racials independent of Races - human racial for all - ilvl 284 pvp trinkets

[Dancer1999]

Let's play devil's advocate here for a moment, just to show you how ridiculous the human racial truly is:
How about we make WotF (undead racial) exactly like EMFH? Same/same. Is that alright with y'all?

Couple lines of code is about all it would take.

Because that would ALMOST re-balance pvp on Warmane

Six classes can be undead. One shy of the seven that can be human. Give EMFH abilities to Will, and I'll let it go. Alliance would still have an advantage (horde pallies wouldn't get the racial).

No, you say? Grumble grumble..."surely that would 'break' pvp on the server, blah blah blah...."

I can hear it already. Hypocrisy incoming. Just remember - whatever you say against this idea will be used against you later. Any excuse why this shouldn't be is going to be used as a DIRECT rebuttal to your own arguments. You can't say 'not Blizzlike", because MM is clearly NOT Blizzlike. Donating is not Blizzlike. Lots of things on this server are not Blizzlike. You can't say it would give Horde an advantage. Alliance would still have more toons with the racial, and the double heroic PVE trinkets that are actually at the root of all this problem. You can't make the case for some classes getting out of balance. The six classes Horde would get EMFH on are six of the exact seven classes that alliance gets.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. How 'bout it?

Buffing the pvp trinket with a little resilience looking a bit more reasonable now?
Thought so.

[Dancer1999]

Changing EMFH will complete faction balance on the server, we will have OUTLAND 2.0 where Warmane will have to literally bribe with custom bonuses to make people play Alliance. And BTW this is what happen to Retail , Horde today complete dominate both PVP and PVE in term of numbers.

So...I take it from your prose that you don't approve of having one faction with a distinct unfair advantage? In retail, the imbalance is wrecking the game, right? You seem to think it's bad for the gaming experience, bad for the game itself, and bad for the community/server as well. Am I right?

Ok. Unless I'm wrong about what I just asked you...then why not here too?
If unbalance is bad, why is it wrong to balance it?

Again, NUMEROUS ways that this has been suggested. Pick one. I don't give a **** which one.
I would REALLY like to know how many ppl have quit doing pvp, vs the number that still do. 5 to 1? 10 to 1? 20 to 1?
I think Warmane is sitting on a gold mine, if they would just see it the right way. An unbalanced game is unhealthy. A balanced game is a game more ppl want to play. They would have more players, spending more money. They just refuse to see it.

[Skoobydoo]

So...I take it from your prose that you don't approve of having one faction with a distinct unfair advantage? In retail, the imbalance is wrecking the game, right? You seem to think it's bad for the gaming experience, bad for the game itself, and bad for the community/server as well. Am I right?

Ok. Unless I'm wrong about what I just asked you...then why not here too?
If unbalance is bad, why is it wrong to balance it? .

You are mixing faction balance with balance overall. Server is already kinda balance in term of faction ratio, its around 53:47 for Horde and making any changes that will lead to Alliance been less atractive faction will only incrase Horde numbers. You only look at high arena PVP, which was always been incradible small portion of population, and ignore all other aspects of the game. Also in MMORPG there will never be class/race balance, this is just a illusion people project. You will always have class/racial that perform better overall then others, this have been true since WOW exist and its still true today.

Retail works very differently today, realm dont matter besides mythic raiding. When you walk around you constantly see people from other realms, ore and herbs and so on are personal loot, you can turn off wpvp, there is no mob tagging anymore and so on and on. Faction disbalance is not wrecking the game because there is 100 other systems that counter it. Non of this exist in WRATH. If you have 70/30 ratio as alliance you are ****ed, you have hard time finding groups raids, less stuff on AH and usually more expansive, you can forget about farming spots and so on.

I would REALLY like to know how many ppl have quit doing pvp, vs the number that still do. 5 to 1? 10 to 1? 20 to 1?
I think Warmane is sitting on a gold mine, if they would just see it the right way. An unbalanced game is unhealthy. A balanced game is a game more ppl want to play. They would have more players, spending more money. They just refuse to see it.

Warmane exist for 10 years already and PvP scene today just as active or even more active as back in the days. People quit for many reason and new people come, thats how MMORPG works. That idea of people quiting because Human is too strong dont seem to be based in reality.

Also Warmane already have statistics about pvp activities. Dont you think that the fact they refuse to even concider racial changes is very telling that PVP decline is not happening as you think?

[Dancer1999]

You are mixing faction balance with balance overall. Server is already kinda balance in term of faction ratio, its around 53:47 for Horde and making any changes that will lead to Alliance been less atractive faction will only incrase Horde numbers. You only look at high arena PVP, which was always been incradible small portion of population, and ignore all other aspects of the game. Also in MMORPG there will never be class/race balance, this is just a illusion people project. You will always have class/racial that perform better overall then others, this have been true since WOW exist and its still true today.

