WotLK Best frost tank dk ( dual hand)

[angrylol]

Let me summarize Frost and Blood talent specifics for you:
Excluding irrelevant things like threat, since there is 0 problem with threat on either spec. You did not explain exact benefit of converting all 6 runes to Death Runes, and you, as a Frost tank, only need to convert your blood runes for usage of Unbreakable Armor(1 Frost Rune) and keep Death Strike(1 Frost, 1 Unholy) count up.

Universal things:
Blade Barrier
Death Pact
Army of the Dead
AMS
Icebound
Rune Tap (since your build has it too)
Spell Deflection (since your build has it too)
Veteren of the Third War (since your build has it too)
4pT10
Sindragosa trinket

Frost specific things:
1. Improved Frost Presence - 2% less damage taken (good)
2. FrigidDreadplate - 3% avoidance (low value, unreliable, game favours EHP instead of funny 3% gamble to survive)
3. Unbreakable Armor - 25% bonus armor for 20 seconds (low value, translates to low % damage reduction - more armor you have, lower value it gives due to Armor scaling diminishing. Works only against physical damage, you are screwed against big boss magic hits)
4. +6 seconds on Icebound Fortitude (low value, since dangerous moment will be over by the time those extra second start to tick. 12 seconds is plenty sufficient and will let you survive.)

Blood Specific things:
1. Improved Death Strike - 5% more healing on each Death Strike(good, 15% of your total HP)
2. Vampiric Blood - 15% mx HP increase and 35% stronger any healing on you for 15 seconds(glyphed). (extremely powerful, against any boss mechanic. Has amazing synergy with improved Death Strike and Rune Tap, even Death Pact. Becomes only stronger since it scales with more stamina on your gear. One of the strongest spells in the game.)
3. Will of the Necropolis - Any damage that would take you under 35% of your total HP will be reduced by 15%. (great, no ICD, works against physical as well as magical damage, exactly when you need it as a passive with no effort needed)

So, where do you see "blood takes so much damage". Blood takes 2% more damage, but 15% less damage on hits that are bringing your HP low.
And that "Frost is always slow and tank in lore", bruh, maybe you need another 30 years in games to realize that's not how games work.

[KiTaRo54]

Let me summarize Frost and Blood talent specifics for you:
Excluding irrelevant things like threat, since there is 0 problem with threat on either spec. You did not explain exact benefit of converting all 6 runes to Death Runes, and you, as a Frost tank, only need to convert your blood runes for usage of Unbreakable Armor(1 Frost Rune) and keep Death Strike(1 Frost, 1 Unholy) count up.

Universal things:
Blade Barrier
Death Pact
Army of the Dead
AMS
Icebound
Rune Tap (since your build has it too)
Spell Deflection (since your build has it too)
Veteren of the Third War (since your build has it too)
4pT10
Sindragosa trinket

Frost specific things:
1. Improved Frost Presence - 2% less damage taken (good)
2. FrigidDreadplate - 3% avoidance (low value, unreliable, game favours EHP instead of funny 3% gamble to survive)
3. Unbreakable Armor - 25% bonus armor for 20 seconds (low value, translates to low % damage reduction - more armor you have, lower value it gives due to Armor scaling diminishing. Works only against physical damage, you are screwed against big boss magic hits)
4. +6 seconds on Icebound Fortitude (low value, since dangerous moment will be over by the time those extra second start to tick. 12 seconds is plenty sufficient and will let you survive.)

Blood Specific things:
1. Improved Death Strike - 5% more healing on each Death Strike(good, 15% of your total HP)
2. Vampiric Blood - 15% mx HP increase and 35% stronger any healing on you for 15 seconds(glyphed). (extremely powerful, against any boss mechanic. Has amazing synergy with improved Death Strike and Rune Tap, even Death Pact. Becomes only stronger since it scales with more stamina on your gear. One of the strongest spells in the game.)
3. Will of the Necropolis - Any damage that would take you under 35% of your total HP will be reduced by 15%. (great, no ICD, works against physical as well as magical damage, exactly when you need it as a passive with no effort needed)

So, where do you see "blood takes so much damage". Blood takes 2% more damage, but 15% less damage on hits that are bringing your HP low.
And that "Frost is always slow and tank in lore", bruh, maybe you need another 30 years in games to realize that's not how games work.

