Realms A different type of Cross-realm

[dccct]

I agree with this, however this usually arent the situations people complain about. The real issue people are having is when they are the one who plays better and put more time into their character, but simply still get outgeared because despite putting more time into their character, the worse playing enemy has enough of a gear advantage through the different ways of getting geared to still win. For example getting to a blackrock starter gear level on lordaeron requires a lot more time and effort than getting to 6k on blackrock. But beating a 6k arena team as 5.5k arena team requires you to be playing a lot better. If you just play a bit better and then inevitably lose, I can see why people get frustrated over that.

The grind to 5.5k GS is not so bad. It is roughly 2 months of arena farming plus winning the daily Random Battleground everyday. I did this on multiple alts. If you have full Relentless, Wrathful offset pieces, and the Battered Hilt weapon plus some vendor trinkets, you will be at around 5.6k GS, which is roughly on par with Blackrock starter gear. Beyond that, Blackrock player must donate or reach certain ratings to obtain better weapon and items, whereas players on realms with access to PVE content can grind their way to a lot of ilvl 264+ weapons and gear. I am not convinced that Blackrock players have any lasting advantages over players from PVE realms, at least in the context of the arena. In fact, I think it is easier to argue the exact opposite.

[Lonelywolf]

I agree with this, however this usually arent the situations people complain about. The real issue people are having is when they are the one who plays better and put more time into their character, but simply still get outgeared because despite putting more time into their character, the worse playing enemy has enough of a gear advantage through the different ways of getting geared to still win. For example getting to a blackrock starter gear level on lordaeron requires a lot more time and effort than getting to 6k on blackrock. But beating a 6k arena team as 5.5k arena team requires you to be playing a lot better. If you just play a bit better and then inevitably lose, I can see why people get frustrated over that.

I guess its time to put less time to gear up and go play on Icecrown or blackrock ? I think Lordareon is meant for those who enjoy PvE and raiding on a slow pace, not for pvpers.

[Drunkuser]

As I've said in a different thread, amount of effort is irrelevant - or at least it should be for people truly interested in competing. Complaining that someone else got it easier is a cop out. If you fight someone with the same gear as you and you're better, you will win; if they are better, you will lose. How they got the gear won't change that, the effort you put in your gear won't save you if they are better.

But thanks for exemplifying what I said here: people would turn it off just to avoid the competition.

How someone got the gear matters, matters a lot, for a lot of people.
I would rather be a 4k gs lordaeron and fight a 6k gs lordaeron, rather than be a 6k gs lordaeron and fight a 6k gs icecrown.

It's not about winning or competition, it's about the joy of playing the game like it is supposed to be and the immersion, which is ruined. Like someone else said, 3 different philosophies which are not compatible at all and should not be mixed.

[dccct]

How someone got the gear matters, matters a lot, for a lot of people.
I would rather be a 4k gs lordaeron and fight a 6k gs lordaeron, rather than be a 6k gs lordaeron and fight a 6k gs icecrown.

It's not about winning or competition, it's about the joy of playing the game like it is supposed to be and the immersion, which is ruined. Like someone else said, 3 different philosophies which are not compatible at all and should not be mixed.

I find this interesting. I think when you say you would rather be a 4k GS fighting a 6k GS, you are saying that with the understanding that some day, you will have 6k GS, and then it will be your turn to farm the 4k GS players. I am not passing judgement on you. I understand that feeling, and I have friends who expressed exactly that, though more explicitly. By leveling the playing field in terms of gear level, Warmane has taken away the ability for players to build up advantages through hard work, which arguably, has always been part of WoW. Perhaps "self-determination", i.e., the ability to opt-in or opt-out of cross-realm, is the only solution. But in order to allow high GS players to face low GS players, the bracket system must also be removed, or better yet, made optional. Now suppose we have cross-realm, brackets, and mercenary mode all as togglable options for each player, it is not hard to see how this could quickly become an implementation nightmare and the resultant player pools (up to 2^3 = 8 in this case) may each be too small for arena or battlegrounds. While I am sympathetic to your position, I don't see a good solution to this problem.

[Allylilith]

The grind to 5.5k GS is not so bad. It is roughly 2 months of arena farming plus winning the daily Random Battleground everyday. I did this on multiple alts. If you have full Relentless, Wrathful offset pieces, and the Battered Hilt weapon plus some vendor trinkets, you will be at around 5.6k GS, which is roughly on par with Blackrock starter gear. Beyond that, Blackrock player must donate or reach certain ratings to obtain better weapon and items, whereas players on realms with access to PVE content can grind their way to a lot of ilvl 264+ weapons and gear. I am not convinced that Blackrock players have any lasting advantages over players from PVE realms, at least in the context of the arena. In fact, I think it is easier to argue the exact opposite.

I never said the grind to 5.5k gs is hard, but it takes a lot longer than nothing. I have a char on blackrock with probably only a few days of playtime and still on 6k+. On lordaeron I have a 6.7k warri and 6.3k dk who both have rival (nothing to be proud of, but it shows that I played some arena on them). I guess no server has lasting advantages over another, however we cannot just ignore how a few months of effort on one server equal to one mouseclick on another. Or how getting bis geared on icecrown is ridiculously easy compared to blackrock or lordaeron even without donating.

[Allylilith]

I guess its time to put less time to gear up and go play on Icecrown or blackrock ? I think Lordareon is meant for those who enjoy PvE and raiding on a slow pace, not for pvpers.

Lordaeron is for players who want a blizzlike experience with challenging content to not get bored of rushing the same raid every week without effort. PvP is part of a blizzlike experience. I know quite a few other players who play a lot or only pvp on lordaeron, but only those who are also part of the core of one of the best guilds actually stand a chance of being competitive in crossrealm pvp. Spending months farming gear, which icecrown and blackrock players get for no or close to no effort is still more fun than having to put up with the *****s who dominate the community on icecrown, so I am gonna pass on a server switch. I have the gear on lordaeron anyways, so it doesnt really concern me, but I had to point the invalidity of that initial argument out.

[dccct]

I have a char on blackrock with probably only a few days of playtime and still on 6k+.

How are you able to gear up so quickly? As far as I know, to get above 6k GS on Blackrock requires you to either purchase gear with coins or arena points.

I guess no server has lasting advantages over another, however we cannot just ignore how a few months of effort on one server equal to one mouseclick on another. Or how getting bis geared on icecrown is ridiculously easy compared to blackrock or lordaeron even without donating.

We can indeed ignore the fact that Blackrock players get 5.5k GS by default, because there is no meaningful way to compare the different gearing paths and availability of contents on different realms, not to mention everyone has the freedom to reroll on any realm at any time. It is a matter of preference, and it is not like there are no advantages to playing on Icecrown or Lordaeron other than to grind endgame content (e.g., farming, world PVP... etc). Some may argue that Blackrock players should start with full Furious gear instead of Relentless, and I tend to agree. Perhaps that would be a good compromise.