racials independent of Races - human racial for all - ilvl 284 pvp trinkets

[SabroanMLGxXx]

Oh look another entitled pleb who thinks that everything should be equal and balanced.

Everything has its benefits and drawback.
Roll human or roll orc or even belf, no one really cares. There is quiet a few players(not humans) who use double PVE trinket in arena.
Also with EMFHS you lose considerable amount of resilience. Orcs get Blood Fury and Axe spec, Belfs get Silence, Taurens get Stun, Undeads get weaker version of EMFHS. No one forces you to chose either of these classes, you can select human race and ***** how orc warriors are OP, or Belf ret pala with Silence are broken.

[tragikmagik]

The only place where the racial makes any difference in any competitive portion of the game is in arena, and arena isn't exclusively Horde vs Alliance. The thing about people wanting to play WotLK is that they want to play WotLK. That includes its faults as well. If you change those, then you change what WotLK is at its core.

I originally posted in this in the "Suggestions & Changes" section but somehow this thread was moved to "General Discussion". Why even have a "Suggestions & Changes" if you're not open to suggestions? You state that by changing the "faults", you "change what WotLK is at its core". Surely we can make SOME exceptions, and have. Actually, we do agree on that. Warmane implemented Mercenary mode, which never existed on WotLK retail. In fact, the very concept of either alliance or horde potentially fighting along side the opposite faction in a BG is certainly a change to the core. Mercenary mode is far more of a change than buffing the resilience of a pvp trinket. If permitting people to choose an ability currently tied to a race other than their own, while also providing everyone with EMFH, is far too extreme of a change (even though, like mercenary mode, it would improve the overall pvp experience), then I would hope that you can at least be open to the idea of simply buffing the pvp trinket by adding more resilience.

Let's not compare the experience on warmane to retail. The percentage of pvp'ers on warmane with two (or even one) BIS trinket compared to those at even the end of the season on on retail 3.3.5 is drastically different. You're not giving them that experience and let's not pretend otherwise. Minor changes can be made and people will still enjoy the server - I think most pvp'ers would enjoy it more. Buffing the amount of resilience on the pvp trinket is far less extreme of a change compared to other changes this server has made.

While arena players do tend to be the most concerned about min/max among pvpers and are the most competitive pvpers, the human racial certainly helps in BGs as well. And it is a factional issue, not just a race issue. As I've said previously in this thread, all of my level 80s that can be human are human, simply due to the racial. More so, all of my levels 80s that cannot be human are nonetheless alliance, simply because my pool of potential teammates can be human, assuming their class permits. On another note, I would hope this server is actually considering implementing rated BGs for 3.3.5 and isn't holding themselves back because mercenary mode, i mean rated BGs, wasn't part of 3.3.5.

[Obnoxious]

I originally posted in this in the "Suggestions & Changes" section but somehow this thread was moved to "General Discussion". Why even have a "Suggestions & Changes" if you're not open to suggestions?

It was moved by Palutena possibly because in that section it would either be deleted or locked, since this sort of thing has has been rejected before multiple times, therefore breaking that section's rules. Also, being open to suggestions doesn't mean we don't reserve ourselves the right to filter them and only accept those that are feasible, useful, fit the mechanics of the expansion, etc. It isn't, after all, a section to request or demand anything, but to suggest.

On Mercenary mode, while not existing on retail, it doesn't change mechanics. People queue the same way, play the same Battlegrounds, only joining the other team.

[Crazycatguy]

" This of course means that a large percentage of PvPers are alliance, and thus longer queue times for BGs"


- I am sorry, but as a comp pvp player, at least from my point of view BG's is not the place where I go to be competitive. Its just a killing field of people who agreed to let me gank them over and over. But imagine being horde, and having a race that allows you to have a pvp trinket, and then while doing dmg pop a racial that lets you do more dmg.

My friend, PvP is just a more advanced version of rock, paper, scissors!.... Stop throwing Rock, when you know your opponent will play paper!


What if, you bait out the Racial thats a trinket, and then cc them so they cant pop their double dps trinket...... Or.....Kite them out when they pop their double dps trinket..... OR.... CC AFTER they pop double trinket and then just laugh at their dumbass as you can hear the cry of pain coming from your speakers as you know they mad about that ****?

what if you try changing your PvP tactics to fit the fight, instead of trying to change the fight to fit you flawed tactics?


