I too agree on the fact that double resets burned out a lot of people, it was really noticeable after two months the majority of the players had given up.
In my opinion a held poll among the frostmourne/WOTLK community would be an awesome way to get free feedback so you can improve the next round and make it hold it's popularity longer.
Couple of topics that easily come to mind and could be voted upon:
* Double resets back to single reset, adding increased loot percentages or a chance for an additional piece of loot the further the expansion progresses so you get a catch up system;
* Different tier periods, naxx shorter, Ulduar longer, ToC shortest and ICC longer again;
* More interesting difficulty increase, add mechanics that break up the rotations of people so it just doesn't become a DPS race but also a reaction game;
Ofc you are as Warmane free to do whatever you like, it's just a tip as a player with love for the server after all.
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Moderator
A poll like that would be a sham and without value. Seriously, what player would vote "no" for "do you want easier loot?" Might as well ask who wants free coins too. The "no" would be just trolls from other servers.
Now this, this is something refreshing. In a sea of suggestions that essentially get down to "more loot, less effort," this doesn't ask for less effort, just for it to be less intensive than the double reset. That's something to get behind. What sort of compromises like that would be acceptable, where loot drops as normal without any tweak to rates whatsoever, and the resets are a middle-ground between once and twice? A shorter cycle like Marxman says? An alternating of single/double resets maybe, so there is intensive work, but with a break in-between? Not saying anything would happen, but it would be something I could support.
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Member
All fine and dandy, I agree it should be a fair change that does not make loot any easier to obtain.
Essence of the message was, to propose some changes to the community (like boss encounters, release schedule, crossfaction RDF, etc.) so you can start the new round with something fresh that draws players back in. The proposed changes would all be agreed upon by the Warmane Staff before they are suggested of course. Feel free to do whatever you like with the suggestions, it's 100% your own server!
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Moderator
I focused on the double-reset/loot part because it's what seems to be the major common point. But sure.
- Different periods/schedule: this instantly clashes with the reason people gave for wanting more loot when I argued that you can still complete content without an all-stars geared team... that the more casual players would be left behind. Making some phases last less because many people finish them faster would mean casuals that are catching up would be even further left behind, as a phase they didn't finish is already over. If the concern for casuals is real, it should be applied to this the same.
- Adding mechanics: that would be going into custom mechanics, which I don't think is the purpose of the server. Bloating values serves to "increase the difficulty," without making it not be Wrath of the Lich King anymore.
- Cross-faction RDF: I don't see the point. Reduce wait times? That wouldn't happen. There being way less Tanks and Healers than DDs is something that happens with both factions. You would just get a much larger pool of DDs competing for a, sure, larger pool of Tanks and Healers, but not in a way that would now balance anything.
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Member
People don't want to remove double reset to get more or easier loot. That whole more loot concept is only being thrown around here because if the server lifecycle remains the same, then there is no way people would clear content or gear up in time for next patches. I personally would take the removal of double reset at the expense of longer patches and zero modifications of drop rates of items.
Here's why:
The main reason for removing the double reset is the amount of raiding you have to do to stay ahead of the curve. It mattered very little through Naxx and Ulduar where 10man content is reduced to pointless vanity or the very least is not a "do or die" requirement. That all changes in ToC, albeit a short raid, there is now two difficulties. The 10man heroic now drops items equivalent or in some cases rivaling 25man normal drops. This combined with the fact that everyone needs emblems really ramps up your average raiding requirements in a single week. At this point to stay competitive, you need to do it as opposed it being optional. Overall, this is an awesome part of the expansion, but doing all of it twice over a 7 day period over 2 months is truly a lot. Only saving grace for ToC is that there is no trash and only 5 bosses.
ICC is where it hits the fan entirely. Without 10mans you can forget pushing 25man content. This is all from a perspective of a semi-hardcore guild that definitely is not in any title races, just a mix of guys who had done all this content years ago and some decent new-comers doing it for the first time ever. Here is how the raid schedule looked like for nearly two months:
Monday: 10man
Tuesday: 25man progression
Wednesday: 10man
Thursday: 25man clear out
<<reset>>
Friday: 10man
Sunday: 25man with limited progression and clear out
At some point, RS enters the game too. Eventually, we have sacrificed one of the 10man raids over the longer reset. This left us with 5 raiding days per week. When we were raiding on retail, such a schedule would definitely be attributed for the more competitive guilds. Which is ironic, because on Frostmourne it's considered casual. There are guilds that spend even more time to progress. That is a lot of raiding.
