Good inputs. The more minds we can get involved, the better.
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Member
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Member
A lot has been discussed about this issue since this topic has been opened. And we have a Moderator joined here, which is lovely. Hoping for some real talk and find a real solution, for our problem that has bothered all of us here, which will lead us to positive changes.
Thanks to all of you for your thoughts on this issue, in other words, what is suggested - is to make a surrender solution, leaving without "Deserter" etc...
BUT all of you are discussing solutions that will not do any better than we have already.
Got some questions for your provided solutions and other unnecessary information, which has spammed this Thread up...
The "Leaving without deserter" solution: What does this give? After you leave the BG, you can easily be "sucked" back in the same BG u just left. AND it doesn't change the fact, that you will stay play versus Premades as a solo player..
Conceding solution: Same issue... You are NOT AVOIDING the MAIN issue - Solo players are still playing versus premade...
What I personally mentioned at the head of the topic is: Create a solution where Solo Que people (max 5 ppl grp) play versus the same Solo queue (5 ppl groups max) and premade can play versus premade.
So, please re-read the issue which is mentioned on the top of FIRST page of this Topic for normal further discussion here. Not just mentioning solutions that do not solve the MAIN problem...
Sincerely...
Thanks for reading..
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Moderator
People aren't ignoring the so-called main "problem," just offering things they believe might mitigate it when considering that maybe nothing is going to be done directly to neuter something that is just a part of the game, and in no way illegal. Unfair and unbalanced perhaps, but in a environment that never pretended to be fair or balanced in the first place.
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Member
Exactly, what we have tried to say before getting in that spiral of explanation and denial. (meant for in a environment that never pretended to be fair or balanced in the first place.).
Second what is exactly the main issue, because so far as i understand, its people not wanting to face premade groups alone. - we gave you a solution to that, party up. We were nicely explained that partying seems to be not an option for you guys. And that because we choose to party up we should only meet people that party up as a solution to that "MAIN" issue you seem to have.
Then came surrender and all other nonsense that actually would harm the pvp community even more.
The real problem in my understanding is just people and their different understanding about how things "should" , "must" or do work. Can't you folks enjoy the game as it is, after all you came ot a what 10-11 old year expansion. This is the game in all its glory. You came to this, why would you believe changing it will resolve in something good, when you came for this experience?
Oh and lastly, because i really want to say this: Solo Que people (max 5 ppl grp) WUT? My understanding is that a premade group ranges from 2 to whatever number of people are allowed to queue up for any battleground. As in a Pre-made, made before the activity its doing.
Conclusion: There is no issue on that front, there are multiple issues in this game and this expansion but playing at a disadvantage because you refuse to party up (PRE-MADE as in the so called premades you are referring to), well thats by design! I rest my case. Oh and here is a solution for you: become a better you, don't try to change the world, change yourself. All good things start from there.Edited: March 9, 2021 Reason: Few typos, i am a tard :D
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Member
Picking a particular expansion to play in, even if it is your favorite, doesn't mean you accept that absolutely everything in it is awesome and nothing should work differently. No?
Also at sewwerew, it goes without saying, that after requeing you shouldn't be placed in the same BG, otherwise it beats the purpose, doesn't it?
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Member
The solution you offered is excellent, and there has been a few variations of it in the Suggestions & Changes sub-forum. You are correct that much of what has been said is off-topic, and has failed to directly address the solution/problem as outlined in your original post. I will briefly explain why has happened.
What happened here (and what typically happens in arguments in general), is that the two sides never agreed to a mutually acceptable set of premises or terms (as in the definition of words and phrases). Premises are by definition assumptions that cannot (or does not require to) be proven. You can argue over the validity of premises, but it can quickly turn into a philosophical discussion about ethics and morals (if you are lucky). The discussion can be rewarding because it allows you to better understand your opponents' viewpoints, strengthens your own, and may even help you and your opponents find common ground.
However, it often doesn't turn out this way, so instead of beating a dead horse and having to watch endless rehash of the same arguments, some of us decided to move the discussion along by offering competing solutions or solutions to auxiliary problems not directly addressed in your original post. I am guilty for doing both of the above, and I apologize for doing so.
