What item to buy with coins

[Gnimo]

It is funny how you assume that he has any gear on him and claim how off hand is no more than a stat stick @Sprotess.
I dont know about you but, from what I know, off hand weapon damage is what gives you Rage, and Rage is really important for a Fury Warrior.
If you que HS or Cleave, your off hand will hit 100%, WW also gets buffed by off hand damage, WW and Off Hand white hits are a big chunk of Fury Warriors damage done, so...

@danirodas11
If your warrior has pre Icecrown Citadel gear, and/or is naked, the best item for you will be Glorenzelg for a long time.
If you are going to farm a lot of dungeons and pre ICC raids for gear, the best item for you will be Glorenzelg.
If you are not Expertise capped, the best item for you will be Glorenzelg.
The only point in gearing where DBW would be "better" is if you are at ~1240 Armor Penetration rating from gear with Cryptmaker or Mace of Menethil or Shadows Edge in off hand.
You can farn http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=47214, buy http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=42987, get http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45609 or http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45931 with points, which are far better trinkets for RDF farm due to higher uptime than DBW.

[Robbertes]

My whirlwind OH is 50% of my MH. Are you 100% crit capped with your HS, or more likely like 60% and its still rng. You want to spam HS/cleave all time and for that you want big *** dmg from your OH and all your mele swings comes from your OH if u have that HS/cleave spam. And i dont think you got the point for the buffs provided, check the previous replies

[Persivaln]

20 rage every 4 secs for BT - even glancing hit will give you enoug
25 rage every 8 secs for WW - regular white swing
Add here rage from getting hit, rage from healer talents
Geared fury jsut can't dump/spend/utilise all rage that he gets in raids. SO yeah, no problem having HS 95%+ up with all this haste from FLurry and Talons/WF totem which boosts you to somewhat like 2.0 speed.
I got everything about buffs. But if you realy want to compose raid on buffs - go on, take only 1 feral, 1 combat, like 6 fury, 1 enha and 1 UH dk. And 6 mages, 1 SP, 1 boomie and 1 demo lcok for rdps. Here is your "ideal" compositon. Now tell me, how many of such raids did you have?
There are lots of ppl here with lots of classes, and ppl WANT to play this different classes. SO when i go as Arms, i can cover ALL dmg buffs from THREE mdps specs. Not that bad, especialy if your single rogue/feral dies mid-fight or we take 10man raids into account.

[Robbertes]

Saying that dbw hc or even togc back is better to donate than gloren hc as OH is simply troll and misleading. DBW having 33% to proc a completely useless buff and togc back that will give u just a small increase in stats compated to eof back. And since you are misleading alot of people to donate for trinket instead of weapon, you will probably get dbw on the first month of raiding, since everyone already has it.

There is a reason that no one play arms for pve and thats not because its harder than fury. It simply does way less damage compared to fury and the buffs it gives are already given by crogs and feral druids. And OP is clearly asking for fury.

Imagine running around telling people "don't listen to that guy" in the same comment where you write that rogues apply increased bleed damage debuff. Big yikes.

[Persivaln]

Saying that dbw hc or even togc back is better to donate than gloren hc as OH is simply troll and misleading. DBW having 33% to proc a completely useless buff and togc back that will give u just a small increase in stats compated to eof back. And since you are misleading alot of people to donate for trinket instead of weapon, you will probably get dbw on the first month of raiding, since everyone already has it.

There is no "useless" buffs from DBW as fury, you are only one who trolls. And yes, it's better to get them, cuz difference between NM and HC Gloren is way less than between DBWs or cloaks. Back in summer there were no DBW drops for monthes in our guild, with three separate raids per week. And yes, OH is least crucial thing to get, it deals somewhat like 55-60% of dmg that it would have had being in MH. Getting NM gloren takes several weeks, while every other mentioned items can not drop in monthes

[jendah]

There is no "useless" buffs from DBW as fury, you are only one who trolls. And yes, it's better to get them, cuz difference between NM and HC Gloren is way less than between DBWs or cloaks. Back in summer there were no DBW drops for monthes in our guild, with three separate raids per week. And yes, OH is least crucial thing to get, it deals somewhat like 55-60% of dmg that it would have had being in MH. Getting NM gloren takes several weeks, while every other mentioned items can not drop in monthes

1. difference between nm and hc gloren is:
socket (20 arp)
7 crit
17 str
15 expertise

dbw norm vs hc:
12 arp
100 stats on proc (which is random str/haste/crit - so lets count 1/3 of each) -> 33 str, 33 haste, 33 crit with 28,57% uptime (30/105s) = 9.4 str + 9.4 haste + 9.4 crit

If you compare the two (8 arp -2.4 crit +7.6 str - 9.4 haste + 15 expertise + some weapon dps) - having gloren hc is more stats => mathematically better on average. Only reason why dbw might sim better on some fights is if their duration favors proc. (dbw has better than expected uptime) DBW will be better on 135s fights. (like dbs) and on longer figths (like lk) difference will flip in favor of gloren.