Overall, this pace leaves very time for anything else the game has to offer. People commit themselves to a near 20 hour per week raiding schedule and eventually burn out and lose interest. We've seen the server population drop steadily since Naxx and even the hype train that is ICC was not enough to spark some life into it. Meanwhile, Icecrown is as prosperous as ever, existing in the single reset model. That cannot be a coincidence.
To summarize, people who have stuck around all this time love the progressive aspect of the server or the very least would prefer it over a continuous 3.3.5 patch like Icecrown for example. Giving people twice the amount of loot to facilitate a single reset model is not the answer. I believe there is a healthy compromise on how the next iteration of Frostmourne can look. I think longer patch cycles instead of double reset is a lesser evil.
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Moderator
I know and understand why people didn't enjoy the double reset, but you have to admit every single call for that came with an attached "and increase the loot instead." I rebutted the claim that it wouldn't then be enough time for people to gear with the fact not every single person has to be fully geared for guilds to complete content - which the one bringing up agreed - but then it was turned into "think about the casuals," which is fine, even if I don't believe that's a broad concern shared by all dreaming of more loot.
Increasing the length of the cycle might be something that isn't even on the table, I don't know. My OCD definitely appreciates the tidy and clean one-year duration. I found that tidbit hidden in Marxman's post, going for a compromise on resets, without radically changing the model of the server, to be the most balanced.
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Member
Im really amazed by your hypothetis about whats good and whats not .. but i have only one question is there any date and hour of reseting server? tbh im not some hardcore player and i fell behind after few weeks of frostmourne but i would like to get another chance and stasrt from beggining... ands as i can see most discussed topis is raid resets... there is pletny of time for every one to reach that level with one reset .. two resters only discourage less experenced people to play the game :)
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Member
I think this is primarily because people want to preserve the fast-paced nature of the server, which was really fun. The problem is that the double reset forces literally double the work to achieve that rapid pace. People want the rapid pace without the slave-like raiding requirement... and the only realistic way to accomplish that is to increase loot drops.
As much as I like the idea of a 5-day reset for pacing, it would be a nightmare to keep track of what resets when, and would still be a very high-demand raiding schedule... just not absurd like double reset has been.
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Then we get to a "wanna eat the cake and have it too" scenario.
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I don't think double loot is the only realistic way. There is no way to know how that will play out, but I feel like people would get geared too fast in this case. If anything, maybe a chance to drop additional loot would do it as a compromise. Like a 25-30% chance to get an additional item or something.
Also, all points brought up here are within that one year format. Like honestly, would it be so bad to have a server that lasts a little bit longer than a year? Or is there a rule engraved on a wall somewhere that all seasonal servers must be exactly one year in duration?
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They won't if the server also progresses through the content 2x times faster than intended.
I believe increased loot (not a chance of increased loot, but a guaranteed increased number of loot dropped) is the most optimal way to adjust to a fast paced content progression, without inventing doubtful strategies like double reset, which really discourage a lot of people.
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Member
So.... is what you're suggesting an even shorter server cycle time? In this case 6 months?
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Member
Hello,
In my opinion, Warmane should disable the second reset per week, like people said before, that's to much, it required to play like 4days / week.
About the gear, there is 2 options for me :
1) Increase drop loot, and the store will come like this year. It can be only 1 more item on each boss.
2) Don't increase drop loot, but open the store after each season (ex: naxxrams gear when ulduar release)
Warmane have to find a balance with how many time it take to get full gear items, and when the store open.
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Member
No, by "intended" I meant originally intended by Blizzard. Wotlk lifespan on retail lasted 2 years and a month (2 years and 25 days to be specific). Frostmourne lifespan is supposedly gonna be 1 year or so, so in this model it's progressing overall 2x times faster than intended.
I think it would be reasonable to adjust to a 2x faster content progression with a 2x increased drops. Well, maybe not exactly 2x, I'm not insisting on the actual multiplier numbers, but the idea itself is the best solution in my opinion.
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Moderator
The expansion's life cycle on retail included all the content hiatus where the current phase had been completed, but something new didn't come for months. It had nothing to do with essential amount of time for completion. Trying to use that as argument to justify increased drops is nothing but fallacious.