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Forum Veteran
It's not really a problem, four guys have a problem understanding that it's designed that way, carefully and purposefully. Solo players get matched against premades, that's intended. Yes it sucks to get stomped, go and do something about it in game instead of asking to punish players who are playing game fairly and same way anyone can. And yes, seperating premades from other players would be a punishement for doing MMO things in MMO. When you create Raid group, it says right there "Raid groups are made to overcome challenges otherwise impossible to achieve". If you don't do that, join as solo then you might get decimated and it will seem impossible, as it should. Where does it say that you will have 50/50 to win or why would you assume that? If you want "balance" and whatever, go Arena or find another game where BGs have mmr or such systems. Dudes even made brackets, so [if]you get matched against premades only when you have gear.
What I suspect happened here is players got comfy in low bracket, crossed threshold and got hit by roflstomp bat in high bracket. So "premades everywhere" for them, have to call fun police.
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Member
We can't seriously be naive enough to act like it's just "four guys" that have a problem with this. If we're being honest, there's a ton of people out there that, unfortunately, find visiting the forums too much of a hassle. We don't know which side outnumbers the other. This isn't a **** measuring contest.
"Being designed in a certain way" isn't necessarily "being designed in the best way". Bad design decisions do happen, and that's what this forum section is for, and furthermore that's why games' design change over time, patch by patch. The argument "it was designed this way therefore it's not a problem and should never change" is a weak argument at best.
On the other hand, "seperating premades from other players would be a punishement for doing MMO things in MMO" and "Raid groups are made to overcome challenges otherwise impossible to achieve" are better arguments. But, if that's the case then why stop at BGs? Let's apply your logic to all instances and see where it gets us: Shouldn't it mean the pugging with RDF should get you wiped every time, unless you premake a good dungeon group? (which I would be fine with, I never much liked RDF anyway, but hey...) Should we buff the difficulty everywhere to the point where it's impossible for people to deal with content and essentially force them to make premades despite the game offering a soloq option?
The point is, soloq option does exist, as does queing with a premade. Arguing that one should be viable and one shouldn't is essentially arguing that putting soloq option in the game in the first place was a bad design decision. But why not remove it altogether and be done with it? Because "it's an option the game gives you"? If that particular option is practically useless, it's not a real option now is it?
You see the contradiction here? Either a game option should be viable or it's meaningless. It's like the useless specs in various expacs that are as good as non-existent.
And at the end of the day which do we think is more likely? that the devs allowed you to que in BGs as a group because what kind of ***** would deny you to play with your friends? Or did they think "let's give them a way to flood the servers with premades that will a) obliterate every random BG denying the soloq players their fun, and b) render the soloq option non-viable?"
Nobody said you should stop communicating with your friends with voip while playing a BG. What is being said is that if you want to use this advantageous position then the fair thing would be to be matched against people that opt to do the same. Simple enough, isn't it?
Let's draw an analogy to your logic. What you're saying is that if steroids that give you superhuman athletic skills were officially allowed in sports events. Then we would ask athletes to come sign up for the event checking a box saying "I want to participate on steroids" or "I want to participate while not on steroids" but *then*, we would randomly pair them in a way where a non-steroid athlete could end up against a steroid athlete and then tell him "it's your fault that you lost for not taking your steroids". Well, yes, that would be *technically*correct, but is it *really* when we gave him a non-steroid option in the first place? (This is the point where someone will "smartly" say that "you're comparing real life stuff with a game" but, no, this is not what I'm doing. I'm showcasing a fault in a line of reasoning which can be applied to anything and is no more logical irl than it is in a game.)
That is why we're "calling for the fun police". And what I suspect is happening here is premade people who got comfy beating the crap out of soloq are now sweating over the possibility that *if* premades got matched against premades (or something), they would now have to spend their energy winning the hard way by getting even better (instead of using their energy to create the premade).
Sorry about the short essay but this is the kind of reasoning that has gotten so deeply engraved in people's minds that it requires to go into some length to refute.
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Moderator
Well, as the thread creator requested for the thread to get back on the main topic - separating solos and premades - and further responses have been aligned with that, I am able to close this thread, since we currently have no intentions of implementing such separation.