You wrote down the blood features and there is nothing to do with defense.
Frost Presence %8 + %2 = %10,6
Anti Magic Shell (45 sec CD) ( Best skill for magic defense)
Acclimation
properties that increase both magic and physical defense

Frost increases unbreakable armor by 20% more armor and %20 more str 20 sec!
Improved Blood Presence %15 Hp for 10sec? (what is this lol)

It is very difficult to understand what I mean without making an ICC tank with DK for a long time.
I have 24blood - 47frost talent.
Both defense is strong and I can steal Healt

I'm playing this talent. I am satisfied. I do not have problem!
Playing blood is all about taste. You will need good healer friends.

[Blind]

It is very difficult to understand what I mean without making an ICC tank with DK for a long time.

I'm playing this talent. I am satisfied. I do not have problem!

Playing a tank isn't rocket science. Even without the 60 LoDs I did on Lordaeron I could tell you that your build is garbage.

You play it. With your extremely limited knowledge you deeming it good doesn't make it a good build.

The go-to standard is 43/26/2, with the 2 points in unholy being "spare points" you could put somewhere else if you feel like it. Offers 10% AP + 20% Haste, has the highest ehp after bear and can soak three reapers in a row without issue.

You're like fishbro with his arp-capped uh dk build that works on paper because he uses 16 runes per cycle instead of 12. Basics flawed beyond repair, so every argument is wasted.

[angrylol]

You wrote down the blood features and there is nothing to do with defense.
Frost Presence %8 + %2 = %10,6

It says "additional", so its 10%.

Anti Magic Shell (45 sec CD) ( Best skill for magic defense)

Which all DK specs has and doesn't contribute to some increased worth for Frost over other specs

Acclimation
properties that increase both magic and physical defense

Please elaborate, on which bosses Acclimation is good or even works? I can see 2-3 bosses where it has some benefit. Everywhere else it doesn't even stack to anything or reduces baseline ticks that are 0 danger to a tank.
Also how does 150 Resistance translate in to damage reduction, do you even know how Resistances work?

Frost increases unbreakable armor by 20% more armor and %20 more str 20 sec!

It's actually 25% Armor. At your current gear, how big is physical damage decrease from this spell on you? How much Armor you have? Do you even know what Armor does?

Improved Blood Presence %15 Hp for 10sec? (what is this lol)

I guess you mean Vampiric Blood. It is amazing spell and I don't recall a single time where I have died while it's active on me. And you gain +5 seconds duration with glyph.

It is very difficult to understand what I mean without making an ICC tank with DK for a long time.
I have 24blood - 47frost talent.
Both defense is strong and I can steal Healt

I'm playing this talent. I am satisfied. I do not have problem!
Playing blood is all about taste. You will need good healer friends.

You do not have a problem, yet you get kicked from raids and no one want's to play with you. With your build you need helaer friends, an army of paladins for Hand of Sacrifice and discipline priest for Pain Suppression, because you are missing a cooldown and passive reduction, so other players have to carry you.

Play it if you like, that's all good. Just don't try to tell anyone it's good. It doesn't give any miraculous damage reduction just because "Frost is tank bruh". And don't get mad, don't call people 13 year old kids when they don't want anything to do with your discount tank spec.

Your problem is that you don't understand fundamentals of tanking. Usually there are 2 kinds of damage on a tank:
1. Boss "auto attacks", which are not dangerous unless there is anther mechanism involved(heals unable to heal)
2. Boss "damage spikes", which are dangerous and WILL kill you.

You watch what is happening with your healers[can they keep healing me?] and use CD appropriately.
You know what will happen(boss spells) and use appropriate CDs to reduce "damage spikes". Now that you have actually looked ingame how little Unbreakable Armor gives you, you know it won't work here(0 against magic and low single digit against physical). So you are missing 1 CD. Adittionally you do not have any passive that would reduce these spikes like WOTN does(apart from Acclimation in it's rare and limited usefulness). All you have is 2% from improved presence.

But I guess you can't comprehend all this over the noise in your head. You go all defencive when people who played thousands of times longer than you, are smarter than you, use simulations and tools unlike you, have actually done all raids and all bosses unlike you, have tried all possible tanking specs, unlike you.. trying to help. And you go and say "fRoST iS bEtteR", you know it was funny a bit, but in a good hearted way, everyone tried to help you to get better, become good, all kinds of good info about actual game instead of your fantasy "how it is in games". Now I think you are just dumb and beyond help. So good luck.

[Levvy]

Honestly, don’t even know where to begin, every post made by you has so much misinformation and delusional beliefs it’s too much to comprehend.

Frost Presence %8 + %2 = %10,6

You do realize Frost Presence is used for all DK tanks regardless of spec right?

