Shadowmourne is NOT the ONLY reason why "BIS" Blood DK will out damage a bis Frost DK.
Short fight and big 3min CD like Hysteria will. Give Hysteria to a Frost DK, or make a 35% hp or less phase of the boss fight last a bit longer, see what happens...
While we are at it, I would LOVE to see your version of "BIS" Blood DK that u find so good.
Oh, let me try asking again, even tho you lack 10% Attack Power buff inside Shadow Realm on Halion 25m hc, why did I mainly see a FROST DK inside, doing awesome damage (if he actually knew how to keep rotation while running in circles), rather than a BLOOD DK (I rarely, actually almost never saw one, if I was not the one trying it out)?
"Every DK tank has Improved Icy Talons so Frost is not providing anything to the raid..."
"Basically if you are Frost DPS, just respec to Blood or Unholy, you will do the world a favor."
So much for not saying Frost DK is useless. :D
Also, I really don't remember every raid I was in having a Blood DK tank with Improved Icy Talons as a main/off tank.
Who do you call if you don't have a Blood DK tank? A Blood DK DPS?
I just hate seeing Blood being lifted as a "good" DPS spec, where THE ONLY WAY you make it compete or "viable" with other builds is to add SHADOWMOURNE in the weapon slot and hope fight wont last more than 2.5min.
You don't have Shadowmourne? Your BEST DPS spec is: "FROST". The End.
I also LOVE to see an occasional Blood DK DPS players with around 5.5k gear score in VoA 25m doing less than 5.5k dps fully buffed.
Next time before barking how Frost is BAD and Blood is BETTER, maybe back it up with some actual in game proof. :)
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Wind of Northrend
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Member
It's the same with fury warriors... unless they're BiS they will suckass on single target
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Forum Veteran
Farm LOD a bit, do few 0% and then come here, tell us how amazing blood dps is.
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Member
Hysteria is a ability in bloods talent tree, its a part of blood. If you want to spam the tank with "give hysteria to me please the rogue doesn't deserve it" go for it, but blood can take hysteria from the tank as well at start which means he can save his hysteria when the CD on DRW resets having hysteria for every 1.5 minutes. So please stop using the argument "if only frost had hysteria" it's a useless argument and doesn't bring anything to the table.
As I said before I don't care about 0% neither should you, I guess it's a fun thing to challenge yourself and your guild but other than that it's useless and doesn't even give you an achievement. And why do 0% when you can do 30% and finish the raid faster?
No a Blood DK is not only good with Shadowmourne here is a Screenshoot of me before I got Shadowmourne with only 6.2k gs using Cryptmaker HC 10. November 2019 https://imgur.com/a/tir7tM0 (only rdps would dps beasts in this guild that why I didn't do dmg on beasts, they all were around the same gs but ignore them since they weren't really skilled and it was normal so they never really had a chance in short fights) 16k dps for 6.2 is nothing special but it's not bad either. Even at this gs I never meet a Frost DK that was able to outdmg me but to be fair skilled Frost DKs are rare in my 4 years+ of playing Blood I only met 1 skilled Frost DK that had 100gs more than me but did mostly the same or less dmg than me only on bql did he manage to get me in dps since he got first bite.
I don't know where it came from that if blood moves it does Bad dmg in shadow phase I can move without a problem and without messing up my rotation and if you follow your Runes while fighting you can always recover from breaking your rotation when you are skilled with Blood that is.
Don't be harsh on those 5.5 BDKs in VoA, they are new players and they don't know that blood is not doing good DPS without 90% arp. Whenever someone asks me "Wow your dmg is amazing I thought Blood dps was horrible. Should I respec to Blood" I always tell them please don't, if you really like the spec or want to use Shadowmourn with arp wait before you are full bis then switch (if they are playing Frost). If an unholy DK asks me that I will say don't it isn't worth it getting so much **** from everyone even though you are in the top and everyone sees you at the top. And it's the same thing with Fury warriors their DPS won't be noticeable until they are around 6k+.
And for that I will continue disrespecting Frost as long people continue disrespecting Blood.
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Forum Veteran
(it's not about DPS)
Fact that Blood DPS is "spare" class makes you think people are "disrespecting blood".. wow. Raid composition is king and "DPS" is not enough to be viable, even if it would be highest[it's lowest] of all DK specs.
Blood is lowest DPS of all 3 DK specs, you can post screens all day long. Post a screen where you have done some 5+ chains of ice on beasts, taunted off rangeds few, had some idk 3%? dmg on them. At this point it's like signature of "amazing blood dps" people - post DBS screen with 0 on adds, dude, I'd be ashamed to post such a screen, no matter excuses.
Play what you like, play blood dps, it's great. If your guild is ok with that. I just feel for that fury warrior who is alone, he stacks sunders, piericng howl and stuff while you post screens of how amazing your dps is, it's like a comedy sketch of an oblivious person.
