PvE Option for Players

[nikoladze]

Hello dear Warmane Staff,

Recently I tried making a new character and level it up freshly on the Icecrown realm. While it was fun questing at start later on I stumbled upon one little issue - enemy players. Knowing I was playing on a PvP realm I decided to avoid contact in order to stay alive, but nontheless they did not think that way and I got killed. 20 times before they left my corpse. This was when I was still level 50 in a contested area. Anyways, I completed one quest after dying 22 times. Later on I leveled up to 60 and entered Outland and even had saved up money for flying! Yes! No more ganking! Well ... no ... Druids and Mages ... whole Honor Hold was flooded with Horde rogues and the questing areas were filled with 80lvls ... so ... after some mob farming I went to level with quests in the neighbouring zone and reached quite fast to level 68 (a horde player actually assisted me in making the Arena Quests). After that I went to Northrend and the same thing as Honor Hold applied here, but this time waaay more persistent. I got farmed for like 2 hours straight and when people came to help - three to four more Horde players came to farm and shame them ... In the end - I just stopped leveling.

Now for all of you who would say something like:
- You could've just switched zones - I did, but almost the same result after some time
- You could've just leveled up with RDF - I am a DPS and as such the queue time is huge (and you can't just force people to not quest)
- You could've switched to a different character - And then what? The point is making a character and level it up normally.

None of the listed above issues can be fixed with a measily ban on the players that harras and disrup gameplay ... Just let players have the freedom to level up undisturbed because I've seen this behaviour in both sides be it Alliance and Horde and although it is quite profitable for people to pay to level up instead of being shamed like that - I doubt that's the point of the realm ...

This did sound like a little rant but in my oppinion most players currently in Icecrown shouldn't be allowed to slay enemy players as they like. There are a lot of minuses on the PvE side of a realm like contesting resourses becomes hard, but I'd rather have my Iron Vein getting stolen than a 80lvl killing me for being near an Iron Vein ...

[Thorbjorn]

It's a PvP server, and this will never change.

[Persivaln]

It's a PvP server, and this will never change.

I'd dare to correct it. It is PvP server, and even if it will ever change, majority of players won't bother with it. They came to play game for specific content and maybe only 1% at max would start whining about it, other will continue their favourite (PvP or PvE) part of game.

[nikoladze]

It's a PvP server, and this will never change.

That sounds like something that needs to change tho. You can't just claim it as a PvP server and accept the consequences from that because of a bad community. When things go bad - ist'n it correct to fix something? I am not saying that the whole realm should be forced into PvE like that, but rather players should be able to pick whether or not they want to be corpse-farmed for someone else's pleasure. I don't know if you are aware of the differences between a PvP and a PvE realm but blindly accepting things as they are and just saying "No one will change that, deal with it" does sound as if you'd prefer it be like it is now. Imagine getting banned for 2 days. That's how being farmed for two days feels especially for new players who have absolutely no way of fighting back against people that are so overgeared that can solo a Heroic Dungeon.

I'm willing to bet that there are a LOT of people that don't want to be bothered while leveling and such a thing is missing here. New PvE realm would require a lot of resourses, but making a player a Neutral Faction would be quite easy. I don't mind people fighting outdoors, even still - I love when someone close to my level tries to duel me, but ... getting farmed by the same overgeared person for his own fun isn't enjoyable and is definatelly not what PvP battles should stand for.

[Obnoxious]

We aren't going to change any of our servers to PvE.

[nikoladze]

We aren't going to change any of our servers to PvE.

Oh well. Was worth the try. Guess no new players will play Icecrown realm then since there's no way for new players to "explore the game"

And I specifically said:

New PvE realm would require a lot of resourses, but making a player a Neutral Faction would be quite easy

because I am aware what I am saying. I never said to CONVERT the server into a PvE based. I suggested the implementation of a PvE option for players be it while they are leveling or for Achievement progression. Limitations should be applied as to "You are always in PvP if you enter enemy capitals" or something like "Resourse drops via gathering proffessions are lowered" but in general - one would pick this option to not get bullied. Such a price is trivial in comparison to the agony and anger you'd avoid.

[Obnoxious]

Guess no new players will play Icecrown realm then since there's no way for new players to "explore the game"

Thankfully we seem to have our fair share of much more resourceful players, old and new, who manage to reach level 80, despite it being a PvP server, by simply taking alternative routes. You know, like they did on retail PvP servers, where you also had gankers in certain regions, players in the same faction that helped fight them off, etc. You have nothing to worry about, but thanks for the concern.

[nikoladze]

Thankfully we seem to have our fair share of much more resourceful players, old and new, who manage to reach level 80, despite it being a PvP server, by simply taking alternative routes. You know, like they did on retail PvP servers, where you also had gankers in certain regions, players in the same faction that helped fight them off, etc. You have nothing to worry about, but thanks for the concern.

