No one wants looks at the numbers, everyone wants to prevent "reinventing the wheel" but then does it themselves, and everyone wants to debate current proven builds using proof of how people are doing in-game at this moment.
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Member
Nothing
Edited: May 16, 2020
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Wind of Northrend
I still dont understand why people go for Unbridled Wrath.
Especially at "LoD build" since for that, u for sure dont need that 1 extra rage point to make a difference.
Execute talent skip is also a question mark if you ask me (but I guess you Cleave the **** out of everything so u can proc Enrage), but the most annoying thing is a warrior without Rampage. That **** is just beyond greedy and I see you skipping it in every damn build. Imagine a raid full of warriors/ferals that just skip that talent cos "someone else will pick it". What if only 1 player goes for the talent and he dies?
Draenei is also somewhat hard to get sometimes, and even if you cap at 5% from gear and still get it, it wont go to complete waste. I am not sure if you should suggest greed that minor haste/crit loss. (the alternate glove enchant needs to be fixed also)
For macroes u can still use Shadowmourne in main hand if u want to go def stance, cos of Titans Grip. And I would not suggest weapon changing when going to def stance, rather than using Shield Wall or Shield Block, in case you want to Intervene someone close to your target in case Intercept is on CD.
When it comes to rotation, Rend is simply put not worth it.
You lose Strength from Imp Bers Stance talent, and you lose rage. Rends overall DMG is low, especially at BiS gear, in comparison to other things you can gain/lose. If u have free 2 GCDs and nothing else to do, simply refresh duration on any Shout or Sunder Armor, since you can get lucky when they reach critical times and lose a Slam proc over that.
As for gear, I wouldnt say that Shadowvault beats TOGC cloak on AoE, since there is not enough or long AoE for Haste to shine that much.
Umbrage provides a lot more overall Stats and better gem choice over Toskks, which cant be said for Shadowvaults.
P.S. That 2% parry still can save you sometimes, Rend wont. :D
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Member
Unbridled Wrath, the most useless talent for a warrior (unless we can find a way to make using high speed weapons or daggers viable... oh wait, fury warriors would generate a ton more rage with fast weapons, so yeah... Unbridled Wrath 1000% useless).
Maxed Improved Cleave is almost funny to me... let me explain why:
- We need to waste a major glyph slot for it to make it hit a 3rd target
- Even as a rage dump, Heroic Strike is more effective since it can proc Bloodsurge.
- If someone tries to make the "what about AoE dmg" argument, as fury, warriors can only hit 4 targets with Whirlwind and 3 with a glyphed Cleave, because of that, competing with any other class on AoE dmg, makes the fury warrior "the toddler in a dick measuring contest".
- Instead of trying to pad the DPS meters with cleaves, we could replace the Glyph of Cleaving with Glyph of Execution and gain a real DPS increase while also avoiding making ourselves rage starved in the bellow 20% phase of any fight in the process.
Specking for Enrage is also pointless... in any fight were we take consistent dmg for the enrage to proc and become viable, we'll almost always gonna be forced to use Enraged Regeneration in order to help our healers... guess what, that ability consumes an enrage effect and prevents any other enrage effect from triggering for all its duration.
Maxing Booming Voice makes our shouts last longer, saving us rage.
Getting Improved Berserker Rage, can allow us to tie Bloodrage and Berserker Rage together in a macro that can be spammed before any fight or to be used in empty GCDs allowing us to shout without sacrificing rage and even avoid an accidental rage starve situation.
Maxing Commanding Presence makes our BS give as much AP as an improved GBoM and our CS give a little over 2800 HP (Look at us... we can actually be supportive in raids!)
Making all the changes I mentioned above, will make stance dancing for rend, not necessary, besides it being pointless DPS wise, allowing us to max Iron Will and take Deflection to 4/5, so now, that 2% parry is 100% more likely to save us!
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Member
Over the course of an LoD fight, you generate roughly 300 extra rage. It's literally free rage.I still dont understand why people go for Unbridled Wrath.
Especially at "LoD build" since for that, u for sure dont need that 1 extra rage point to make a difference.