My friend, you simply just need to enjoy the game for what it is.....or role human and be uber l33t superior pvp class and turn on merc mode and still die with a bunch of 5k blackrock kids who have no f clue about their class!

[tragikmagik]

My friend, you simply just need to enjoy the game for what it is.....or role human and be uber l33t superior pvp class and turn on merc mode and still die with a bunch of 5k blackrock kids who have no f clue about their class!

"My friend", all of my level 80s that can be human are already human. Why would i re-roll human again? I think this is a bit over your head.

[atrocity23]

This thread is a joke trying to be taken seriously.

The only reason its still alive and not closed by a forum moderator is because its keeping the forums active.

Makes the forums look desperate for activity.

[Crazycatguy]

"My friend", all of my level 80s that can be human are already human. Why would i re-roll human again? I think this is a bit over your head.

Yup you showed me, my life is now complete....I now know that im a bit over my head....I got 99 problems but a humans passive aint one HIT ME!

[tragikmagik]

Yup you showed me, my life is now complete....I now know that im a bit over my head....I got 99 problems but a humans passive aint one HIT ME!

Your humor's almost as bad as your reading comprehension.

[shele]

There is no chance for change, because 2 trinkets are 2 trinkets, how all this ******ins will play with 1 pve trinket ?
Who will donate so much ?
Cant be Blizzlike because there is no "Blizzlike" population.

[shele]

Then also give everyone troll and orc racial becouse why not?

Keep crying about it, human is for pvp, whorde is for pve, deal with it.

Then you know **** about whole WoW thing.
Orc pve...

[aryanprince]

Horde sux.

[wireless3m]

Due to the prevalence of ilvl 284 and 277 PvE trinkets, many competitive PvPers have chosen to be human for Every Man For Himself (EMFH). This of course means that a large percentage of PvPers are alliance, and thus longer queue times for BGs. Warmane addressed this with Mercenary Mode, which I commend them for. However, that fix didn't address the root of the problem of an imbalance of PvPers being on alliance. The imbalance does not just extend to the quantity of PvPers, but also the quality. Generally, higher skill players flock to alliance, even if their class can't be human, because of EMFH (for those who can't be human, they know their pool of potential arena teammates can be human).

This can cause other issues too, including the availability, comparative to alliance, of potential teammates for arena or to BG premades. Further, many PvPers don't enjoy playing a human (from a cosmetic perspective). It also just feels so homogenous right now in arena with all of the humans - it would be great to see more dwarves, tauren, orcs, etc.

Faction disparity and cosmetic issues aside, a third issue arises when classes (DK, Warrior, etc.) are able to choose ilvl 284/277 trinkets while other classes (e.g. Druids) are restricted to one PvE trinket and a ilvl 264 Pvp trinket.

A fourth issue some have complained about is concerning the burst in arena. After all, if a competitive player's class can be human, the player often chooses human and uses two top tier PvE trinkets instead of using the PvP trinket. This of course leads to more burst.

I recommend a simple solution that addresses all four of these issues. While it of course was not available on retail 3.3.5 *GASP* - oh the humanity! pun intended - this server has demonstrated a willingness to deviate from retail 3.3.5 when it clearly benefits the PvP community (e.g. Mercenary Mode). Here it is:

(1) Separate Racials From Races - ever race may choose a racial (other than EMFH - and possibly remove improved stealth of druids and improved stealth detection of humans), so a dwarf can have Will of the Forsaken and a human can have Shadowmeld. Changing your race OR racial would each cost 30 vote points.

(2) Preferably eery class, or at very least every class that can concurrently choose human, receives EMFH.

(3) Either buff the ilvl 264 pvp trinket to ilvl 284 (to increase the resilience) or make a new ilvl 284 trinket available at, let's say, 1700 rating.

If the above changes are implemented, the following will result:

(1) Greater balance, both in terms of quantity of players and skill level of players, between alliance and horde.

(2) The boringness of homogeneity is addressed - we'll see more dwarf warriors, gnome mages, etc.

