This argumentation is imo just wrong. Answering 1 after 1:
If someone want to nail their genitals to wooden desk for fun, doing it in his home, why should You care? You don't have to understan everyone in this world, just let them live they way they like. If they are obeying rules in public places (obeying warmane rules, cause ganking is allowed), I don't see anything wrong here.
Playing WOW warmane means you WANT to fight other players as well. Otherwise, why would You choose a PvP servers in game called World of WARcraft? As a moba I can see a small point, but what about FPS? Playing deathmatch? Where the only reason is to destroy opposite team. There will be ppl wiping You every round and there is nothing You can do about it, depsite improving Your skill.
About third statement, I didnt said gankers are bored of game. They may be bored of just an part of it, farming herbs, while lovs to play pvp/pve. The other thing is, people that claims they are being ganked cries on forum everyday, how many times did You saw an post on forum that gankers cries about lowbies that are changing zones/logging out instead of running around being its pray and that this is unfair? If we have 2 groups of people, 1st actually playing actual game, 2nd just crying about its current state on forum, we can clearly see which one actually like to play WoW.
Sorry, but I just don't see a single valid argument toward Your statement. Its just more and more opinions, focused on YOUR person. Try to think about both sides and see real pros/cons here.
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1. Yes, the example is not good because destroying your body won't harm anybody else, unlike ganking. I just couldn't find example from real life that harm others, is legal and is completely mysterious to me because I don't see reasoning behind it. But I think everybody gets the point. Or I can think of something and edit the post if that makes you happy.
2. Playing FPS is different because all people involved have the same conditions and only skill matters. In WoW lvl 30 player doesn't have the same conditions as lvl 80. There is no way to fight back or possibly' kill the 80. In FPS you can at least fight and if you are lucky, you can score some kills. It's not about getting destroyed but about chance to fight back. I don't know how to explain this further.
And you really think that all people who are on Warmane want PVP? Not even 20% of people play PVP including arenas and BGs. And only fraction of them is interested in world PVP which is the only difference between PVE and PVP server. People are joining Warmane because there is no competition in terms of population and maintaining. If there were PVE server on Warmane, most people would be there.
3. Gankers are not crying on forum because they enjoy ganking and there are always some lowbies to farm. On the other hand lowbies cry on forum because they don't enjoy being ganked and moving to another zone doesn't always help because there are another gankers, not to mention that some zones like e.g. Hellfire Peninsula and Borean Tundra have no substitutes. If you don't see the difference then this discussion is hopeless.
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You are trying to turn this game into something it is not. You are not suppose to stand a chance against someone who vastly outlevel or outgear you. I only play WotLK because I know with the right setup (class, gear, talent, etc.), I can have a huge advantage over most players.
Making life hard for the opposite faction is completely acceptable and is part of the game. I don't know how else to put this, but I think if you get bothered by such "injustice" so easily, you are playing the wrong game.Edited: June 4, 2020
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Forum Veteran
1. Seems like you implying that every player didn't sign up for that of their own free will.
2. It's not supposed to be fair, actually it's unfair by design.
There are ways to level up by never leaving green zones and never get ganked ever. Seems like players who get ganked move on and get smarter, one of the thousand comes and cries a bit on forum and then people who never got ganked themselves and are smart enough to avoid it type huge blankets about how bad it is and how it should or should not be llegal. Pretty funny. It's like whole bunch of dudes whom it doesn't concern from any point argue about that how that one dude per week got it real bad by getting killed few times and waiting 2min to res gave them PTSD.
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Thank You, short & clear. This guy wants entire rules (and core of the WoW in fact) to be changed, cause he don't like it... How self-concentrated You gotta be to just see Your own point? Warmane IS PVP SERVER. Ganking is part of PVP, it doesnt matter if You like it or not - its a fact. If it would bother people as much as You told, they would play other game/server. 12k pops on 2-3 realms with queues shows that not many people giving a single **** about it.
Enjoy
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Are you serious? It's not changing core rules, it's just PVE server instead of PVP. And yes, I would prefer it, just like 90% of all the players. But I have joined this discussion not because of complaining or some proposals, but I just wanted to find out why are people ganking lowbies because out of all "non-honorable" things like scamming, ninja-looting, auction sniping etc. this is the only one that gives nothing in return.
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The problem is, even on anti-gank post, there are near 1:1 people that are for and opposite ganking. And this server IS PVP, its fact. From where are You taking this number? 20% of ppl play PVP, 90% of ppl would enjoy pve server - how did You get them? Isnt it just Your personal opinion that You are trying to make as playerbase wide wisdom? These numbers means nothing and don't show actual state and will of players, cause simply - they were just made up in Your head. Its hard to even take it as an argument, cause its based on... nothing.
People are doing many many many stupid things in game and irl, not because it gives something in return but simply, just cause they enjoy it.Edited: June 4, 2020
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Majority voted for the mercenary system in PVP(IIRC it was well over 60%), and yet on every thread complaining about it majority wants it scrapped.
You can't use small sample sizes like forum threads to draw a conclusion.
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You are looking at this as a moral issue and unless you get off your high horse, you will never be able to understand the mentality of some gankers.
Aside from a few areas or zones that can be captured by either faction (Wintergrasp, etc.), the open world of this game is more or less static. In such an environment, the players get to define the terms of victory. This can range from complete dominance, denying enemy objectives, to being a nuisance. Can pleasure be derived from causing the opposite faction pain and grief? Absolutely, and that is all that is needed to keep many going.