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Member
Wow I don't do sunders or piercing howl? Well guess what neither does Frost. But dude Frost give 20% haste (cries in rage). No he doesn't, everyone will always prefer bringing a DK tank with 20% haste and bringing another fury warrior instead of a Frost Dps.
No it's not the fact the it's a spare class that makes me annoyed. It's the comments about it that makes me annoyed like "change to frost on unholy you will see a dps increase 100%" and that is not even true in some occasions Blood will be top in other frost will or unholy will.
And as I said in that guild only Rdps damages Beasts, it's not an excuse I can easily do 3% on them by timing pestilence and Dpsing the adds.
In other words said how does it feel Frost not bringing anything to the table except Dps just like Blood Dps when the raid has a DK tank?
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Wind of Northrend
R O F L
Iceclown, intensify!
With you, I can finally understand why Lord players make fun of us. :(
You do realise that if you REMOVE the Ruby Sanctum gear, and REMOVE Shadowmourne, with Lich King weapons still added to every class, that Frost DK DPS will Top the DPS charts? I guess you don't know that because all you know is to spam 1 button: "Heart Strike". :D
Maybe if u try and learn how to play as a Frost DK, instead of arguing how 16k DPS as 6.2k GS Blood DK is good, u also might break your own "record" as Blood, who knows. :D
On my Horde DK, http://armory.warmane.com/character/...ecrown/summary, which was 6.3k gs at the time, I was being the Hard Carry of this chill casual balkan guild on DBS (used this boss mainly because they struggled with it due to lack of good dps), and for sure my dps was never below 18k.
So much for playing with "skilled" Frost DKs in your runs. :D
Also, Blood requires 0 skill.
You legit have too much resources that you can make 3 mistakes, one every 10sec, and be able to recover from them rather instantly.
On top of that, there are no mistakes to be made lol, the only thing you can do is lose diseases and reapply them rather instantly because the main ability you spam uses 1 Blood/Death Rune, and the ability that is not done in case of a mistake where you need to reapply diseases (Death Strike), is just a filler that enables you to spam more Heart Strikes. Unlike Frost/Unholy where if you lose diseases you have to sacrifice the ability that deals most damage done out of them all.
Let me ask ONE simple question, since facts and arguments are not enough...
If you have a BEAR main tank and a PALADIN off tank, who will you bring for the 20% Melee Haste Aura?
Let me make ONE simple suggestion...
You can go record your rotation on a dummy and post it on youtube, I will do mine as well, and we see how much skill it requires?
Oh while we are at it, I still don't see what is the "BIS" list you consider "THE BEST" for Blood DK DPS, because there are A LOT of funny builds for this spec out there, you can add that as well, here or in the video. :D
Nice paint skills btw, they usually wont help.
Edit: https://imgur.com/a/RooaY
Found an old 0% buff picture in my guide by accident.
Who knew a Frost DK could be 2nd on LoD. Guess if I was Blood, I would be 1st. :D
Edit again: http://armory.warmane.com/character/...ecrown/summary
Is this "BIS" enough for a Blood DK DPS to you?
I don't want to deal with "this is not bis" after I do the testing. :DEdited: August 27, 2020
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Member
"You do realise that if you REMOVE the Ruby Sanctum gear etc..." as I said BiS, not half bis, not icc bis, I said BiS.
Why should you take a bear mt when you can bring a dk mt? He has better single target aggro, cds for soul reaper and can give Hysteria to a physical dps.
"Nice paint skills btw" tnx I just made it to make people mad.
Yes that spec and build are BiS I personally use the Dark Death Build since I'm used to it. Sure why not, how long are we going to dps the dummy?
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Member
Bear is better sponge, and also has defensive for every soul-reaper (slightly weaker ones than dk, but its tougher overall because higher base EHP). From healer perspective healing bear is safer, it takes slightly more dmg, but much more steadily dk hp tends to drop unpredictably low when he is unlucky. Bear also provides bleed dmg increase (better than hysteria with 2+ fury wars in raid) and AoE attack-power reduction (this can be provided by fury, but ussually weaker).
Which one to take comes down to raid composition TBH. You ideally either want to have bear + 2 dk dps (unholy and frost) or improved icy talons talented dk tank + feral and unholy dps.
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Wind of Northrend
After couple of in game testing with PlatinHunterr, I can say that "Best in Slot" Blood DK DPS with Shadowmourne will do same (maybe 5% less damage) on a average 3 minutes long fight like Deathbringer Saurfang, Rotface, Festergut, aka a single fight that has a decent 35% or less HP phase.
I am working on a Blood DK (small youtube) guide for all the pure Blood DK lovers such as PlatinHunterr is, since there is almost no information on it online.