Literally no one goes for improved execute.Execute talent skip is also a question mark if you ask me
It's a mandatory talent for ferals. The only circumstance a feral would skip it is if they don't want mangle because another feral is in the raid with it already, which in itself is dumb because another warrior will do more DPS than another feral. Very unlikely for the feral to die as well unless your raid is slacking, which won't let you play fury "at it's best."but the most annoying thing is a warrior without Rampage. That **** is just beyond greedy and I see you skipping it in every damn build. Imagine a raid full of warriors/ferals that just skip that talent cos "someone else will pick it". What if only 1 player goes for the talent and he dies?
Just go draenei yourself then. It's really not hard to get a draenei in your group.Draenei is also somewhat hard to get sometimes, and even if you cap at 5% from gear and still get it, it wont go to complete waste. I am not sure if you should suggest greed that minor haste/crit loss. (the alternate glove enchant needs to be fixed also)
You could, I simply copy pasted from my PvP talents. For any mini tanking that you do it's not gonna matter too much.For macroes u can still use Shadowmourne in main hand if u want to go def stance, cos of Titans Grip. And I would not suggest weapon changing when going to def stance, rather than using Shield Wall or Shield Block, in case you want to Intervene someone close to your target in case Intercept is on CD.
Also weapon swapping and stance swapping can be used on the same GCD, so you're not wasting any time if you need to intervene someone, as well as putting you in a position to shield wall + shield block in an emergency if needed.
Rend absolutely is worth it. If you time it properly, you will use 1 auto in Battle Stance and Rend's damage will outdo the bonus damage from Berserker Stance. There's a reason I wrote "When there's literally nothing else to do." Refreshing Sunder and Shouts when they don't need to is literally wasting GCDs.When it comes to rotation, Rend is simply put not worth it.
You lose Strength from Imp Bers Stance talent, and you lose rage. Rends overall DMG is low, especially at BiS gear, in comparison to other things you can gain/lose. If u have free 2 GCDs and nothing else to do, simply refresh duration on any Shout or Sunder Armor, since you can get lucky when they reach critical times and lose a Slam proc over that.
Shadowvault vs. Vereesa LK fightAs for gear, I wouldnt say that Shadowvault beats TOGC cloak on AoE, since there is not enough or long AoE for Haste to shine that much.
Umbrage provides a lot more overall Stats and better gem choice over Toskks, which cant be said for Shadowvaults.
You're downplaying the haste too much. Both fights are under the exact same conditions and assuming there would only be 4 valk waves.
If you're at a point that you're relying on 2% parry not to die, just delete the game.P.S. That 2% parry still can save you sometimes, Rend wont. :D
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Member
As I said in my other post, free rage. Every minute it's a free heroic strike, nearly free Bloodthirst/Cleave. It's the best option at that point in the talents since you are never in a position to need 50% more shout range. There's a reason every top warrior runs Unbridled Wrath.Unbridled Wrath, the most useless talent for a warrior (unless we can find a way to make using high speed weapons or daggers viable... oh wait, fury warriors would generate a ton more rage with fast weapons, so yeah... Unbridled Wrath 1000% useless).
So let's steer the argument to the only fight that matters - LK. The more likely you are to gain aggro from a ghoul is a DPS increase due to Enrage procs. Also as I clearly outlined in the guide, the more targets you can inflict with Deep Wounds also has potential to be a DPS increase due to 2pc t10. So more damage on ghouls = more threat, more targets = more deep wounds = more Blood Drinker procs.Maxed Improved Cleave is almost funny to me... let me explain why:
- We need to waste a major glyph slot for it to make it hit a 3rd target
- Even as a rage dump, Heroic Strike is more effective since it can proc Bloodsurge.
- If someone tries to make the "what about AoE dmg" argument, as fury, warriors can only hit 4 targets with Whirlwind and 3 with a glyphed Cleave, because of that, competing with any other class on AoE dmg, makes the fury warrior "the toddler in a dick measuring contest".
- Instead of trying to pad the DPS meters with cleaves, we could replace the Glyph of Cleaving with Glyph of Execution and gain a real DPS increase while also avoiding making ourselves rage starved in the bellow 20% phase of any fight in the process.
If you want to make the argument you shouldn't cleave on valks, I'm sorry but you're simply wrong and should re-roll. There's no argument here.
But you're not padding with cleave, you're cleaving to make single-target DPS better as I stated above. The only fights in ICC where the Cleave talent isn't good is Gunship (who cares), DBS, Rotface, Fester, and depending on the raid, PP. Every other fight has instances where you would want the Cleave damage.