2. Your guild not dropping dbw for 2 months is not a valid argument. It is just about being lucky/unlucky. There can be a guild that doesnt drop single gloren for 6 months.

3. You are lucky raiding with a guild having lk on farm. Not many do that. In fact it is arguably easier to pug dbs hc than lk norm.

[Sprotess]

None of your abilities have anything to do with your off-hand except roughly 30% of your whirlwind damage. If you were to play with a stick instead of a weapon in your offhand, your Heroic Strike/Cleave/Bloodthirst/Slam would all do the same damage (given that your stick has the same stats as a weapon would).

It is funny how you assume that he has any gear on him and claim how off hand is no more than a stat stick @Sprotess.
I dont know about you but, from what I know, off hand weapon damage is what gives you Rage, and Rage is really important for a Fury Warrior.
If you que HS or Cleave, your off hand will hit 100%, WW also gets buffed by off hand damage, WW and Off Hand white hits are a big chunk of Fury Warriors damage done, so...

I'm answering the guy saying that abilities scale with your off-hand (which is completely false except for a smaller portion of WW damage) and you talk about white damage and rage generation. Feels like you're trolling at this point. Never claimed that your offhand is a stat stick, I said that regardless of the offhand you use your BT/Slam/HS/Cleave damage will stay the same, thus the example with the stick. Read what I said carefully.

If your warrior has pre Icecrown Citadel gear, and/or is naked, the best item for you will be Glorenzelg for a long time.
If you are going to farm a lot of dungeons and pre ICC raids for gear, the best item for you will be Glorenzelg.
If you are not Expertise capped, the best item for you will be Glorenzelg.

You're not donating for an item to get maximum efficiency in rdfs. You're getting ready to progress through content with that character, and my point still stands that getting a proper weapon to the point where dbw would be a better upgrade than gloren OH is insanely easy. If you already have sts and shadowmourn, your pre-raid gearing phase will last less than a week most of the times.
Capping expertise from Gloren is not a good thing most of the times while gearing. You're tying your hands when it comes to gear alternatives. If you get all your expertise from gloren, you won't be able to play a lot of very good pieces that you can fetch with 0 competition while gearing (fester 10hc hands, gsb 10hc boots, sindy 10 belt, skeleton lord's circle, rotface 10hc ring, bql 25 neck and the list goes on). Having dbw will not affect you while gearing and fetching a proper trinket is still significantly harder. Banner, darkmoon card, vote points trinkets and especially arp proc trinkets like mjolnir or scorpoid become obsolete very fast.

If you bought shadowmourn + sts and plan on doing rdfs and toc10nm for 3 months then yes, gloren is your best choice.

[danirodas11]

@Gnimo
Hello, I have my warrior lvl 35 ATM haha, i bought SM+STS+GLOREN+Banner of victory with 11 points (i already had like 60 points) (i am an old server player but never have had a warrior, and now that i sold some toons i said why not proving SM power, thanks for your opinion! what item do you think i can buy with those points i have? could u help me Gnimo?
And those discussions are worthless guys, because in a month i will buy DBW HC with coins, so i will have it, i just wanted to know wich was better to begin with.

[Gnimo]

You assumed that he has any gear to begin with, which was your first mistake in the argument.
You than assumed he only raids Icecrown Citadel and nothing else, which was your second mistake.

He did not link any armory, he just said I bought items...

I assumed he has naked level 80 char with Shadowmourne and STS as only 2 items as he presented his post.
I assumed he will be farming the rest of the gear, both in dungeons and raids.

In case my assumption was wrong, @danirodas11, please link the armory of your character.

You said that any other trinket is "far worse than DBW" which is not true.
You said that he would pull more DPS with SM and 2 BIS trinkets as Arms, which is also not true because Fury with SM+Gloren and STS would win.
You said that he has a slim chance to win even WFS as a "decent" trinket, where I really dont see how he will get any "decent" weapon if he cant kill Lady on normal or hc.
Yes. Arms is BAD in comparison to Fury warrior with SM + Gloren as a weapon combo in an era where off hand does not miss just as long as HS/Cleave is qued.
The sims you did are just... Something to say the least.
EVERYTHING regarding your abilities has to do with RAGE GENERATION which is done by your OFF HAND.

http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50730 + http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45931 (or any other trinket above)
vs
http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45516 + http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50363

For you to say anything when it comes to this discussion without knowing what is the rest of the gear he has is just mind blowing to me.

When it comes to the NAKED character that just hit level 80, biggest upgrades would be:
1. Shadowmourne
2. Glorenzelg
3. Sharpened Twilight Scale

I dont know about you, but I did not forget 266 Strength, 122 critical rating and 114 expertise Gloren also brings as a passive stat bonus at all times, on top of the 344.2 damage per second (highest in game).

