Hey. I just created a custom build with t9 pieces, and I replaced the chest with http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50300 and the helm with http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50206, and the damage decreased as expected. This is because the 4pt9 set effect makes up for the stat difference. You can ignore the bonus set effect if you get one item with 251 ilvl or higher or two 245 ilvl items (e.g. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=47709 + http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=47688).
As for Rawr - here's a video you could find useful. Although I'm used to using Rawr for many things, I also recommend checking out the Wrath Classic sim. Imho, getting an opinion from two different sources can give you a better idea about whether a certain item would be an upgrade to you or not. Please keep in mind that the Ulduar items there are buffed (this is a custom change in comparison to retail WotLK). Anyway, if you want to use Rawr, please read this post, where I express my critique about this gearing tool.
My previous offer still stands if you're willing to share your armoury with us. I'd gladly check your gear and tell you what you could get next. If you do end up doing that, then please inform me whether you have a lot of points to spend (assuming you're playing on Icecrown) and/or whether or not you'd be willing to spend gold in buying BoEs. :)
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tnx alot! ah i forgot to post my armory lol
here you go https://armory.warmane.com/character...ecrown/summary
currently tankin some rhcs to get emblems so a lil bit of tank trinkets, got mirror of truth as dps. as for boes im pretty much so i wont be able to purchase mutli pieces.
in terms of points i ll prbbly will get a trinket out there (12 points rn so about a week)
-ps: when i change spec usin dual talent feature, my bear form action bar wont work, i mean when for example use demo roar on action bar1, it ll use my healing touch in humanform for somereason .. then i gotta relog for like 10times to fix it pretty annoyin in dungs
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Thanks for the background.
1) Yeah, as far as trinkets and the point shop go, I would support you with your decision to purchase Mjolnir. It's going to stick with you for a long time.
2) Tanking in dungeons is a good idea in order to get emblems fast. As you already understood, I'd recommend purchasing the 232 ilvl t9 set pieces and then the ring.
3) Wrist - first boss from pos hc as already stated.
4) Weapon - Marwyn in hor hc and then try to get the 2-handed weapon either from Twins 25 or from Anub 25. Both are good prior to ICC 10.
5) Second trinket - Banner of Victory as already stated.
6) If you can afford at least one BoE, I would recommend changing the boots. The trousers will be replaced either with emblems or, if you're really lucky, in VoA 10/25.
7) http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=49806 from the 2nd boss in fos hc.
After obtaining the aforementioned things, I would start attenting VoA 10/25, ToC 10/25, and Onyxia (mby). It's prolly obvious, but you should try to enter all weekly (quest) raids for EoFs There is also the WoW version of Oktoberfest taking place on warmane - you can get easy EoFs from that as well. I see that you're in a guild - if an officer forms gearing raids, do try to enter them.
I think the bug you're referring to might be similar to this. If not, you can create a bug report (check if someone already reported the issue you've mentioned).Edited: September 23, 2023 Reason: minor edits
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alright tyvm <3
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ey another question, today i got in a weird scenario when doin VOA,
so as usual ive done my opener -> SR/dots up and so on till somehow (during heroism) i got into a weird spot with 5cp/+8sec on SR,Rip when berserk was active (over like 70 energy), was thinkin that i should do shred as you suggested above but 1 shred aint enough to dump energy within a range which FB becomes viable, so i had to like 2-3 shreds (aka 3-5cps wasted) and if ive done FB i wouldve ****ed my energy for duration of berserk... im kinda lost rn on what wouldve been better to do there...
TL;DR: 2-3 shreds when cp capped on berserk vs FB (+60-70 energy)
PS: as for mjolnir does it have higher proc chance prior to needles? kinda weird that it sims higher with lower stats/arp
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If I understood you correctly, this occurred during Berserk. When it comes to opening with Berserk, I have observed two situations.
