Thinking giving pvp racial to everyone will make pvp balanced lmao
Human use 2xdps trinket + pvp racial (than is useless in pve compared to horde racial usefull in both)
horde use 1x dps trinket 1x pvp trinket + pve racial
Its not perfectly balanced but dont pretend that horde racials are useless in pvp
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Banned
Edited: August 22, 2020
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Forum Veteran
Wdym? If everybody have the exact same racials, it removes the benefits of playing a certain race over another. And don't pretend human PvPers would drop their EMFH for something from Horde side, as I don't pretend Hordes would change their PvE racials for Alliance ones, though 1% hit is nice.
Yes, human "trinket" isn't great in PvE, but we are not talking about PvE now are we? We are talking about the PvP situation has become over the years being stuck on 3.3.5 and what it means in terms of PvP balance (Looking at you, RS25HC loot table). Amount of Shadowmournes around the realm also affects the PvP balance, as there's over abundance of them.
Horde racials aren't useless in PvP, but they are far away from 284 trinket, even if you count it in as racial + PvP trinket -combo.
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Member
What about how others see you and can tell what your racials are? They see an bood elf, but he has human racials; next arena the belf has actual belf racials; new players might not even know that this is a thing. That can get confusing really easily. If you gave EMFH to everyone, what about humans? They dont have a racial now. Wouldn't it be a better solution if you just used some morph program? Afaik they aren't bannable
All my characters are human and I barely PVP. Just roll human bro, they're the coolest :)
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Member
There are a number of addons for arena that can show the opponents' races. If this change was implemented, I'm sure they could ensure the race displayed is the racial ability (rather than appearance) that an individual has. So an undead with war stomp would come up as a tauren. Also, if you barely pvp, why do you have a problem with this? I swear, some kids are just afraid of change.
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Member
I would enjoy it if it affected PVE as I would keep playing human but now with PVE racials, I just don't see it happening because it either causes confusion or it forces Warmane to balance the game themselves (which I highly doubt they want to do). It also is such a pointless change, the top arena teams aren't even that heavily sided to the alliance.
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Member
What an odd statement. Currently on the blackrock/icecrown/Lord battlegroup, 20 of the 20 top 3v3 teams are alliance. Most people who focus on arena as a substantial portion of their warmane WOTLK experience on the blackrock/icecrown/Lord battlegroup choose to be alliance and EMFH plays a very important role in that decision.
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Member
Honestly, if my class can be human, it will be human for 100%. We can say what we want, but the statistics are simple - majority of 2/3s teams are aliance, most of them have human. Almost every endgame pvp player takes human, if he can.
In my opinion the question is not about if we should change this situation, but how can we change it. I totally agree that something here should be done, however I think as hard as I can and still can't figure out any solution. I don't think buffing pvp trinket will be enough. We may give players option to choose their racials regardless of race, but it will cause even more problems - for example, as orc, You can replace "+x % pet attack damage" to EMFH, in this case You are getting: EMFH, 2 pve trinkets and AP buff - orc racial. This will make war/pala even more bursty, and as far as I know, we don't want it. It could be bad for arena stage as well, cause You would never know what racial Your opponent have and imo it will make arena fights a little bit more random.
It seems like the only way not to **** up entire balance is to work on EMFH itself - but I don't know if it can be implied. If we could nerf/change it, every race would need to have 1 pve + 1 pvp trinket (medalion) and it looks quite justly for me.
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Forum Veteran
Been Horde on Icecrown for 10 years, I just recently 3 month's ago swapped all my toons to Alliance and the gameplay difference is ****ing huge, not so much to the EMFH but the way everyone (mostly) knows what to do, Horde BG's are crawling with noobs and people who just dont give a ****, not even trying.
My experience with PvP on Alliance side exceeded my expectations, the difference is uncanny.
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Member
I'm not surprised. When a new arrival here asks what to play and where, the answers are quite simple:
Lordaeron for "challenge mode" PvE
Blackrock for instant PvP
Frostmourne for seasonal (heavily leans on PvE)
Icecrown, Alliance for PvP, Horde for PvE.
What happens when the threads are seen by hundreds, who want to know the same thing? Icecrown's Alliance gets filled with PvP'ers*, and Icecrown's Horde side gets filled with PvE'ers. So there's going to be huge difference what comes to PvP experience.
- Alliance goes for more serious PvP in general, because you were told to go Alliance, if you want to PvP, also roll a human if you're able, for added benefit.
- Horde goes for more serious PvE in general, because you were told to go Horde, if you want PvE. What PvP you end up doing, isn't going to be that interesting or competitive for you. And when it do, you start thinking of faction change.
* applies to blackrock as well.
Even without looking at PvP class guides, I can safely bet on every single guide recommends going for human, if possible.
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Member
lmao this dawg again with usual bs. at first you wanted custom 3.3.5b now you need emfh for everyone. for sure, gimme emfh and i would introduce your useless mage *** to hunter/feral with double pve trinkets. what a ****ing joke
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Member
Then you're just not contemplating a large enough buff to the PvP trinket. At some point, the amount of resilience on a buffed PvP trinket would make it worth it to have a PvP trinket + PvE trinket instead of two PvE trinkets. Once that resilience threshold is met, you will see approximately half of arms warriors (using your example) continue to use two PvE trinkets, and approximately half using a PvP + PvE trinkets. That threshold may require a very large buff (perhaps several hundred resilience - whatever that threshold is, it is not an insurmountable problem. The average is arms warrior is currently running with 900-1,000 or so resil. With the buff, they may be running 1400ish resil. I would argue that burst will decline, rather than decrease, unless a player chooses to not use the PvP trinket.
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Member
Skilled PvPers on icecrown who can be human flock to alliance for the EMFH racial. Skilled PvPers on icecrown who cannot be human flock to alliance to play with other skilled PvPers. While the forums may guide ppl to icecrown alliance for PvP, the forums are not the root of the problem, EMFH in conjunction with an relatively weak PvP trinket is the problem.
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Forum Veteran
So buff the pvp trinket to counter 1 class and watch every other class struggle as hell in arenas to kill healers with even more resilience?
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Member
huh? We're talking about EMFH - a racial ability, not a class ability. My original post called for giving *every* class EMFH and buffing the PvP trinket. Currently, a player has the option to wear full PvE gear in arena - he will do considerable more damage than if he wore solely PvP gear. The game will seem more bursty to him (both in terms of damage taken and dealt). On a less extreme scale, with a *dramatic* buff to the PvP trinket, a player will have an actual choice to run two PvE trinkets or a PvE trinket + a PvP trinket. Currently, most players, and especially top tier arena players, don't view this as an actual choice given how weak the stats are on the PvP trinket compared to BiS PvE trinkets.
Some say that a class like hunters or shaman will receive an unfair buff as their damage will be even burstier. This of course conveniently ignores the other half of the argument that the PvP trinket receive a substantial buff in resilience. If you're worried about burst in arena, you'll equip a dramatically buffed PvP trinket.
At some point the PvP trinket can be buffed enough to actually make it desirable for a large percentage of arena players (let's say, roughly half). That should be the end goal when buffing that trinket.
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Member
In my opinion, you have a bad idea of such a "balance". To force people to use pvp trinq need nerf human racial - namely, to make sure that only stuns are removed
It also won't affect other races \ classes + popularizes other races in the alliance
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