving out false information. First educate yourself, then correct others.

[Stepkid]

It's actually very relevant, because people often use PvE gear in PvP. The "best" players you see often have several PvE items in their sets. Even if you don't donate for them, getting them is way easier on for example Icecrown (won't even comment about Blackrock...). So there's another reason Lordaeron gets even more "shafted" in the crossrealm bracket.

So do you actually play on Lordaeron and play PvP regularly Stepkid? Because I do, and I've done so since before crossrealm was added. And I can tell you that you're so wrong on so many points throughout this thread.
May I also remind you that at the start of crossrealm there were a lot more Lordaeron players queuing for battlegrounds than there is now. Back then it was usually 1/3 or 1/4 Lordaeron players in every BG. Now it's more like 1/10 or none at all. Why do you think this is? The answer should be obvious.

I can also promise you that most players didn't join Lordaeron for buffed PvE content, they joined the server for the 1x rates. You'd be surprised how many players ask about what "buffed difficulty" means in global every week. They just hear "blizzlike 1x" and join on that reason alone, being oblivious to the harder end-game PvE content. Most people don't read the server info, the server rules or the forums in general.

Maybe you can make some race other than human which can have one trinket as medallion from honor and you can get the other trinket from honor or WG marks. Also, you can make a class that don't require that many of PvE off parts like Frost mage, desto lock, hybrid dk, etc. All these class do pretty good without PvE off parts. It's just getting to adapt and change accordingly, rather than seeking for easy solutions to make cross-realm optional. Warmane has done a fantastic job on corss-realm and GS bracket system, just because of Lordaeron players who don't contribute enough to this sever Warmane's hard work shouldn't go to waste by making it optional that will affect the other wotlk realms as well.

[sukacakers]

Lordaeron is in a realy sad state due to crossrealm. People have 0 motivation to play arenas due to being massively outgeared. Its almost impossible to climb high enough to even get s8 set pieces for some classes since you only meet decked out teams. Plus its not like 2011 anymore, people actually know how to play and you simply need gear to perform. Atm even the template gear from blackock is itemised better than 90% of lord pvpers.

It doesnt fit in my tiny head how a 12k pop realm needs crossrealm, this is completely bottlenecking lord pvp community atm.

[Frysharry]

It's obvious you're from Icecrown and have no clue what the raiding scene on Lordaeron is so I'll just stop replying here.

k

I really, really, disagree with the notion that Lordaeron got anywhere near being "easy", especially when it comes to Heroic encounters. Pretending getting an ACTUALLY Bis character on Lordaeron is anywhere easy or even remotely a widespread achievement is downright dishonest and stinks of misguided elitism. I don't understand why you would support such a detached point of view. People work their *** off for months building up and training 25 people to even take a shot at LoD. A few other bosses require a similar investment of resources and time aswell, if anything they are still important milestone building up to LoD that still prove to be challenging even for the solid users. 16 guilds ever pulled off a LoD on Lordaeron, less than that currently do, the same applies to the 84 guilds that did on Icecrown, of course. Only the absolute finest have access to the best gear on Lordaeron, and virtually only they can hold a candle against simply "solid" Icecrown player.

I don't understand why everyone talks about Lordareon as though it is the same realm as it was three years ago when ICC was super overtuned. I'm sorry you mistake being told you're bad with elitism, but that's just the fact: you're bad. But there's nothing wrong with that, because everyone was bad at one point too, including myself. The difference is back when I was bad, a guild run was mandatory to even go past 3 bosses in ICC normal. Now you can get a pug that clears 5 HC + 12/12 normal. When I first joined Raven I wiped us two times on my first DBS HC pulls because I taunted boss instead of adds by accident because my Distracting Shot was not on a modifier key (I changed this immediately after and never had this mistake ever again). When I first joined Raven, I didn't have a swing timer for my autoshot so I was playing Hunter essentially blind. My macros weren't optimized, my movement wasn't optimized, I didn't have experience on any of the fights and thus I didn't know how to minmax damage; a mix of inexperience and being bad. And over the years since then, I have learned a deeper understanding of not just my class, but the game as a whole. And yet, despite all of this, ICC was still not 'hard', it just required 25 likeminded people who wanted to kill bosses, minmaxing to the moon and back, something pugs/bad players never understand.

The most interesting thing I always hear from people complaining about difficulty on Lorda is always comparing it to Icecrown, and being dismissive and condescending of players there, even though after years of repeated nerfs on ICC, still complaining that it's 'hard'. Anyone who pulled BQL HC before it was nerfed would tell you the post-nerf makes it faceroll easy. Before the nerf, one or two deaths would mean you lacked DPS to kill it, even in really good gear, assuming you weren't forced to 4 heal it, as many guilds did when progressing it. Professor HC lost like 5m HP, effectively reducing how many oozes you had to play. Sindra HC gained 30 seconds on her enrage, and the week this nerf went through like 3 guilds secured their first guild Sindra HC slay. Bosses like Marrowgar and BPC may have had their HPs increased, but the enrage timer was increased to compensate, so you have to play tactics for longer, a fair trade off that forces players to learn how to minmax, manage their resources, figure out movement, etc. To kill bosses before the nerfs, you had to know how to play your class to the absolute best it can be played; now, not so much.

At the end of the day, I don't want anybody to be in that position, nor - I think - anybody would necessarily be in that position in a world where there's no Crossrealm and Lordaeron PVP scene could grow organically. At the end of the day, nothing you said could convince anyone to get into PVP in the state it is, neither you helped score a LoD for anyone for that matter. If Lordaeron partecipation in PVP has sunken, then it's an issue I personally want to tackle at its roots. It's also an issue you can choose to ignore, but kindly don't try to push your headcanon.