(3) Provides players with more of a choice - not just with respect to racials - but with respect to gear. Right now, at higher levels, a DK, mage, ret, etc. is almost certainly a human with two PvE trinkets. That bump in the resilience with an ilvl 284 PvE trinket may entice a player to use a PvP trinket. Even if *most* still choose to keep two PvE trinkets, it at least makes the option of using a PvP trinket a bit more viable.

TLDR: racials (other than EMFH) should be independent of race; preferably everyone, but at least every class that can be human, should get EMFH; a ilvl 284 resilience pvp trinket (like the current ilvl 264 but w/ more resilience) should be introduced

I think giving every race EMFH would be great and I'd love to not be stuck playing a human for a suprior racial. But the devs would have to balance the other racials or add another racial to humans to balance them with classes such as orcs with damage racials. I dont think this task would be easy but it also would not be impossible. The easiest fix would be to increase resil on trinkets, but it does not change the fact that many will still roll human for EMFH which is the root of the issue concerning population balance. I vote give everyone EMFH and create a new racial for humans to supplement the change. I know the devs are creative enough to accomplish this.

[dccct]

I think giving every race EMFH would be great and I'd love to not be stuck playing a human for a suprior racial. But the devs would have to balance the other racials or add another racial to humans to balance them with classes such as orcs with damage racials. I dont think this task would be easy but it also would not be impossible. The easiest fix would be to increase resil on trinkets, but it does not change the fact that many will still roll human for EMFH which is the root of the issue concerning population balance. I vote give everyone EMFH and create a new racial for humans to supplement the change. I know the devs are creative enough to accomplish this.

Changes that affect class balance are nonstarters for many of those who came here to play 3.3.5a. There is a difference between changes that improve players' quality of life and changes that affects game mechanics. I hope you can see the difference. If you want custom changes that affects balance, you should probably play on a different server.

[OhieMitzen]

I think giving every race EMFH would be great and I'd love to not be stuck playing a human for a suprior racial. But the devs would have to balance the other racials or add another racial to humans to balance them with classes such as orcs with damage racials. I dont think this task would be easy but it also would not be impossible. The easiest fix would be to increase resil on trinkets, but it does not change the fact that many will still roll human for EMFH which is the root of the issue concerning population balance. I vote give everyone EMFH and create a new racial for humans to supplement the change. I know the devs are creative enough to accomplish this.

Wouldn't need to balance anything. Here's how (I don't know if I already mentioned this here, but I cba going through 8 pages looking for my sexy avatar and lines next to it):

Most likely a website based feature to select racial features -pack that get's applied to chosen character. This means you won't get EMFH to your current race, and keeping your old ones, no no. You'd select a race for racials you'd wish to get, and in exchange remove your current ones. So if you're Orc, and want to get Human racials, you can get those, but Orc racials will be removed.

I think this is something that could be worked into the system. If I recall correctly, there was a website based dual talents for TBC. It would be something similar to that.

This way it should ease up the disparity what comes to PvP faction balance and queue times, and it would be nice to see alliance teams that aren't 90% humen, same goes to arena teams.

Issue would be you'd never know who comes with what racials, so I guess your appearance should match the racials for others (opposing faction). This could possibly be done, as we already have disable transmogrification toggle on website too.

Further more, those who're going to jump into "this is custom", let me remind you we already have BG brackets, mercenary mode, and transmogrification features already. Something to provide more balanced, fluid and enjoyable PvP experience shouldn't just be ignored/denied without giving it some thought.

[dccct]

Further more, those who're going to jump into "this is custom", let me remind you we already have BG brackets, mercenary mode, and transmogrification features already. Something to provide more balanced, fluid and enjoyable PvP experience shouldn't just be ignored/denied without giving it some thought.

None of those affects class balance. If custom racials allow a class to pick up a racial that was blocked by design (not due to faction, but due to race-class availability), then I would argue this would be a change in game mechanics and will affect class balance. Mercenary Mode has already addressed the issue with queue times. As far as race goes, if you feel it is unfair for others to play human, just reroll human so you can enjoy the same advantages. If you don't like playing human because they are ugly, just change your local client models.