- SR-mid Berserk;
- FB-mid Berserk;
where the latter is only then viable if the player gets at least 2 CCs during Berserk as shown in this clip:
If I hadn't used FB and instead had resorted to spamming Shred, I wouldn't have been able to utilise all of my energy before Berserk would end which would have led to what happened here:
Here, it would have been better to cast FB at 0:16. Doing so, I would have dumped all of my CPs and would have been able to build them anew. Let's observe my energy with that play:
-> 63 - 18 (FB's initial cost halved by Berserk) - 30 (FB's second effect) = 15 energy
<GCD occurs, Berserk has 3 seconds left> (we regenerate 10 energy)
-> 25 - 21 (Shred's cost halved by Berserk) = 4 energy
<GCD occurs, Berserk has 2 seconds left> (we regenerate 10 energy)
-> we pool 7 energy
-> 21 - 21 (Shred's cost halved by Berserk) = 0
<GCD occurs, Berserk has 0.3 seconds left> (we regenerate 10 energy)
<Berserk ends, I am left with 13 energy and 3-4 CPs>
After Berserk, I would have cast Rake and reached 5 CPs, which I would have used to refresh Rip on time and get the DBW snapshot. In the second clip, I bit the dummy right before Berserk ended. The game rewarded me for doing that by giving me a CC proc a few moments later. W/o that CC proc, I would have cast Rip with a delay and would have missed out on snapshotting the bleed with DBW (+ potentially buffing the latter with Hysteria). In order to ensure that I would get at least 2 CCs during Berserk, I use Barkskin after refreshing Rip and casting 1-2 Shreds (I also avoid overcapping my energy by doing that). If there's a resto druid in the raid, you would also get more energy during Berserk.
If you are afraid that FB would **** up your energy during Berserk, then you can ignore the wasted CPs and refresh SR when it's about to expire (or whether you can go SR -> 2-3 Shreds for 4 CPs during Berserk). The good part about the "SR-mid Berserk" opener is that you don't have to refresh SR once you reach 5 CPs. I also tried to make sure to write it in the commentary under the opener:
Btw, if you had difficulties understanding the conditions for biting the boss during FB, then please let me know. I'm currently editing the guide, and I want to make everything as clear as possible for everyone.
I'd like to note that with "TF-Berserk" + "SR mid-Berserk" we kinda rely on CCs to generate the needed CPs for Rip after the last FB. I don't have this issue in my raids because I am a GotVV-shifter, and I can easily find ways to proc OoC if my AA-RNG is bad. Come to think of it, I might need to mention this potential drawback in the guide, so thanks for giving me food for thought.
Yes, Mjolnir does indeed have a higher proc chance in comparison to NES.PS: as for mjolnir does it have higher proc chance prior to needles? kinda weird that it sims higher with lower stats/arp
Edited: September 25, 2023 Reason: added the white text
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ive been doin the SR mid berserk rotation, but i messed up (got on wrong side of boss unable to shred) and energy went to moon.
ty as always! sry botherin you with stupid questions over and over :3
keep up good work :D
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Please, don't apologise for asking questions. That's the purpose of the guide after all.
Btw, I added this text in the previous comment:
I'd like to note that with "TF-Berserk" + "SR mid-Berserk" we kinda rely on CCs to generate the needed CPs for Rip after the last FB. I don't have this issue in my raids because I am a GotVV-shifter, and I can easily find ways to proc OoC if my AA-RNG is bad. Come to think of it, I might need to mention this potential drawback in the guide.
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tnx alot <3
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Small update.
Today I was in the mood to play around with the simcraft and test the proposed ICC haste BiS list for monocats with other variations. Before I say anything else, yes, I'm aware that I should have done that last year. Every bit of criticism I might get because of this would be well-deserved.
Tbh, there isn't much to be said. The only big change is the inclusion of http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=44472 instead of http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=55002. Rawr favours the latter enchant, but the simcraft shows higher numbers when I add 23 Haste. I figured that a compromise should be made, hence why I added it. Many people here know that I prefer Agility over Strength because I look at the mean values when comparing the damage output of our offensive abilities which is why I didn't change the Agility gems. Interestingly enough, the simcraft didn't favour the "100% haste" build, and you can see it in the following spoilers:
{Rawr} up until yday (HORDE) /~14,765.94 dps on average for a 3-min fight/Spoiler:Show
{Rawr} small variation (HORDE) /~14,769.4 dps on average for a 3-min fight/Spoiler:Show
{Rawr} currently in the guide (HORDE) /~14,773.96 dps on average for a 3-min fight/Spoiler:Show
{Rawr} ALTERNATIVE AGILITY-HASTE BUILD 1 (HORDE) /~14,771.63 dps on average for a 3-min fight/Spoiler:Show