Meanwhile, Blood DK has Will of the Necropolis 15% damage reduction WHENEVER you are below OR get hit in an attack that would take you below 35% (Which in ICC is ANYTIME you are at like 20k hp (min for around 55k hp tank, 5.5k gs tank, keeping in mind min health is also raised by synergy of vampiric blood BTW)

I can’t emphasize how BUSTED this talent is. It means you effectively have that 15% damage reduction for any and every meaningful attack received. Meaning it’s not only in effect at 35% hp but also at 50%, 65%. It’s pretty much always active unless you are at 100%, at which case you don’t need healing anyway

Meanwhile frost dk gets what? 2% more damage reduction while at 100%? Playing your spec, you are choosing to basically take 13% more damage on most 2nd or third boss melee swings, but also whenever that damage actually is a threat to your life.

Where is your common sense man?

Anti Magic Shell (45 sec CD) ( Best skill for magic defense)Acclimation
properties that increase both magic and physical defense

Acclimation is horrible. You put 3 talent points deep into Frost Tree to get a 30% chance upon taking elemental damage to gain 50 resistance to that damage type stacking to 150, each phase of the buff lasting 12 seconds before dropping off. 1 tick. This is such a useless talent because it is unreliable, too slow, and redundant.

The only time you need this much resistance (maybe) is for large amounts of magic damage, which in ICC is often infrequent and bursty, but with this talent, you have to TAKE THE DAMAGE FIRST (LOL) then get a 30% chance to get 50 resistance. But why would you ever need this when DK has the strongest built-in answer to this AT YOUR LEISURE. It’s called ANTI-MAGIC SHELL, every DK SPEC HAS IT, and comically - USING AMS almost always will cause Acclimation to drop, thus encouraging you to not use AMS because you will LOSE YOUR STACKS.

1)#showtooltip Icy Touch
/cast Icy Touch(Rank 5)
/cast Blood Fury(Racial)
/cast Empower Rune Weapon
When the ERW CD arrives, ICE touch is on the macro so how you are Use separately if you want, your own choice

This macro is clinically ******ed.

I mean you can’t even clarify with your clarification of how or when to use this? Is this your opener?

Why do you cast Bloody Fury AFTER you cast Icy Touch?

Bind Icy Touch to ERW? Why? So you can cast Icy Touch while ERW is on cooldown for 5 minutes? Really dude? You bind Icy Touch to ERW? Not Death Strike, or idk, maybe Death Strike, or maybe Death Strike? 0 Sense.

Frost increases unbreakable armor by 20% more armor and %20 more str 20 sec!

UA is more an offensive cooldown than a defensive one. 20% more armor is more significant to a DPS DK in danger of getting mob/random cleaved than it is as a damage reduction for a geared tank because of how Armor works.

Idk why you keep putting in parenthesis (god talent) (omg amaze talent) (powerful). The 20% strength sterroid is not important to you as a DK tank unless its for threat. But then why would you use it for threat when its detrimental to actually cast because it requires a frost rune??????? You would be better off Icy Touch x2 than UA -> Icy Touch.

I think you are not playing death knight, you are talking to what you hear from left to right. You don't read the talent tree completely
First of all, vampiric blood is not a defensive skill, but a skill based on replenishing life by dealing blood damage, this is not a tank, like an OFF healer, let the healers do the job. There is enough Recovery already. Precious stones do work.

Improved Blood Presence %15 Hp for 10sec? (what is this lol)

I don’t think YOU are playing death knight. It sounds like you haven’t read a talent tree AT ALL - can’t even name the spell correctly.

Vampiric Blood
“Temporarily grants the Death Knight 15% of maximum health and increases the amount of health generated through spells and effects by 35% for 10 sec. After the effect expires, the health is lost.”

15% bonus max health means more use out off Will of the Necropolis, more healing off % based heals, and more EHP.
Plus 35% more SELF HEALING, which means LESS healing NEEDED = DEFENSIVE CD

You keep talking about your experience vs facts. Well your experience is very inexperienced, since you don’t talk about ANY boss fights, and you base your argument a lot on a healer’s experience healing a DK? Can you give examples? How far have you gone? Gunship? and you going to write a guide?

What have you healed? Where are your characters. I have played DPriest/Hpriest, Rdudu, Rsham, and Hpala and let me tell you, it is a PLEASURE having a blood dk in my raid. Not only do they raise the DPS of the raid significantly with double raid buffs and HoW, they make healing EASY. IDK where you are getting this information about BDK’s taking a lot of damage. BDK’s simply DEATH STRIKE for 9-15k hp after they take a chunk of damage, thus effectively reducing the damage they take by that amount, whilst your Frost DK is reducing what? A very tiny <=3 amount of damage

BDK’s mean that as a healer, I can save mana, stress less, and focus on the entire raid rather than tunnel pumping someone who should be taking less damage than more damage.

