LOOTING RULERS ! I have some questions

[beefycrit1]

Do a ban appeal. There are some nonwritten rules that most can agree, which includes some leather pieces. But wrist from rs is a big nono to hunter at least and while not being sure, its not for fdk aswell, at least not the normal version. Some warriors are getting umbra hc at BiS, but not before that.

GM prolly only checked the rolls and didnt check which item was rolled. So, make a ban appeal and explain the situation.

PS: If this was ok since it can be an upgrade, we should see shield users are rolling bpc offhands.

Already made a ticket but the GM didnt bother to answer me.
Even though he has written in the forum that he has read it.

Lol :D I guess LFM Should look like this on Warmane:

LFM RS25N 6K+ With ACH [Twilight Destroyet 25 Player] Copyright 2020, All Rights Reserved.

[Winryi]

This is the extreme case of abusing the rule. Yes, it happens, and a lot of people you meet in pugs are greedy and just want every single piece of gear that drops, but the rule is in place mostly because the general population has no idea which class uses what gear.
That's why specifying rules at the start of the raid is important. You either go with the flow and just let everybody roll on anything or you make sure you're clear about how you're going to distribute the items before the raid starts.

And what happened to OP? FDK wanted Umbrages and won the roll, but wasn't given them as they aren't as good as they are for other roller(s).
So pissed from the situation, I can only assume, the FDK made the report*. Perhaps the reporter knew it was slightly wrong, but ninja rules are ninja rules. I don't know how this situation didn't fall to "exception" where OP wouldn't be banned.
*Pure speculation, could've been anybody from the raid that made the report in the end.

The rules lack the grey area of common sense. And when you deal with the reports, I only assume, you can't be biased to "who needs/deserves/fits it the most".

Still, they are better than nothing, which was the case years ago.

[Obnoxious]

The rules lack the grey area of common sense.

The issue seems to really just be that people look at them the wrong way. Sprotess has brought up the same point more than once and it's still being missed. The ninja rules for Raids aren't meant to ensure people will get what they "need/deserve/want/fits." Expecting GMs to make decisions like that for each of the hundreds of Raids that must happen every day is absurd. It should only really take reading over the rules and what sort of evidence is required in a report to understand something that's right there: the ninja rules are meant to ensure that the raid's rules are followed. It's on the players and raid leader to have them (or their lack) clear for everyone before the run starts.

[beefycrit1]

The issue seems to really just be that people look at them the wrong way. Sprotess has brought up the same point more than once and it's still being missed. The ninja rules for Raids aren't meant to ensure people will get what they "need/deserve/want/fits." Expecting GMs to make decisions like that for each of the hundreds of Raids that must happen every day is absurd. It should only really take reading over the rules and what sort of evidence is required in a report to understand something that's right there: the ninja rules are meant to ensure that the raid's rules are followed. It's on the players and raid leader to have them (or their lack) clear for everyone before the run starts.

True, If there was such a thing as call GM instantly. It would be subject to a huge amount of exploiting.
However , an appeal is made now, And all the player agree with me, I think that DK knew that this rule is in place and decided to Exploit the rule.

[Disktrasa]

who I remember saying in a different thread that he has 20 alts and has been raiding in end-game guilds for quite some time, doesn't know the exact classes that use Umbrage. It's not only rets/udks and assa's but also ferals (both cat and bear), warriors, 2set combat rogues and both ap and sp enha's (even sp enha's take it over bracers of fiery night).
Now imagine trying to argue over item eligibility with somebody with less experience that's been playing on warmane only for a couple of months or has never raided any sort of end-game content . And this is 95% of the server's population.

Well I leveled around 20 chars but I have 10 classes on my account, on which I play around 7 of them because I don't find the other 3 classes very fun, anyhow the point was not to mention every single class that can use them, Just picked the once that's most played in general, The whole pojnt was to explain how Frost DK's or hunters don't use them.

I don't know how this situation didn't fall to "exception" where OP wouldn't be banned.
The rules lack the grey area of common sense. And when you deal with the reports, I only assume, you can't be biased to "who needs/deserves/fits it the most".
Still, they are better than nothing, which was the case years ago.

I agree completely.

I think that DK knew that this rule is in place and decided to Exploit the rule.

I think he just wanted more gearscore. He is currently under hit cap allready and want to change his wrists that gives him hit for leather wrists which he dosen't need since it's not even an uppgrade. But just like Obnoxious sais it would be absurd to go through all this inspection as a GM who has hundreds of reports maybe even thousands for all we know, But it's also absurd to implement rules that bans a lot of people for the wrong reasons, luckily we have ban appeal but a bann hits hard for every player, Belive me when I say that it's not a easy task to implement the "perfect rules" on this matter, and the system we have now is much better then the ninja fest we had before, sadly there is collateral damage, Try to keep personal feelings out of it though, it will only get you banned. Forums are strict here on Warmane.

[Obnoxious]

Try to keep personal feelings out of it though, it will only get you banned. Forums are strict here on Warmane.

As will repeatedly reposting the same thing multiple times, after edits and deletions, which should be enough to make it clear the content (in this case exposing the people who supposedly made the report) wasn't okay.

[dashSia]

The rules lack the grey area of common sense. And when you deal with the reports, I only assume, you can't be biased to "who needs/deserves/fits it the most".

I believe there is such a thing, afew months back I was raiding with my warrior and Scourge Hunter's Vambraces dropped (gsb mail bracers) and I had a blacksmithing made wrist on since the stats are pretty much same as Toskk's but the demand is pretty low I assumed it's ok if I rolled on them and after I won the raid leader just gave it to the hunter cause he said the hunters have "Priority" on that item so I decided to report the leader to see what happens cause I host some pugs every now and then, I wanted to know what's the right thing to do as a leader after I reported the leader GMs responded that the raid leader didn't do anything wrong and that he's not gonna get banned, so I think in these situations there isn't a strict set of rules sometimes it just falls under the Gm's judgement which in my opinion is wrong in Beefy's case.

[OhieMitzen]

I wanted to know what's the right thing to do as a leader after I reported the leader GMs responded that the raid leader didn't do anything wrong and that he's not gonna get banned, so I think in these situations there isn't a strict set of rules sometimes it just falls under the Gm's judgement which in my opinion is wrong in Beefy's case.

My point exactly. These situations are similar, but both had very different results. So imagine being raid leader, who believes doing the right thing, ends up being reported. The possible ban from it, feels like a coin toss, you either land on GM that believes RL/ML did the right choice (e.g. example you gave), or you get the opposite who follows the ninja rules to the letter (if you win the roll, you win the item, as with beefy's case).

I just hope some level of consistency, as you never know what could happen. As Obnoxious said "As the rule covering this states, GMs are not meant to be a shield against ninja". Though, you need to review the reports case by case, and a case can be clearer than other, so making judgment calls can be hard. I've made my number of ninja reports. Many/most of the report responses I've been satisfied/agreed to regardless of outcome, some/few of them have been "oh, okay" and that's that. Never have I bothered beyond making a report.

Even though I've criticized ninja reporting as of late, this doesn't mean, that I wouldn't appreciate the people reviewing the reports, or the rules themselves.

[MattS2010]

From my point of view, it would be better if the GM only intervene in matters of cheating, boting and those things, and that the rest, manage by the community itself, as it always was.