{Rawr} ALTERNATIVE AGILITY-HASTE BUILD 2 (HORDE) /~14,770.5 dps on average for a 3-min fight/Spoiler:Show
{Rawr} ALTERNATIVE AGILITY-HASTE BUILD 3 (HORDE) /~14,771.88 dps on average for a 3-min fight/Spoiler:Show
{Rawr} 100% haste (HORDE) /~14,769.71 dps on average for a 3-min fight/Spoiler:Show {Rawr} up until yday (ALLIANCE)/~14,843.79 dps on average for a 3-min fight/Spoiler:Show
{Rawr} small variation (ALLIANCE)/~14,847.36 dps on average for a 3-min fight/Spoiler:Show
{Rawr} currently in the guide (ALLIANCE)/~14,852.17 dps on average for a 3-min fight/Spoiler:Show
{Rawr} NO RED AGILITY GEMS (ALLIANCE)/~14851.63 dps on average for a 3-min fight/Spoiler:Show
{Rawr} ALTERNATIVE AGILITY-HASTE BUILD 1 (ALLIANCE)/~14,852.07 dps on average for a 3-min fight/Spoiler:Show
{Rawr} ALTERNATIVE AGILITY-HASTE BUILD 2 (ALLIANCE)/~14,851.42 dps on average for a 3-min fight/Spoiler:Show
{Rawr} ALTERNATIVE AGILITY-HASTE BUILD 3 (ALLIANCE)/~14,851.64 dps on average for a 3-min fight/Spoiler:Show
{Rawr}100% haste (ALLIANCE)/~14,845.07 dps on average for a 3-min fight/{22/10/2023 Update} I decided to analyse more builds with varying amounts of haste in order to make things more transparent. My goal was to find clear tendencies, so that I could pinpoint the exact threshold when Agility is overshadowed by Haste. However, things became complicated after replacing http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=55002 with http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=44472 and testing +0 Haste, +10 Haste, +20 Haste, and +30 Haste. This is because RNG was inconsistent in the simulations. Like, there were more (un)favourable outcomes on some attempts than on others, which naturally decreased/increased the estimated dps. I'm not saying that the simcraft is bugged or anything, because it isn't. I am aware that its goal is to recreate actual games, where RNG wouldn't be manipulated. My issue is that it's not clear when the increase/decrease of the dps is caused by (un)fortunate RNG and when it's influenced by the varying Crit-Haste ratio. This is why I prefer to turn to Rawr because it calculates the damage based on the mean values of all factors, i.e. it equalises RNG. Since the simcraft showed more damage increase after I replaced http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=55002 with http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=44472, this is the only exception I'm willing to make from what Rawr suggests. After implementing that change, the results from the simcraft become vague, which is where Rawr steps in.Spoiler:Show
That said, I feel the need to point out how adding +0, +10, or even +20 Haste won't matter all that much at the end of the day. RNG decides how many CC procs a person gets from his AAs and WHEN. Though, I find it good that the simcraft also disproves the popular trend of going all-in on Haste. At least this tendency was observable more consistently.
Btw, I removed the Omen glyph and added the one for Rip in order to acknowledge a typical environment on warmane. All other settings were set to default. Yes, I also changed the duration of the fights (I observed 2 mins vs 3 mins vs 4 mins vs 5 mins) and the proposed gems and enchants in the guide outperformed other Haste-heavy builds.
Ahm, the gems for the Horde SAFE build got slightly updated. I removed two http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=40148 gems in favour of 1xhttp://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=40150 and 1xhttp://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=40125. Interestingly enough, Rawr agrees with this inclusion. Check this build with 2 glinting gems:
vs 1 deft and 1 rigid:
Edited: October 22, 2023 Reason: added more screenshots + changed the positions of some builds for better readability
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After reading the entire Witcher saga (incl. Season of Storms), I got motivation to work on the guide again. Before I start with the relevant subject, I'd like to comment what an amazing experience it was to follow Geralt in his journey. To the players, who have only played the Witcher games, I strongly recommend reading the books as well.
MONOCAT vs BEARWEAVING vs GOTVV-SHIFT
Although the current version of the simcraft doesn't feature bearweaving and the GotVV-shift, a few hours ago I found an older version which helped me compare the damage of those playstyles. Before I show you the screenshots, I want to mention a few things:
1) Props to the people, who worked on the feral simcraft and included all three playstyles;
2) Keep in mind that this is an older version of the simcraft, so it's not impossible for some inconsistencies to exist. Regardless, it can give us a rough idea of how the damage looks like.
3) The following talents and gemming options might not be optimised, but I will work on that the following days. Also, I purposely chose 10 seconds bite time for the bearweavers, and 6 for the GotVV-shift because those values generated the most damage.
4) "Flowerweaving" here is actually GotW with /stopattack. I realised that after checking the "timeline" in the "results" panel.
