1. The surprise is there for the player who gets banned, because if you can't / don't / wount respond to a simple question, but then take your time to making printscreens and writing a ticket about it there's something wrong wouldn't you say? no, you wouldn't and that's why I'm thankfull your not representing the staff.
    Silence is a response in a way, and it means "NO". Player has to give consent, as rule says "explicitly".
    Players follow the rule and have no problems. When they start to go into philosophy about how their OS is more important, they get a wake up call in a form of 5 days ban, some realize, some make huge dramas and even make a ban appeals, then staff shows mercy, remove their last day of a ban.

    Everything is fair, this is how to behave in random dungeons with random players. Only "loophole" would be if everyone says "yes" and then deceptively takes screens, leaving out proof their own consent - to get someone banned.

    I have seen probably hundreds of items getting disenchanted, item that I needed for OS. If someone wins greed roll, I just ask them to trade me the item, 99 of 100 times they do and are happy to do that(and that same player would probably report me if I NEED). They even ask "why you didnt just NEED?" - why? because I don't want to get 5 days ban, real simple. After the fact when everyone did things fairly people are happy to "help out", but they are extreme opposite if you take their chance without their consent.

    I was farming arp trinket in TOC normal dungeon, made a group, explained everythnig, I was a tank, but rolled for that trinket and also all tank gear. Everyone was "yeah, sure" or left the party. Was fair, nice and smooth, everything was clear to everyone. No problems. Didn't have to impose my will on anyone unwillingly. So here it is - player wants his OS gear, create group, negotiate and do whatever.
    Edited: August 17, 2020

  2. I think eveyonce offspecc have higher prio then enchanting mats that there's several thousands of on auctionhouse yes, but that my wacky way of thinking, I guess actual gear uppgrades isn't important in this game where every single leader asks for high GS allready.
    Perhaps ideally, but we aren't in an ideal scenario. Players can't regulate themselves - it's why this rule came to be - and GMs can't be expected to scrutinize every single case to make a call of who deserved a piece of gear the most.

    In what universe does being silent = no.
    Ours. Silence isn't consent. Believing silence is consent is a fast track to sexual harassment if you need a raw example.


    Trolls allready make up their loopholes around your ingame rules to annoy and piss off players as much as they can, and you think this will not be abused, this is like a smorgosbord for trolls, all of this because you decide to bann on these terms, could be very simply fixed by saying "only if you reply with "No you can't MS roll OS" THEN and only THEN does your ticket have validity.
    There's no loophole being made by so-called trolls. Assuming someone not saying anything means they agree is making up a loophole to requiring explicit agreement. Whatever you believe about our universe and "silence = yes," you will have to learn things are different. There's a total amount of zero "irrealism" in it.

    If you want my personal opinion, I'd never even call up that rule to roll Need if everyone agrees. I'd just let people know I can use the drop, roll Greed, and if someone else wins it ask them directly if I could have it or can buy it from them. Whether they say no, make an excuse or whatever, I move on. They won the roll and that's all there is to it.

  3. I don't know where you made the connection that Silence = yes, no one ever said or implied anything like that...
    I asked if silence = no, simple as that, In my opinion silence = nothing, if someone dosen't reply to a question do you allways assume they mean no?

    "Hey you don't wanna do this dungeon right?" - No response- "ah that means no kick him".

    what I'm implying is that no response can't be interpreted by you as a third person to decice what it means.
    Edited: August 17, 2020

  4. I don't know where you made the connection that Silence = yes, no one ever said or implied anything like that...
    I asked if silence = no, simple as that, In my opinion silence = nothing, if someone dosen't reply to a question do you allways assume they mean no?

    "Hey you don't wanna do this dungeon right?" - No respose- "ah that means no kick him".

    what I'm implying is that no response can't be interpreted by you as a third person to decice what it means.
    There's no "Kinda Need" or "Perhaps Greed" third option. If "silence = no" is "something from another universe" it, by the logic of exclusion, can only means yes when there's no third option, which is what's applied by people who go by the "that player said nothing, so it must mean I can roll Need" made up loophole, which you are defending.

  5. No reply = no reply, it dosen't mean "no" like you're implying, there is a third option and it's that, it dosen't mean anything.

  6. No reply = no reply, it dosen't mean "no" like you're implying, there is a third option and it's that, it dosen't mean anything.
    Well, now you are trolling.
    Silence means "default settings", which is - you can't NEED for OS.

    Same as with your example - player is in a raid and his silence maintains same status - he wants to raid because he is in a raid.

  7. No reply = no reply, it dosen't mean "no" like you're implying, there is a third option and it's that, it dosen't mean anything.
    It means no by default, by essence of not meaning yes. If you can't understand that, there's no point replying further. Either you follow the rule without understanding it or you don't and get punished.

  8. So if you have a poll on warmane to vote yes or no, do you take all those who didn't say anything and counted them as no too? I'm trying to shed some light on what I se as a problem but if staff don't think it's a problem I se no point continue this discussion.
    Edited: August 17, 2020

  9. So if you have a poll on warmane to vote yes or no, do you take all those who didn't say anything and counted them as no too? I'm trying to shed some light on what I se as a problem but if staff don't think it's a problem I se no point continue this discussion.
    Vote only counts the active participants. So only yes or no; A or B; 1 or 2; votes would count. Those who didn't vote, they have no vote to count, when they couldn't cast their vote. Not saying anything in the matter of "Can I need for OS" doesn't mean yes or no, it defaults to server's rule:

    Originally Posted by Aldtharios
    In-game ninja policy
    -In RDF needing on items for OS (unless everyone in party is explicitly fine with this).
    The word "explicitly" in the rule heavily leans on affirmative answer must be given. If everybody in the party won't affirmative response, you can't roll need for OS. 3 affirmatives and 1 silent doesn't make it 4 affirmatives. 3 negatives and 1 silent doesn't make it 4 negatives.