[Persivaln]

Get ready @Levvy, he's going to call you "noob 13yo kid" and say that HIS experience is only true one. Because it is HIM who came up to this amazing talent build and we can't even think on our own and stick to old useless build
FROST IS SLOW AND TANKING, DON'T EVEN ARGUE, IT IS AS I SAY, ABU-BABU-BUUU!

[KiTaRo54]

Honestly, don’t even know where to begin, every post made by you has so much misinformation and delusional beliefs it’s too much to comprehend.


Meanwhile, Blood DK has Will of the Necropolis 15% damage reduction WHENEVER you are below OR get hit in an attack that would take you below 35% (Which in ICC is ANYTIME you are at like 20k hp (min for around 55k hp tank, 5.5k gs tank, keeping in mind min health is also raised by synergy of vampiric blood BTW)

I can’t emphasize how BUSTED this talent is. It means you effectively have that 15% damage reduction for any and every meaningful attack received. Meaning it’s not only in effect at 35% hp but also at 50%, 65%. It’s pretty much always active unless you are at 100%, at which case you don’t need healing anyway

Meanwhile frost dk gets what? 2% more damage reduction while at 100%? Playing your spec, you are choosing to basically take 13% more damage on most 2nd or third boss melee swings, but also whenever that damage actually is a threat to your life.

Where is your common sense man?



Acclimation is horrible. You put 3 talent points deep into Frost Tree to get a 30% chance upon taking elemental damage to gain 50 resistance to that damage type stacking to 150, each phase of the buff lasting 12 seconds before dropping off. 1 tick. This is such a useless talent because it is unreliable, too slow, and redundant.

The only time you need this much resistance (maybe) is for large amounts of magic damage, which in ICC is often infrequent and bursty, but with this talent, you have to TAKE THE DAMAGE FIRST (LOL) then get a 30% chance to get 50 resistance. But why would you ever need this when DK has the strongest built-in answer to this AT YOUR LEISURE. It’s called ANTI-MAGIC SHELL, every DK SPEC HAS IT, and comically - USING AMS almost always will cause Acclimation to drop, thus encouraging you to not use AMS because you will LOSE YOUR STACKS.



This macro is clinically ******ed.

I mean you can’t even clarify with your clarification of how or when to use this? Is this your opener?

Why do you cast Bloody Fury AFTER you cast Icy Touch?

Bind Icy Touch to ERW? Why? So you can cast Icy Touch while ERW is on cooldown for 5 minutes? Really dude? You bind Icy Touch to ERW? Not Death Strike, or idk, maybe Death Strike, or maybe Death Strike? 0 Sense.



UA is more an offensive cooldown than a defensive one. 20% more armor is more significant to a DPS DK in danger of getting mob/random cleaved than it is as a damage reduction for a geared tank because of how Armor works.

Idk why you keep putting in parenthesis (god talent) (omg amaze talent) (powerful). The 20% strength sterroid is not important to you as a DK tank unless its for threat. But then why would you use it for threat when its detrimental to actually cast because it requires a frost rune??????? You would be better off Icy Touch x2 than UA -> Icy Touch.



I don’t think YOU are playing death knight. It sounds like you haven’t read a talent tree AT ALL - can’t even name the spell correctly.

Vampiric Blood
“Temporarily grants the Death Knight 15% of maximum health and increases the amount of health generated through spells and effects by 35% for 10 sec. After the effect expires, the health is lost.”

15% bonus max health means more use out off Will of the Necropolis, more healing off % based heals, and more EHP.
Plus 35% more SELF HEALING, which means LESS healing NEEDED = DEFENSIVE CD

You keep talking about your experience vs facts. Well your experience is very inexperienced, since you don’t talk about ANY boss fights, and you base your argument a lot on a healer’s experience healing a DK? Can you give examples? How far have you gone? Gunship? and you going to write a guide?

What have you healed? Where are your characters. I have played DPriest/Hpriest, Rdudu, Rsham, and Hpala and let me tell you, it is a PLEASURE having a blood dk in my raid. Not only do they raise the DPS of the raid significantly with double raid buffs and HoW, they make healing EASY. IDK where you are getting this information about BDK’s taking a lot of damage. BDK’s simply DEATH STRIKE for 9-15k hp after they take a chunk of damage, thus effectively reducing the damage they take by that amount, whilst your Frost DK is reducing what? A very tiny <=3 amount of damage

BDK’s mean that as a healer, I can save mana, stress less, and focus on the entire raid rather than tunnel pumping someone who should be taking less damage than more damage.