I wanted to post it last night but after couple of Dummy runs, my 5 minute video I had plans to put on youtube was a bit flawed, so I will re record and post one in which I will preview everything.
The main down side and what I dont like about Blood is RNG on Critical Strikes, at least on a dummy.
The burst can be from 10 - 13k DPS, depending on Crit RNG,
but the constant DPS after 3-5min seems to be around 8.5-8.8k if you are not really unlucky with Crit RNG.
Overall I would still put it as the weakest out of all 3 specs, but it is NOT by all means useless when talking about Best in Slot Shadowmourne gear.
When it comes to Early game with 0% Armor Penetration gear and a Bad 2 handed weapon, you REALLY DO NOT want to go Blood, and as always,
your best option will always be: Frost DW, if you want to do the most amount of damage with the gear you have.
Unholy is also there for the unique Ebon Plaguebringer debuff it can spread on many targets with 1 button. :D
Real life is really kicking hard but the Blood DK guide will be updated in a new forum post during the next week, might happen before that, but I wont promise anything.
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Forum Veteran
No one can compare you Gnimo, you're probably most knowledgeable about DK then anyone else.
The thing is though, All 3 of DK's talent trees are infact viable, UH and Frost brings more to the table in terms on raid buffs / debuffs, but DPS wise the 3 speccs are not that far apart (at bis gear, Blood is indeed terrible up until that) unlike every single other class in game, minmaxing aside, if you have the buffs provided, play whatever you like most, The game is after all meant to be played for fun.
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Member
On Blackrock, i did 7.7k dps with blood on target dummy, 5.6gs (only could reach 5-6k with UH spec, with same gear).
gemmed only strength. armor pen on blackrock starter gear is close to nothing. i never played blood before, but i did UH. if you want to check it out, it litteraly takes only 5min. I liked what i saw so now im rolling a Blood pve DK :)
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Wind of Northrend
@Disktrasa
Well the argument did escalate a bit too much to be honest, what I was mainly trying to make as a point is that Blood should not be played early game because it will render your damage output and in some lowbie guilds damage is an issue (unlike in BIS icecrown citadel raids), and that there is no chance that BIS Frost DK is as bad as people make it to be, due to bad players playing the spec.
But u are right about one thing, at BIS meta once u have all the heroic items, u can play whichever spec you want to, as long as you find a way not to be a burden on the raid. :D
And I am just a guy who tests in game whatever people tell is good or bad and deliver my judgement, its not hard, u just have to be objective. xD
As for the comment from our Blackrock player, Unholy DK has abysmal damage output on a dummy.
At BIS you do 8k after 3-5min on a dummy, and in raids its a completely different story.
Dummy can be useful if you know how to use it, but otherwise, looking at the raw dps as it is and basing stuff on that is a bad idea...
As we tested both dual Blood and Blood vs Frost, we didnt just DPS the dummy, we got almost all buffs and debuffs a raid can provide on the dummy and than started a race, but even that is not a good factor because you dont have a dummy below 35% for example, or some other thing u could forget and not take in to account.
As it stands for early game it will always be: Frost > Unholy > Blood.
At the end game (Best in Slot +Shadowmourne gear), they are all on almost equal footing when it comes to Single Target DPS (+/- 5-10% damage done), so play whichever you like the most I guess. :D
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Member
I'm glad our comments back and forth ended on a positive note, I just wanted to prove that blood isn't a useless spec like people say it is. The only reason I said frost is useless is because they do around the same damage in some occasions blood will win and in other frost depending on the boss fight and the time of the boss fight (when both are at BiS that is), and sometimes you will have a DK tank with Improved Icy talons which means that frost won't give any buffs like blood doesn't, sorry I shouldn't have said that, honestly I just said that to make people mad who call blood useless since the spec is really dear to me and it hurts to see so many negative comments about it most of which aren't true.
It was fun testing the pros and cons of blood and how it compares to frost with you Gnimo, thank you for your time and effort!
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Forum Veteran
Great, tough all the big "negativity" comes from somewhere - and it's been said 20 times in this topic - raid build. Not every raid gets full kit, especially on 30% buff BiS setting and clears full raid anyway, but people tend to prefer to get as much of it as possible and blood brings nothing and doesn't excel in any useful niche. You are competing with warriors for that slot and inviting blood actually puts a drain on the raid - it does lower dps than [another]fury and fury does lower dps because of Blood. It's like - "we go 24? Nah lets invite that Blood dude lol".
So the fact is that playing Blood dps will put you at disadvantage to get the raid spot, but I guess Blood dps kit is being misunderstood underdog proving how amazing it is, but those damn plebs wont take you to raid even though you did almost kind of same dps as Frost. We know, everyone knows. Blood will do his slice of damage pie. It's not about DPS.
Let's not blow some smoke for players reading this and actually thinking "I should go Blood because it's great". Stick to other two specs and you will get invited.
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