    Schrödinger's cat, anybody?
    Edited: August 18, 2020

  10. Are you people still hung up over this simple topic? Y'all made a 3 page dissertation instead of just clicking the other button? Come on now... This is why the community(at least on Icecrown) is going cold and toxic.

    People DO NOT communicate
    Asking a question is met with absolute silence. Either because of language barriers or because of people feeling superior to those asking the question. Asking a question a second time with a bit more demand for a response is "annoying", "pointless", "are you too stupid to know how things work?", "ask one more time and you're getting kicked RRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE".

    People DO NOT make compromises in favor of the bigger picture
    It must always be their idea, not anyone else's, regardless of success or failure. At Skadi in Utgarde Pinnacle, where you can do 2 achievements at once, you ask people to either trade you any poons they loot, or just not to shoot. They shoot regardless. Or they collect and they don't do sh*t, ultimately WASTING TIME. But no, it's important to not listen to anyone, because I know better - thought the random 5k gs ret paladin with Intellect epics from AH as he screwed up 2 achievements and hugged the boss during whirlwind.
    When you tell people about some small tricks they could learn to make their game a bit easier and more enjoyable, you're instantly branded the "nerd", you have a stick up your a**, you're a tryhard, "we play for fun, stfu".
    tricks = if an NPC is knocking you back 24/7, rub your a** against a wall

    People LOVE blowing your words out of proportion
    Literally a few days ago I reported a disruptive, entitled tool, who thought "yo, I'm the healer, if I say skip this boss(which takes less than 30 sec to kill), it means you skip it, because it's a waste of time". At Svala Sorrowgrave in Utgarde Pinnacle guy asked "pass this boss?" as we were clearing next trash to utilize the roleplay. I decided to make it funny and said "yes" *next row*"by killing her". Druid tank LOL'd. Our VIP healer started explaining how people skip this boss because she's "a waste of time" just as I wrote "plus I'm kinda fed up with people skipping a 1 minute fight". So when I read his nonsense I asked "then why do you play the game?", meaning "you know what game you're playing, you know the content, why do you play it if you intend on skipping half of it?". As soon as he read that he flew off the handle. I was apparently making drama for nothing and, apparently, if I needed emblems, I should farm fos pos normal. Excuse me? First of all, since when can someone dictate how one grinds ingame currency?! Second, how many times can you re-run those dungeons, before you don't want to anymore or get locked out due to inbuilt limitations? Ultimately making you how many emblems? Anyways, moving on, in his infinite wisdom he said "now you will apologize or I will leave and you'll spend another hour looking for a healer"*bear was LOLing hard at this point*. Since I wasn't intending to "apologize" to such a specimen, I told him to be a man and leave, to which he said "kick me, I'll just afk until you do". MAN OF HIS F*CKING WORD RIGHT THERE, LADIES AND GENTS! Now who's wasting time on top of breaking server rules? A one minute boss is "a waste of time" in a game essentially designed to "waste time"... I don't remember the exact response to my ticket but I sure as hell hope he got what's coming to a disruptive player.

    EVERYONE HERE PLAYS FOR THEMSELVES! Don't ever think the majority of players understand that gearing others is as important as gearing themselves. They don't. They would much rather get your item because "zOmG gEaRsCoRe". This is why I NEVER Need on stuff that's not for my mainspec(what I entered as, not what my talent windows says is my Primary Talents)(YES, THAT INCLUDES FREAKING LOCKBOXES). Simple as. No questions asked. If someone wants to be a d-bag and roll on everything they can - here's a bunch of screenshots, here's the player's armory, byeeeeeee. Stop expecting the rules to apply to a perfect community where people actually have a brain instead of a barrel full of TOXIC waste. If something hints to a certain player being an actual decent person - sure, otherwise - no.

  11. Yes, people don't communicate in RDF: I've seen oh so many need rolls for OS, but only so few questions if they can. Thus people come here and ask: "Why I got banned, I have done nothing wrong?" and regular forum users are going to copy paste their previous answers from similar topic. Then comes a person with their opinions and they voice them and the topic gains more replies.
    Boss skipping: I don't mind it. I've played this game longer than any other game, leveled numerous alts, killed these trash bosses more than enough. I'm not gonna cry after skipping/doing 1 boss, no matter if I need the single EoT from it, or not.
    mUh aChIeVeMeNt: It's RDF with randoms, if you want to get an achievement, make a premade group for it.
    Selfishness & GS: Yes, people want that GS, since every raid has ridiculous GS requirements. "Join a guild" doesn't help, when they have GS requirements as well. You know that you can reach 5.2K GS with 264 BoE's and 232/245 items? So would you want to guess where should you upgrade your 232 items at? ToC25 and ToGC10 would offer 245 items. But wait! You need 5.5K to join ToC25 and 6K for ToGC10. So you need to scrape every little GS you can get your hands on to get to raids. So how are you going to get those ICC10 man runs that requires 5.8K GS, when you're already being denied next set of raids you should join, in order to gear up and join later raids.
    Why so high GS requirements? It's easy: People don't learn, they don't want to learn, and they have no intention to learn. So when you need players to fill your raid, you take those people who has enough GS to make up for their mistakes. You don't want to take 5K GS player because you assume they'd die to Marrowgar's flames, or generally have no clue (take one and you begin to question how they leveled their toon to 80). You want to take that 6K player, because their huge health pool allows them to sit in flames longer, before they die (or hopefully move away). Also, with higher GS you get those unskippable kills done faster. Weird, Here I thought people wanted to "waste" their time and take the longer route.

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