5) Hysteria was not included.120 seconds
Monocat
Spoiler:Show
GotVV-shift with /stopattack
Spoiler:Show
Mangleweaving
Spoiler:Show
Lacerateweaving
Spoiler:Show 150 seconds (here you can find the settings and the talents)
Monocat
Spoiler:Show
GotVV-shift with /stopattack
Spoiler:Show
Mangleweaving
Spoiler:Show
Lacerateweaving
Spoiler:Show 180 seconds
MonocatSpoiler:Show
GotVV-shift with /stopattack
Spoiler:Show
Mangleweaving
Spoiler:Show
Lacerateweaving
Spoiler:Show
The simcraft shows Lacerateweaving prevailing most of the time, followed by the GotVV-shift with /stopattack, Mangleweaving, and finally the monocat. Keep in mind that this regards linear, single-target fights. In boss encounters with incapacitation mechanics, with downtime phases or with constant target switching, the Lacerateweaver will have difficulties refreshing the bear bleed on time. Moreover, the bearweaver generates 1.5 times more threat than the GotVV-shifter:
bearweavingSpoiler:Show
GotVV-shift with /stopattackSpoiler:Show
This coupled with the fact that flowershifting is easier to pull off is the reason why I recommend the latter technique.Edited: October 26, 2023 Reason: added a bit more text and deleted redundant one
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(Let's do this one more time.)
The guide has been updated. Here's a list of the most important changes:
- added screenshots for the damage output of each feral cat playstyle in "Feral cat priority list 101" in order to showcase the damage increase from playing the cat unconventionally;
- fixed the gemming options for bearweavers and added more info in "Requirements".
Now, I'd like to comment on some changes and on some observations.
1) Bears profit more from Strength and not from Haste in ICC
Yes, shocker, I know. The thing which misled me was the information from Rawr. A few months ago, I created a bear build in that program, and it showed Haste increasing the damage of bears a lot more than Strength. You can see it in these screenshots as well:
The category which I followed was "Threat":Spoiler:Show
However, this turned out to be false lead. According to the simcraft, going full Strength offers more damage than Haste:Spoiler:Show
Spoiler:Show
2) The old simcraft sees undercapping stats as something detrimental, whereas both Rawr and the newest version show higher numbers
I observed that while testing the gemming options for the GotVV-shift. I decided to remove the "10 Hit, 10 Exp" gem in favour of something with more offensive stats, and the program showed lower numbers. At first, I thought I should trust it, but then I decided to test undercapping the Haste build for traditional cats. Why? Because the newest version shows higher numbers when Exp is undercapped, and I wanted to check if the old version would show the same tendency. It didn't:
Current version of the simcraft:
Spoiler:Show
Older version of the simcraft:
Spoiler:Show
Rawr:
As you can see, there are inconsistencies between the old and the current version of the simcraft. Since the newest version doesn't let me choose bearweaving and flowershifting for single-target boss encounters, I only use the old version of the simcraft to give me rough numbers when it comes to evaluating the traditional cat vs bearweaving vs flowershifting. For more precise gemming options, I will stick to Rawr. Yes, it doesn't acknowledge the latter playstyles, but knowing that Haste isn't good for them we can exclude those gems and use Agility/Strength instead.Spoiler:Show
Btw, I am aware that the current version of the simcraft allows us to create our own priority list if we go "Rotation" -> "APL":
and I understand that we can also compare all feral playstyles to each other in this tab, but I find it too hard to use, so I won't bother with it.
3) GotVV-shift in 10-man
Nothing much to say. According to the old simcraft, this playstyle beats the traditional cat even in a 10-man group regardless of gear:
Naxx:
Spoiler:Show
Uld:
Spoiler:Show
ToC:
Spoiler:Show
ICC and RS:
I won't talk about bearweaving being better than GotW in 10-man because I think it's obvious.Spoiler:Show
Before I end this post, I'd like to mention some final things:
- I don't consider the guide to be finished. Imho, some proper demonstration videos are needed for bearweaving, but I won't add them in the near future. My personal playstyle is GotVV-shift, and given the opportunity (there's another player in the grp that can provide the 5% melee crit) I always prefer it over anything else. IF I play on Onyxia one day, and IF I'm the only person who can provide that buff, I might record myself. This is not a promise.
- Speaking of Onyxia, I won't make a guide for Vanilla and TBC. kthx
- Currently, I'm inactive, but if I start playing one day on Lordearon/Icecrown, I am planning on adding a better video for /stopattack.Edited: October 29, 2023 Reason: correction about the haste gems concerning bear and Rawr
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