Nonsense from someone who has never played a tank ... My health does not drop below 35%. I don't need a blood talent. Maybe I can think of it when tanking LK with a 6.7k gear score. Thanks for the bull****.

Also the ice touch macro is correct. The skills below work when the cd time comes.

[angrylol]

Yeah, you can tank with any spec, since you are so dense that game just gives you random -50% damage taken passive.

You actually saying that

/cast icy touch
/cast empower rune weapon

is useful in any way? Do you think you should just use whatever is off cooldown or whats the deal? Did you even read what Empower Rune Weapon spell does?

What's the strongest boss you have tanked? I bet it was PoS and you wiped on Turdlord and called your healer 13 yo kid.

[Beanlord]

...Will of the Necropolis 15% damage reduction WHENEVER you are below OR get hit in an attack that would take you below 35%...

It doesn't and shouldn't trigger if you're already below 35%. It works if you're at 35% or a hit takes you below 35%.

[Plsno]

Best death knight tank video. All three specs explained.
Thank me later.
https://youtu.be/989-7xsRLR4

[KiTaRo54]

Yeah, you can tank with any spec, since you are so dense that game just gives you random -50% damage taken passive.


/cast icy touch
/cast empower rune weapon

is useful in any way? Do you think you should just use whatever is off cooldown or whats the deal? Did you even read what Empower Rune Weapon spell does?

What's the strongest boss you have tanked? I bet it was PoS and you wiped on Turdlord and called your healer 13 yo kid.

You actually saying that

Frost tank I didn't invent.
http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=325582

hello kid. I recommend you to read and learn. I do not take into account what you wrote. You don't know dk.

[KiTaRo54]

Nonsense from someone who has never played a tank ... My health does not drop below 35%. I don't need a blood talent. Maybe I can think of it when tanking LK with a 6.7k gear score. Thanks for the bull****.

Also the ice touch macro is correct. The skills below work when the cd time comes.

Frost tank is not my invention, I shared my talent because I liked it. The detailed review of the subject is here.
http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=325582)

[Persivaln]

All we saying is that YOUR build is not a tank, but a joke.
Frost tank does exist, but it's mote niche thing, while Blood is powerhorse that can do any boss fight without efforts.
Your position is ignorant punk who don't even read answers of other ppl, but just keeps headbutting with stupid idea.
Even if we all somehow get a chat in discord with streaming stats of each spec, all you gonna do will be screaming in mic till everybody else leaves channel - i.e. "admitting" that you were right and we are lowly maggots before DK god of yours

[angrylol]

You actually saying that

Frost tank I didn't invent.
http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=325582

hello kid. I recommend you to read and learn. I do not take into account what you wrote. You don't know dk.

And where in that guide it recommends resetting 1 Frost rune with ERW right after your first IT, how is that a good strategy? Why do you avoid to answer?
Why do you avoid to answer by how much Unbreakable Armor reduces physical damage on your current Armor value?
Why do you avoid to answer by how much 150 resistance reduces magical damage on you?
What's the point of converting all 6 runes to Death Runes?

If you actually had learned something from that guide, I'd say "yea Frost tank is not that great, but you can make it work, thumbs up if that's your jam, expect it to be hard to get in raids tough, even with proper Frost tank", as long as you don't try to pull wool how great it is. But that abomination you posted is nowhere in that guide. Your tank spec and macros is nowhere near already low power of proper Frost Tank.

You, as a proper adult with your mature behaviour still go sticking fingers in your ears and going "NANANANA" every time someone asks a question or tries to explain how tanks work. I understand you might have some developmental issues or whatever, that's alright, but try to answer my questions, without feeling insulted or demeaned. Just purely look at facts and numbers. For now you have not discussed a single question or thing you said, with you it's like this:
- "frost tank gud"
- "why?"
- "because frost is tank, kid"
- "yes, but why it's good?"
- "Frost is tanking spec, you don't know DK"
- "what do I don't know, what exactly I'm getting wrong"
- "when you are tanking, Frost talents are good for it, here is a link" (links proper Frost tank guide, which you have learned nothing from(if you even read it) and made a joke of a Frost tank)

Explain how is your build good, that's all we are asking here. Give us one boss which your build is perfect for. One boss in whole game.

[Blind]

Maybe I can think of it when tanking LK with a 6.7k gear score. Thanks for the bull****.

A DK Tank is "bis" around 6.3k gearscore. Niche cases can bump themselves up to 6450ish, but beyond that you're obviously using bad gear. Using Shadowmourne to bump you to 6.7 means you're gimping your ehp massively, just because you think it looks cool.

Here's a small hint for you: DK-Tank weapon of choice is called Cryptmaker. Doubt you can figure out why tho.