Retail works very differently today, realm dont matter besides mythic raiding. When you walk around you constantly see people from other realms, ore and herbs and so on are personal loot, you can turn off wpvp, there is no mob tagging anymore and so on and on. Faction disbalance is not wrecking the game because there is 100 other systems that counter it. Non of this exist in WRATH. If you have 70/30 ratio as alliance you are ****ed, you have hard time finding groups raids, less stuff on AH and usually more expansive, you can forget about farming spots and so on.



Warmane exist for 10 years already and PvP scene today just as active or even more active as back in the days. People quit for many reason and new people come, thats how MMORPG works. That idea of people quiting because Human is too strong dont seem to be based in reality.

Also Warmane already have statistics about pvp activities. Dont you think that the fact they refuse to even concider racial changes is very telling that PVP decline is not happening as you think?

I'm not talking about overall population balance between factions. I'm talking about pvp. All pvp. Arenas, world pvp, WG, bgs, whatever. I'm talking about the imbalance between pvp player population, overall gear imbalance, what has become an over all huge disparity in the talent pool on each side. For every BiS geared player that knows (really knows) their class, and is active, the ratio of Alli to Horde, I'm willing to bet it's 5:1 at least. Likely closer to 10:1. Look at the rosters of the top pvp guilds on each side. Alli has at least a dozen big, talented pvp guilds, and each one has 3-7 pages of members. Horde has maybe 3 solid pvp guilds, and each of them has one or maybe two pages of members. And even those best horde players are still at a disadvantage due to the racial. There's absolutely nothing that makes sense about keeping this. So the result is an enormous pool of geared and talented players on one side, and a handful on the other side. The very fact that there was a Q problem in the first place illustrates my point completely. It's just that Warmane chose to 'solve' the problem in exactly the opposite way in which they did.

[Skoobydoo]

I'm not talking about overall population balance between factions. I'm talking about pvp. All pvp. Arenas, world pvp, WG, bgs, whatever. I'm talking about the imbalance between pvp player population, overall gear imbalance, what has become an over all huge disparity in the talent pool on each side. For every BiS geared player that knows (really knows) their class, and is active, the ratio of Alli to Horde, I'm willing to bet it's 5:1 at least. Likely closer to 10:1. Look at the rosters of the top pvp guilds on each side. Alli has at least a dozen big, talented pvp guilds, and each one has 3-7 pages of members. Horde has maybe 3 solid pvp guilds, and each of them has one or maybe two pages of members. And even those best horde players are still at a disadvantage due to the racial. There's absolutely nothing that makes sense about keeping this. So the result is an enormous pool of geared and talented players on one side, and a handful on the other side. The very fact that there was a Q problem in the first place illustrates my point completely. It's just that Warmane chose to 'solve' the problem in exactly the opposite way in which they did.

You are still missing the point. EMFH is the main if not only reason people roll alliance, change that and server ratio will get complete ****ed. Whatever problems PVP unbalance may cause, i promise you they are minisculare compare to the overall problems server will have if they ****ed up overall faction balance. And again this servers have existed for over 10 years now, PvP unbalance is not as big of a deal as you think.

People keep talking about balancing the PVP, Blizzard try that for years and the result was the game becomes boring and the community hate it. They try to fix gear balance by addins stats templates, they try adding PVP scaling and it always make PVP feel unenjoyable and boring. In Shadowlands they finally go back to what PVP was before like in WOTLK/Cata and they seems to give up trying to balance it and its ****ing awesome. There is zero balance, everyone are deleting people left and right and people ****ing love it. **** balance when it comes to PVP.

[Dancer1999]

You are still missing the point. EMFH is the main if not only reason people roll alliance, change that and server ratio will get complete ****ed. Whatever problems PVP unbalance may cause, i promise you they are minisculare compare to the overall problems server will have if they ****ed up overall faction balance. And again this servers have existed for over 10 years now, PvP unbalance is not as big of a deal as you think.

People keep talking about balancing the PVP, Blizzard try that for years and the result was the game becomes boring and the community hate it. They try to fix gear balance by addins stats templates, they try adding PVP scaling and it always make PVP feel unenjoyable and boring. In Shadowlands they finally go back to what PVP was before like in WOTLK/Cata and they seems to give up trying to balance it and its ****ing awesome. There is zero balance, everyone are deleting people left and right and people ****ing love it. **** balance when it comes to PVP.

YOU are the problem. You openly admit that pvp is ****ed, and then you boast about how ppl love it.
So why have two factions? Delete Horde. Just alli v alli from now on. That's a solution that follows your thinking.

[Skoobydoo]

YOU are the problem. You openly admit that pvp is ****ed, and then you boast about how ppl love it.
So why have two factions? Delete Horde. Just alli v alli from now on. That's a solution that follows your thinking.