As for Glyph of Execute, pure single target I agree it would be better than Cleaving, but that list would be even shorter than what I linked above.
Get better healers? Learn how to manage when you take damage? If you're this bad then you have other things to improve on first. Any fight where you take that consistent of damage would be BQL and Sindy which you'll only use 1 Enraged Regen during anyway if you wanted to.Specking for Enrage is also pointless... in any fight were we take consistent dmg for the enrage to proc and become viable, we'll almost always gonna be forced to use Enraged Regeneration in order to help our healers... guess what, that ability consumes an enrage effect and prevents any other enrage effect from triggering for all its duration.
About booming voice, you're sacrificing more potential rage gain than commanding shout and demo shout cost. In the 4 minutes that you have to refresh Commanding, you want to sacrifice 72 rage from Unbridled Wrath, and you will be generating 9 rage in the 30 seconds that Demo shout takes to fall off. If you're taking Booming Voice to save 1 rage, it's a bad choice.Maxing Booming Voice makes our shouts last longer, saving us rage.
Getting Improved Berserker Rage, can allow us to tie Bloodrage and Berserker Rage together in a macro that can be spammed before any fight or to be used in empty GCDs allowing us to shout without sacrificing rage and even avoid an accidental rage starve situation.
Fair, but why have a 6 minute imp GBOM when you can have the paladin who's already doing it and should have the talent... give you imp GBOM?Maxing Commanding Presence makes our BS give as much AP as an improved GBoM and our CS give a little over 2800 HP (Look at us... we can actually be supportive in raids!)
Fair point on the Commanding Shout though, but you'd have to sacrifice 120% bonus damage to cleave and 4% extra damage from Enrage to max out Commanding Presence so you can give the tank 500 hp.
Rend isn't pointless. Again, all top warriors are using it, so there MUST be a reason, right?Making all the changes I mentioned above, will make stance dancing for rend, not necessary, besides it being pointless DPS wise, allowing us to max Iron Will and take Deflection to 4/5, so now, that 2% parry is 100% more likely to save us!
Maxing Iron Will is also pointless since there isn't a single fight in ICC where you get stunned or charmed. Closest thing is Vile Gas, which is a disorient.
Like I had said to Gnimo, if that parry talent is saving you from dying, your raid has other problems. And the ONLY place the parry talent will help is on trash, which who cares about trash.
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Wind of Northrend
:popcorn: :popcorn:
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Forum Veteran
It would be smart to build for whole ICC, looking at total time spent in raid.
Question, why this does not work:
cast recklesness
cast deathwish
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Member
It's obvious that you're to attached to your play style and you've never thought about what I said:
- Making the modifications I suggested allows you to tie Heroic Strike thru macros to Bloodthirst and Whirlwind making you effectively spam it without the need for an extra key, guaranteeing almost constant 2 Bloodsurge procs because of 4p/t10 and since you're at 8,72% hit, your offhand swings will miss often, denying that extra 1 rage generation that is not guaranteed as the description of Unbridled Wrath clearly states.
- You are crit capped, that will make your Heroic Strike swings cost 5 rage, not 15 and allow you to spread Deep Wounds on up to 3 additional targets with your Whirlwind not just on up to 2 with cleave, (notice I didn't even mention the Shadowmourne proc) also since you'll now have constant Bloodsurge procs, you're gonna "pray" for them to not proc or make a conscious decision to ignore them in order to apply Sunders, renew shouts and so on.
- On Valks, you're gonna have enough time to cleave once or twice before they fly far enough away from each other to not be able to reach more than 1 of them, spending 20 rage on each and if you're unlucky enough to have your offhand miss on 2 cleaves in a row, you're gonna find yourself rage staved, with your "300 extra rage during an LK fight"... Ohh wait I need to go re-roll real fast...
- I hope that you'll try the modifications I suggested in order to see why the extra rage generated by Unbridled Wrath is useless
- if there are enough paladins in the raid for GBoM to not be problem I can assure you that the tanks will appreciate the extra HP, be it even a measly 500 and if there aren't, everyone is gonna be happy to have a 6 min BS if that means they can all have Sanc /Kings or both also.
- All top warriors useD (emphasis on the D) rend, because they used to have empty GCDs and rending was a viable option in the past, before 4p/T10, now that's not the case anymore... some of them, realized, experimented and changed.