[Sprotess]

How long does one plan to stay naked when buying items and why would you ever prioritize buying items based on which one is the biggest improvement when you're naked? If you have 219 coins to buy shadowmourn + 3 bis items you probably have 10 coins to buy 35k gold and fetch bs pants+boots, toc chest and toc bracers. Throw in some boe shoulders and ring of rotting sinew and you're already starting at 5k gearscore with the rest of your gear being 30g blues.

The sims were some random example of a warrior after a couple of weeks of raiding where DBW + a proper setup around it starts to heavily outshine gloren. As I said earlier, if you plan on never upgrading your gear buy gloren. If you raid constantly, dbw will be a better investment quite quick.

It's not about killing lady, it's about drop chance + chance of winning it. You see it drop once every 5-6 runs if you're lucky, and you still have to roll for it against other people while weapons have plenty of options to choose from with significantly less competition. Banner is realistically your best alternative and easiest to get.

EVERYTHING regarding your abilities has to do with RAGE GENERATION which is done by your OFF HAND.

http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50730 + http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45931 (or any other trinket above)
vs
http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45516 + http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50363

Using your own example, in which universe will you ever rage starve for having Voldrethar instead of Gloren? Any proper weapon will generate enough rage for your abilities and it has nothing to do with ability damage scaling (except WW).

[Gnimo]

~20-25% of overall damage at BiS on a dummy is from Off Hand alone (white + WW).
At BiS gear while DPSing the dummy you can Rage Starve.
I would assume you can Rage Starve with 5.5k gs (with SM equiped) or less with a "bad" off hand weapon in Raids as well.
I have no clue which content is danirodas11 doing, all I can assume is that his warrior is fresh as it seems from his post since he did not give an armory link or say anything else.
Unless he gives more info I will stay by what I said since for every melee, the biggest damage upgrade from fresh char to bis is Weapons at start, followed by trinkets.

I will just add that for a fresh char that can get Hit Cap as Fury from BoE ICC neck and ring, with Rep ring to end it all, Expertise from Gloren is REALLY important.

I have no intention to get in more useless argument with dumb examples with you on a topic you did not read yourself in the first place.

"i will donate for the 4th item, like in a month , so i will have that bis item yes or yes, can u tell me wich one is better to have first, wich one will increase my dps more"

In case you did not catch his comment, he will get BOTH Gloren and DBW.
From a naked char perspective Gloren is better first.
The end.

Oh, btw, good luck killing Lich King 25m hc before killing Lady 10m norm/hc and/or DBS 25m norm/hc.

[Sprotess]

"i will donate for the 4th item, like in a month , so i will have that bis item yes or yes, can u tell me wich one is better to have first, wich one will increase my dps more"

In case you did not catch his comment, he will get BOTH Gloren and DBW.
From a naked char perspective Gloren is better first.
The end.

I agree on this. But in any other case where he had a bit more gear I wouldn't have agreed.

I have no intention to get in more useless argument with dumb examples with you on a topic you did not read yourself in the first place.

Big words coming from somebody that does his tests on dummies and comes up with a 5/5 deflection + heroic strike p1 on LoD guide for end-game warriors. "Proper way to play this class" until I linked you one of izobella's vods (since he's one of the warriors I know you're familiar with) doing exactly the opposite and you started editing your guide. You're delusional.

[Gnimo]

If you think I edited my guide because of you, you are even more delusional than I tought.
I edit ALL my guides when I catch 5min of my free time to do so...

I stand by everything I said in my "unfinished" guide.
I would like to see you play your own warrior, even on a dummy, but you are just as many other, "all talk" warmane forum users.
If I had time to play, or a guild that would inv me for LoD fight only past 21h ST, you would have more than dummy "tests", but sadly you get only that.

Again, I dont see how Deflection is bad in comparison to Rend you never use, and 3 less rage HS, but I guess you are just another player who has no clue how parry and parry haste work on players.
Also, Cleaving Ghouls like a brain dead monkey, together with 2+ other Fury Warriors is nothing than a DPS loss (especially if you position yourself in front of Lich King and get parried), but I guess you still cant realise how Aggro and Slam! talent work as well.

Big words coming from someone who thinks off hand alone has a 27% miss chance...

[Sprotess]

Applying deep wounds on multiple targets and proc-ing your set bonus + proc-ing enrage is better than spamming HS on LK with parry haste. If you would actually raid and not hug the dummies 24/7 you might notice that those braindead cleave spamming warriors are racing mages on LK damage and topping useful damage at the end of the fight.

I would like to see you play your own warrior, even on a dummy, but you are just as many other, "all talk" warmane forum users.

I disagree, I actually raid more than I post here. Quite ironic coming from somebody who didn't leave ironforge in 2 years.

Spoiler: Show

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/5753932...FW-isdz60xX5RQ

Here's another brain dead monkey spamming cleave. 10:10 you can see he's 1.2 mil above 2nd place on useful damage. Do you want his discord? So you can give him advice on putting 5 points in deflection and using HS? Or are you going to come back to reality anytime soon?

[zvonar60rus]

spamming HS on LK with parry haste.

nice raids brother, stop smoking crack