Because there is more to the game then BGs/Arena.

[Dancer1999]

Because there is more to the game then BGs/Arena.

So just a huge **** You to anyone who wants to play pvp, huh? Great attitude.

I don't understand how you think actually balancing pvp (which you have implicitly agreed is ****ed) would tragically shift the overall faction pop balance? Does alliance have ZERO redeeming features, other than a horrifically broken pvp racial? That's the only reason any of you humans are over there?

Please. Construct a cogent argument. And may I refer you to the MM thread in the pvp forum, where the actual MODERATOR has admitted that 75% of pvpers on this server are alli. You're sitting their wringing your hands over what *might* happen to the server balance, all the while smiling and ignoring the broken pvp scene. Half the game is pvp. Wow. I can't believe ppl actually try this BS.

[Skoobydoo]

So just a huge **** You to anyone who wants to play pvp, huh? Great attitude.

I don't understand how you think actually balancing pvp (which you have implicitly agreed is ****ed) would tragically shift the overall faction pop balance? Does alliance have ZERO redeeming features, other than a horrifically broken pvp racial? That's the only reason any of you humans are over there?

Please. Construct a cogent argument. And may I refer you to the MM thread in the pvp forum, where the actual MODERATOR has admitted that 75% of pvpers on this server are alli. You're sitting their wringing your hands over what *might* happen to the server balance, all the while smiling and ignoring the broken pvp scene. Half the game is pvp. Wow. I can't believe ppl actually try this BS.

Last time i am responding because this is getting really boring and we are looping.

Faction unbalance in PVP existed for over 10 years on this server and PVP have been doing just fine all this time. The idea of having most compatitive players in one faction is a huge problem and its killing the PVP on the server exist only in your head. And lastly you asking for major reworks that will effect all aspects of the game just so you maybe have more horde representation in top teams on the ladder, it will not happen. Also the concern about overall faction disbalance if EMFH is nerfed is not something that just "might" happen. Its what we have obversed happening on every TBC server where EMFH didnt exist, including Warmane own TBC realm and what happen on retail as well.

[Dancer1999]

Last time i am responding because this is getting really boring and we are looping.

Faction unbalance in PVP existed for over 10 years on this server and PVP have been doing just fine all this time. The idea of having most compatitive players in one faction is a huge problem and its killing the PVP on the server exist only in your head. And lastly you asking for major reworks that will effect all aspects of the game just so you maybe have more horde representation in top teams on the ladder, it will not happen. Also the concern about overall faction disbalance if EMFH is nerfed is not something that just "might" happen. Its what we have obversed happening on every TBC server where EMFH didnt exist, including Warmane own TBC realm and what happen on retail as well.

A) Just because something has "existed for over 10 years" does not give a single shred of legitimacy. This is lazy thinking on your part. I can name a hundred things that ppl used to defend by using that non-excuse. Slavery just for starts. "This is the way we've always done it" is for those who lack reason.
B) I won't even address your second point, due to it's incredible false premise. C'mon. I know you're more intelligent than this. Lazy.
C) Remember, you're arguing to KEEP something that is inherently broken. Inherently unfair.

[Keymouse8800]

Well, finally. Now if you could only lock and delete this topic, because it was neither constructive nor very friendly topic.

[Mercy]

A) Just because something has "existed for over 10 years" does not give a single shred of legitimacy. This is lazy thinking on your part. I can name a hundred things that ppl used to defend by using that non-excuse. Slavery just for starts. "This is the way we've always done it" is for those who lack reason.

It is a valid point though. People are used to it. It's part of how this version of the game played. Changing something with these sorts of attributes is something that should be considered very carefully because of the weight behind it.

B) I won't even address your second point, due to it's incredible false premise. C'mon. I know you're more intelligent than this. Lazy.

Insulting someone's intelligence isn't conducive or productive to any discussion. You should know better.

C) Remember, you're arguing to KEEP something that is inherently broken. Inherently unfair.

It's not "broken". Unfair, that could be argued, but that's a matter of perspective. The only place where the racial makes any difference in any competitive portion of the game is in arena, and arena isn't exclusively Horde vs Alliance. The thing about people wanting to play WotLK is that they want to play WotLK. That includes its faults as well. If you change those, then you change what WotLK is at its core. I could imagine changes being made on an alternative realm of some sort, but on the main-attraction realms that advertise themselves as "WotLK", absolutely not.

[Plaeva]

Well im mad because my balance druid does not have troll racial, what now ?

[mier]

Well im mad because my balance druid does not have troll racial, what now ?

Reroll human warrior and donate for double PvE trinket.
Then get the tmorph addon and morph your warrior into a Moonkin. It gonna look like you are playing boomkin but you'll be OP at the same time.
Problem solved.

[Rigwarl]

Let's play devil's advocate here for a moment

He should've flipped while he had the chance...