That's a very rude remark to make, knowing that there are more than 20 daily bans for disrupting gameplay. The struggle to level should come from the difficulty of undestanding where, how and when to level, not from where to go to not get killed by horde players. Some zones were flagged as dangerous before and people avoided it, but tell me, please oh wize one - how do you level up with quests without doing the quests? Ignoring half of the game experience because there is no other way to level up is plain ridiculous and you just stated that new players are FORCED to stuggle leveling up to level 80 because you don't want to limit how players behave and act.

It is well known by any WoW veteran and MMORPG game in general that initially the game is more difficult to grasp on and you'd want less trouble with players in order to understand how things work but as the game progresses - people have less things to do and more time to roam. The reason people farm others is because they ended their content progression, did all they saw as worthy and now just slay lowbies for fun. That wasn't present in retail or at least the amount was waaaay less.

I personally asked people to help me and they just gave up because my struggle to level up ended up forming an outdoor battleground for no reason that blocks the progression of all Alliance players near Honor Hold. Now is that something normal according to you? If you do think that this is normal - you are a bully. You feign ignorance towards people that try to enjoy the game and flat out disrespect and discriminate towards any pacifist player that does not want such a thing.

I don't know how many new players there are and I have no idea how you find out that the new players are actually NEW players instead of just returning players or banned ones making new accounts, but I dare say the current Icecrown boasts towards bullies and hate instead of PvP oriented realm. New players don't even know how to attack and have zero addons for your information. They don't even know about the forums. I know best as I tried recruiting people to play with me but after switching zones over and over again so that they can quest without getting killed by the enemy faction (as we tried both Alliance and Horde) - they simply went to a different realm.

Feel free to close the topic as there is no point in an argument where you'd just refuse to improve the leveling and gameplay of the players ...

[nikoladze]

My last reply did sound a bit offensive and I appologise if I hit a nerv, but one can't just compare old retail with the current content and claim that having the same options as before - now it is the same. People learn and change and eventually they reach a point where they know how the game works and where people level up. In retail people were farmed in the exact same places, but the quantity was less and the gear depenency was less.

I have no idea why the idea of someone being unkillable by the enemy faction induces such fear in you. Even if you make it so that this option is only valid for leveling up players - it would still be SOMETHING but you completely deny that possibility ...

[Obnoxious]

There's nothing to "improve." You are playing in a PvP server. This is all part of what happens in a PvP server. None of the bans you mention are about ganking, those are generally for people who join a dungeon in RDF and refuse to play it, demanding to get kicked out so they avoid the Deserter debuff. You saying I'm being "discriminatory" is comedy gold. You are expecting the server to change how it works because it doesn't match what you want? Calling me "rude" because I'm not patting your head and offering words of comfort, saying everything will be alright? Sorry, not gonna happen. We offer our servers as they are, if you don't like them it doesn't mean they are supposed to "improve," it means you either have to learn how to play in a PvP server or perhaps out servers just aren't for you as they aren't meant to be "safe spaces."

[nikoladze]

We offer our servers as they are, if you don't like them it doesn't mean they are supposed to "improve," it means you either have to learn how to play in a PvP server or perhaps out servers just aren't for you as they aren't meant to be "safe spaces."

So you're saying Warmane Staff is aware and that they intentionally aren't delivering anything for players who would like that "safe spaces" in order to level up because the idea of the server is to be a fearsome experience where you have to hide and cower in fear until you level up? Where your options are limited because of the community and server type? Where you either deal with it and corpse-run your way to max level via questing or do RDFs till max level or just quit the server?

This sounds kinda ... lacking. My appologies but as a Moderator - I think denying a lot of players isn't really helpfull for the server.

And I don't need a pat on the head from a mere Moderator ... disappointed.

[Obnoxious]

So you're saying Warmane Staff is aware and that they intentionally aren't delivering anything for players who would like that "safe spaces" in order to level up because the idea of the server is to be a fearsome experience where you have to hide and cower in fear until you level up? Where your options are limited because of the community and server type? Where you either deal with it and corpse-run your way to max level via questing or do RDFs till max level or just quit the server?

This sounds kinda ... lacking. My appologies but as a Moderator - I think denying a lot of players isn't really helpfull for the server.

Yes, I'm saying we have been hosting only PvP servers, and without interest of having a PvE one, for over 10 years now and have been doing perfectly fine. While you are entitled to have your own opinion about it being "lacking," I will just point at our success as a counterpoint and not bother with more, as there really isn't any need to dwell deeper.

And I don't need a pat on the head from a mere Moderator ... disappointed.

On this we agree. It feels like you need a much more maternal source for the head patting than I could ever be paid to provide.