- Iron Will is not maxed for ICC alone, most of us do other things on our toons besides ICC.
- The parry is not meant to save you, and its not a sign of weak healers, it's there because we want to try and help our healers when we get hit by adds that we'll unmistakably aggro with Whirlwind and most of all, it's there to facilitate reaching Deep Wounds.
P.S. Are you aware of the fact that the AP provided by your Strength will scale with Kings while the flat AP provided by your gear does not?
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Member
They share GCDs and can't both be cast at the same time because of it, you'll want to try a "castsequence" macro and I'm not 100% sure, but even then you might need to hit it once, wait for the GCD and hit it again to get them both active.
I for one use:
#showtooltip
/cast Death Wish
/cast Blood Fury(Racial)
&
#showtooltip
/cast Recklessness
/use Potion of Speed
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Wind of Northrend
Talking about Best in Slot geared Fury Warriors rage generation on a dummy without any buffs:
Critical white hit > 60 rage points
Normal white hit > 30 rage points
Glancing white hit > 25 rage points
How does 1 rage point make a difference, is beyond me to be honest. Especially since in ICC those numbers are more like: 100/70/50 due to Buffs.
If that 1 rage point really mattered that much, you would have specced into Anger Management as well.
Glyph of Cleaving is a MUST. As for 3/3 Improved talents, it can be skipped I guess, but there is no other better DPS increase talent for AoE needs.
Before you say you dont need to hit 3rd target let me just say:
3 spikes on Marrow, 3 adds on each side on Lady, 3 Valks on Lich King...
And yes, that 1 extra damage hit matters a lot, especially on a fight like Lich King 25m heroic without the 30% dmg increase buff. If you want to base your logic on, "but we have a buff, dmg is not needed, so the glyph is useless", u go into a same ****** train where not speccing into Rampage is a "DPS increase".
When it comes to Rampage, there is simply no other talent that will increase your dps by a number that is worth not getting that talent, cos you know, that feral can die, or play badly and be out of range for the aura to reach everyone. You can also be one and only Warrior in a 10m group that is there to provide that buff for everyone on top of good DPS.
There is not a single Talent point that will make you do more dmg on 99.9% of the fights if you skip Rampage.
When it comes to Rend, please go on a target dummy, do your "rend rotation" and link here how much % of overall DMG that Rend did.
Even 1 time when you think that u have 2 free GCDs and u get a wild Slam! proc from Heroic Strike, and u miss it or delay it cos of Rend, you will lose more dmg than you will gain for overall full fight of rend usage. Or if you dump your rage and get couple of misses and end up delaying BT/WW...
I think you get the idea. Risk simply isnt worth it.
As for Execute talent, you are right, I got caught way too much into Classic WOW where that talent is bread and butter, you should NOT spec into Imp Execute, my bad.
https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#LG0...0eRVkAo:oMGzoV
Sure, you can put 2 talent points from Enrage into Commanding Presence, but overall those are the only 2 options that can be altered.
https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#LG0...0eRVkAo:oMGzoV
Or, you can go for a little bit more supportive build for your Tanks, if they dont have it covered.
P.S. Battle Shout will never replace Imp GBoM, and that extra health wont save the tank or anyone in the raid more than Imp Demo Shout will.
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Member
Except when you want to delay Whirlwind, you'd need a 3rd bind anyway. Playing with 1 button rotation macros inevitably ends up with the same or more keybinds when you want to tryhard. You are overgemming for hit if you are at 8.72% as well.It's obvious that you're to attached to your play style and you've never thought about what I said:
- Making the modifications I suggested allows you to tie Heroic Strike thru macros to Bloodthirst and Whirlwind making you effectively spam it without the need for an extra key, guaranteeing almost constant 2 Bloodsurge procs because of 4p/t10 and since you're at 8,72% hit, your offhand swings will miss often, denying that extra 1 rage generation that is not guaranteed as the description of Unbridled Wrath clearly states.
Your heroic strike rage cost has nothing to do with spreading Deep Wounds on more targets. You will be whirlwind'ing regardless of whether you use cleave or heroic strike. You clearly did not read because I stated you will be using Cleave for deep wound procs, as well as pulling aggro on adds such as LK ghouls to proc Enrage.- You are crit capped, that will make your Heroic Strike swings cost 5 rage, not 15 and allow you to spread Deep Wounds on up to 3 additional targets with your Whirlwind not just on up to 2 with cleave, (notice I didn't even mention the Shadowmourne proc) also since you'll now have constant Bloodsurge procs, you're gonna "pray" for them to not proc or make a conscious decision to ignore them in order to apply Sunders, renew shouts and so on.