And yet it would inevitably devolve into that, because let's realize that the only reason Lordareon is on peak population is because of quarantine. I've seen old players from years ago come back to start playing again, only because they cannot do other stuff IRL. Once the population shrinks back to 4-5k, we're going to be back in the same problem as before, which you people stubbornly don't understand, because you either haven't played here long enough, or aren't aware of what BGs/Arenas were like before. Because right now, the ilvl brackets that were active for months up until recently are broken, so fresh level 80s are queueing into 6.3k GS PvP players. Now let's assume you support this with removing/'fixing' crossrealm: we remove crossrealm and PvP is split up into the 2k-4k, 4k-5.5k, 5.5k+ brackets that should be active right now, which would fragment the PvP scene even more without crossrealm, because without this bracketing, people would just be gearbashing. Even now, queueing with 5-6 good geared players on Lorda into crossrealm can be significant enough to significantly alter some BGs; if you're assuming that 5.5k are going to do nothing but premades all day, you're just wrong. Running a premade without crossrealm would be even more of a gear/coordination-bash than it is right now. So what will end up happening is some players will get sick of being farmed BG after BG after BG after BG after BG after BG after BG and will just stop queueing. Because there's not another 12k realm to pull players from, BG queues with slow significantly, if not outright stop, and this is ONLY talking about EU peak times. Let's forget NA ever getting queues faster than an hour, if any BGs at all. They had to recently put a Wintergrasp change in recently to have the side that's losing consecutively to gain a stack of Tenacity every time they lose that carries over the next WG, simply because Alliance held WG all day long on Euro times.

And none of this is even taking arena into consideration, which would be impacted even more. All of the problem above but even worse because it's the competitive PvP. How do you have a competitive PvP with so few players? It would instantly devolve into a couple teams bashing every others, where 1.9k teams are being queued against fresh teams. Of course, this is only talking about 2s, because 3s would never pop. And god forbid you try to get people in your guild to make a team and queue so you can have fun: that's wintrading!

Crossrealm can stay, but it has to be better.

I agree, they need to fix the ilvl brackets THAT NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT FOR SOME REASON. Alternatively, you could start a petition to nerf PvE (and/or give ICC buff) even more since everything is progressed and nothing is challenging anymore, so why pretend that it is. Lordareon's initial philosophy is so far away, a role that is fulfilled way better by Frostmourne which will force players to progress buffed content with minimum gear, as there's only 3 months in between each raid tier.

[sukacakers]

Yeah arena is real competitive atm...

[Susanna]

Maybe you can make some race other than human which can have one trinket as medallion from honor and you can get the other trinket from honor or WG marks. Also, you can make a class that don't require that many of PvE off parts like Frost mage, desto lock, hybrid dk, etc. All these class do pretty good without PvE off parts. It's just getting to adapt and change accordingly, rather than seeking for easy solutions to make cross-realm optional. Warmane has done a fantastic job on corss-realm and GS bracket system, just because of Lordaeron players who don't contribute enough to this sever Warmane's hard work shouldn't go to waste by making it optional that will affect the other wotlk realms as well.

You didn't reply to my question. Do you actually play on Lordaeron or are you another one of those Icecrowners who come here to say "crossrealm is fine, don't change anything"?

I find it peculiar that you're suggesting that players should stick to a few "hybrids" (as you call them) to be able to compete in crossrealm at all. So basically you're admitting yourself that the situation is so bad that a player from this server can't perform well at an average unless they stick to these few selections you outlined...
Thanks for making my point for me!

[Shambler]

pro-crossrealm summed:
"Me and my 6 friends (the majority of Lordaeron players) really enjoy crossrealm with our fully geared characters and our specificly built specs. If you feel like crossrealm is too challanging maybe you should just get better skills than those guys from Icecrown and Blackrock who do bg/arena non-stop, because obviously they have none, and some skills are enough to beat overgeared players."

[Stepkid]

You didn't reply to my question. Do you actually play on Lordaeron or are you another one of those Icecrowners who come here to say "crossrealm is fine, don't change anything"?

I find it peculiar that you're suggesting that players should stick to a few "hybrids" (as you call them) to be able to compete in crossrealm at all. So basically you're admitting yourself that the situation is so bad that a player from this server can't perform well at an average unless they stick to these few selections you outlined...
Thanks for making my point for me!

I'm an Icecrown player and I l enjoy playing cross-realm.

Well, you Lordaeron players mostly join bgs and arena with 0 resilence, so whatever class you play you are going to face problems. The situation is not bad at all as you make it to seem. You are just trying to frame false image about cross-realm here. Play whatever class you like, but don't stick around here posting to make cross-realm optional if you are just bad at PvP. You yourself accepted that whatever class a player from Lordaeron plays they can't outperform since they are bad at PvP. It's pretty much like you mentioned making my point clear that Lordaeron players have to improve in PvP
Thanks for proving my point!

[Greedman45]

The thing is lordaeron was fine before crossrealm. We got instaqueue arena, instaqueue bg as horde. Allies had longer queues but its their problem running ****** human mode, let them pay for their choices. This helped regulate the faction population as well. Then crossrealm came and i stoped playing pvp on lordearon, moved to icecrown, gotten full bis almost in 1/5 of the time and got bored of smournes all day so quit that too.. Lordaeron pvp was fun, relevant and competitive. Now its a ****show.

[Susanna]

I'm an Icecrown player and I l enjoy playing cross-realm.

bla bla bla...

I'm sorry to break it to you but your opinion stopped mattering the moment this became clear. If you don't play here then your input is of little interest or relevance.

People who play PvP or have played PvP here are the ones with relevant opinions in this topic.