But why, you ask? Why would anyone hurt another human being, even in a game? The backdrop of this game is war, and I am behaving as I would in an all out war where the line between combatant and noncombatants is blurred. Horde outnumbers Alliance and has more multiboxers. Protracted conflict will likely result in Alliance being outgunned. The solution is simple, as you eluded to earlier: hit targets of opportunity fast and hard, stay on the move and never linger long enough for reinforcements to arrive.
For some, this is a calculated move designed to inflict the maximum amount of pain to players of the opposite faction with minimal risk, effort, and cost.
But still you ask, how can anyone be so "evil"? This is why I brought up Jonathan Haidt's Moral Foundation Theory. It wasn't clear to me when I posted it, but now I believe people who have a stronger sense of ingroup loyalty and respect for authority may take the backdrop of faction warfare in WoW further than those who care more about fairness and equal treatment of everyone. If you have no idea what I am talking about, check out his TED Talk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SOQduoLgRw).Edited: June 4, 2020
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Those numbers are based on retail and I don't see a reason why it should be different on Warmane. Player base here is big enough to avoid bigger statistical deviation. And it was always like that, that's why Blizzard ditched PVP servers completely and made all servers PVE with war mode you can turn on/off. If you think 50% of people are interested in world PVP, you are delusional.
Finally good answer, thanks. It took only 3 pages...
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as someone who is here for 10 years, i saw alot like ALOT such threads, nothing will change, get used to it, and yes feed me please, I do corpse camp/gank daily.
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Those numbers are based on retail - show me evidence.
Even if these number are real, here is why IT CAN differ on warmane:
1) Retail had paid subscription. Back in wotlk days not every kid could afforad it, for sure retail community was older and it could matter
2) Playerbase on single realm is even higher on warmane. 12k ppl / realm is more than any realm on retail could take back in old days. This matters too.
3) Icecrown is NOT progressive. When server is progressing, people are focused on PvE more, but we have same patch for years. People are already farming LoD 7 times a week. Of course more people get bored in pve and doing pvp now.
4) Its 2020, not 2010. You can't put Blizzard as good example. Just because they're doing an changes (like war modes), doesnt mean these changes are good. Their decisions are very controversional nowadays and they are implementing new ideas to the game, just to take them out in the next expansion.
5) My 50% can be as accurate as Your 20%, cause simply, I just made it up based on small probe of ppl that are wrtiting posts on forum. So lets take it it doesnt matters, just like Your numbers.
You could just think about it for 3 minutes and get few examples, why things on Warmane can (and for sure they do) differ from Retail, which had wotlk near 10 years ago.
Yes, I know it. I made up this number just to conflict it with numbers written by SirFabler, which were based on personal experience and may not have anything connected with real state.
To avoid more spam, here is post by Mashallah from Ask the Staff sub:
"Just wanted to know if the admins plan to do something against the hordes of lvl 80ers who run around in lvl 20-50 zones and kill low lvl players for no reason or benefit at all.
for example make players only able to attack others if they have maximum 5 level difference.
would really make the lvl phase alot nicer for prettymuch everyone i think. "
And here is answer by Borrean (1 day ago):
"Greetings,
There are no plans for this as it is an intended part of the game. I presume we all went through that torture. :D "
See you in Bgs, arenas, faction cities - and ofc borrean tundra from time to time :>Edited: June 5, 2020
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I am Redridgeboss, professional ganker. I gank because I’m a big troll. I do it to read the psychoanalysis the whiners come up with about me on the forums.
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On a personal level, I default to leaving players of the opposite faction alone, or at times even help them if they're having trouble against a mob.
On the other hand, I also understand why people would gank others (the corpse camping type).
In short: yes, it is probably a type of ingame bullying (i.e. 'by demeaning others, the abuser feels empowered'), BUT it is one that is very much limited and where the 'victim' can easily opt out of - either by outsmarting the ganker or more patient methods such as logging off for 15 minutes.
As far as the game goes, it does play into the faction fantasy by creating enmity and wariness whenever you see someone of the opposing faction, which is an immersion benefit I really appreciate (as a more roleplay-ish type of person). It also makes those rare moments when those people actually help you much, much sweeter.
But I agree that it can be rather disruptive on certain zones, such as Stranglethorn Valley and Tanaris (or occasionally something like Duskwood incursions) - of course, experienced players can just steer clear of these, but new players may not have the knowledge required (e.g. with many leveling guides often including STV in their list and whatnot). That said, this is also a very limited problem in scope, and relatively minor if anything imho
Thinking these doesn't mean that my perception on lowbie gankers is that great (as I said, bullies), but the system of WPVP itself has solid arguments going for it (especially with the lack of Honor gained from killing lowbies), and its benefits to overall immersion and faction fantasy is something I personally consider to be worth it at the end of the day.Edited: June 8, 2020
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every time i lvl up new char (and there are many), some opposite lvl80 kills me. Then i just log my 80lvl warr, both on Icecrown and Lorda realm, fly to Hellfire kill every quest giver in their base, elite adds and around 50 lowbies. Also i capture towers to maximum so they have to wait like 30min to recapture it. etc etc.
Many times they whispered me from same faction to ask me why am i doing that. I just told them that THEY DREW FIRST BLOOD. Once they cry out for help from some pvp guild i just log off and continue my lvling. It's a game, everyone is trying to knock you out, but you will stand for yourself as same as irl. Victory or death!
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