No you do not. If you find this is the case in your raids, no one is either slowing or stunning the valks, or you have god awful positioning.- On Valks, you're gonna have enough time to cleave once or twice before they fly far enough away from each other to not be able to reach more than 1 of them, spending 20 rage on each and if you're unlucky enough to have your offhand miss on 2 cleaves in a row, you're gonna find yourself rage staved, with your "300 extra rage during an LK fight"... Ohh wait I need to go re-roll real fast...
It simply isn't. There's a reason why EVERY top warrior isn't running Commanding Presence. Here's a list.- I hope that you'll try the modifications I suggested in order to see why the extra rage generated by Unbridled Wrath is useless
- if there are enough paladins in the raid for GBoM to not be problem I can assure you that the tanks will appreciate the extra HP, be it even a measly 500 and if there aren't, everyone is gonna be happy to have a 6 min BS if that means they can all have Sanc /Kings or both also.
Spoiler:Show
Pulled every warrior from Invisus (rank 1 LK/PP), and Afterlight (only guild I know currently doing 0 buff.) as well as a few from other guilds.
As for the extra HP, yeah it is nice, but you're sacrificing too much to gain it.
If there are enough paladins? If they can only have Sanc / Kings? Are you not running with at least 1 ret, 1 holy pally? Prot paladin utility alone makes it a top tier tank, but ONLY having Sanc / Kings means you didn't build a good raid comp.
Refer to my list of warriors above. The majority of them are specced into Rend, and all of them are BiS or near BiS.- All top warriors useD (emphasis on the D) rend, because they used to have empty GCDs and rending was a viable option in the past, before 4p/T10, now that's not the case anymore... some of them, realized, experimented and changed.
There are no stuns in RS25 HC, I am not 100% on abilities used in TOGC but the only stun I can think of this talent might help on is a rogue stun.- Iron Will is not maxed for ICC alone, most of us do other things on our toons besides ICC.
If you are building a talent spec for some other boss not in those 3 raids, then you didn't read the 2nd paragraph in the opening of the guide.
What adds are you pulling? The only add you should be trying to pull is LK ghouls and maybe a Living Ember on RS25HC, but you WANT to be hit by them, at least long enough to get an Enrage proc. If you do get aggro and happen to parry a ghoul because you specced into Parry, you are cucking your own dps.- The parry is not meant to save you, and its not a sign of weak healers, it's there because we want to try and help our healers when we get hit by adds that we'll unmistakably aggro with Whirlwind and most of all, it's there to facilitate reaching Deep Wounds.
Yes, I am able to read tooltips.P.S. Are you aware of the fact that the AP provided by your Strength will scale with Kings while the flat AP provided by your gear does not?Edited: May 15, 2020
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Member
No one seriously theorycrafting in the past, present, or future will ever take you seriously with target dummy tests. Simulation software was developed specifically to get more sample points without spending hours and days on a target dummy.Talking about Best in Slot geared Fury Warriors rage generation on a dummy without any buffs:
You spec 2/5 Unbridled to get to your t3 talents, and take 3/5 to get to t4. Booming Voice is useless since you're never far enough away to not hit the tank with Commanding Shout.If that 1 rage point really mattered that much, you would have specced into Anger Management as well.
I tend to agree. The only fights worth not taking the glyph/talent are so braindead easy that you shouldn't be speccing specifically for them anyway.Glyph of Cleaving is a MUST. As for 3/3 Improved talents, it can be skipped I guess, but there is no other better DPS increase talent for AoE needs.
Before you say you dont need to hit 3rd target let me just say:
3 spikes on Marrow, 3 adds on each side on Lady, 3 Valks on Lich King...
And yes, that 1 extra damage hit matters a lot, especially on a fight like Lich King 25m heroic without the 30% dmg increase buff. If you want to base your logic on, "but we have a buff, dmg is not needed, so the glyph is useless", u go into a same ****** train where not speccing into Rampage is a "DPS increase".
If the feral is playing badly and dying and for whatever reason is uncapable of being brez'd, he's not playing to the best of their ability which won't let you play to yours.When it comes to Rampage, there is simply no other talent that will increase your dps by a number that is worth not getting that talent, cos you know, that feral can die, or play badly and be out of range for the aura to reach everyone. You can also be one and only Warrior in a 10m group that is there to provide that buff for everyone on top of good DPS.
There is not a single Talent point that will make you do more dmg on 99.9% of the fights if you skip Rampage.
I did state though that you will have to re-spec for things such as 10 mans where you might not be able to have a feral druid.
At the end of the day, you're brought to raids as a Warrior for pure damage, not to bring a buff. Are you able to bring some? Yeah, Commanding Shout, Demo Shout, and Sunders, but it's not worth speccing Commanding Presence if your guild/raid is doing end-game content repeatedly.
Edit: Something sounded right in my head when I typed it but I read it back and wasn't how I intended it to be perceived.Edited: May 15, 2020
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Wind of Northrend
The dummy thing was there to show how big of a rage spike is with each melee hit (since i was not able to hop in ICC and hit a boss untill i get 1 Crit 1 Normal and 1 Glancing hit so i can see how much rage i get, it pains me to have to paint this picture for you to understand), meaning, 1 extra rage point on a small % chance to even happen, wont ever make a difference. Recount or any addon you use can say u gained 1 milion rage points from that talent, it wont matter cos its not used rage at all, or needed. UW is simply a garbage talent, especially for a Best in Slot Fury Warrior with Shadowmourne and Gloren.
I also forgot to say that 1% hit from Draenei also has a small radius, and players again tend to die.
Both this and, I simply cant say it enough times, skipping Rampage has no DPS increase on any of the fights in the whole expansion.
If a raid doesnt bring a Feral druid, or a good Fury warrior that actually has Rampage, the whole raid is ****ed. And yes, I was in a raid where we had to make 1 of the 2 dumb Fury warriors HS, respec just so we can have Rampage. Dont be that warrior.
If there are few Draeneis in the grp, and you dont get one, you are ****ed. But, if you do have 8% hit without it, that 1% hit extra will only help, since you are not hit capped on white swings anyway.
This argument feels like DPS whoring for 0.01% dmg increase. I get that Warmane DPS meta is to whore wherever you can (Cleave BPC even tho that DMG doesnt mean ****), but you can chose to be smarter than that.
Do not skip Rampage, its NOT a smart thing to do, it WONT increase your dps since there are no other talents that you wont get regardless (and no, 1 extra point in Enrage wont ever make a difference).
At the end of the day, Booming Voice increases the duration of any Shout that is needed, making you focus more on other **** that can actually increase your DPS overall.
P.S. If 3 Warriors constantly cleave the Ghouls, and they die faster than they can make Enrage proc, you end up losing DPS and push the LK latter into transition cos you dont get Slam! procs from Cleave, but you do get them from Heroic Strike, which can kill a tank (or offtank can have a hard time getting any for the plague). Dont be that ZugZugCleave guy and use your head.
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Member
Per the rage per swing, you may not have had it proc on those instances and yes, 1 rage with a single auto attack isn't going to affect anything. It's about how much you're building up throughout an encounter that matters, not 30 seconds on a dummy, and that's why no one respects it.
Again, if your raid is that incompetent that draenei's are dying left and right, become a draenei warrior.
You're not reading anything I am saying regarding Rampage and are refusing to acknowledge that this is meant for end-game.
If you do a Whirlwind on BPC and it doesn't get a crit on the target you are not currently attacking, Cleaving has a higher chance of getting a Deep Wound tick on that target so it can start its duration rather than waiting the 8 seconds for your Whirlwind to come back, which again, you are ignoring.
Booming Voice increases the duration yes, but any fight longer than the 4 minutes it is active has downtime and plenty of moments to refresh it. Only exception could possibly be RS 25 HC, refresh right before you go into portal for p2 and if you get Gods' RNG and never get Soul Consumption it should be running out right as you kill the boss.
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Member
I made a mistake and hit 7 before 2, I meant to say 8.27% and that's the only thing I'll answer to because you're clearly way to convinced about your way and being right, that I can tell you read what I said and never fully processed it and if you can't be bothered to do that, you can't be expected to try what I suggested at all, never mind taking it to such an extent that will allow you to get used to it and understand it.
Sorry, you might be a "windmill" by I sure as hell am no "Don Quixote"!
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