1. Assassin Rogue, Expertise Cap or no?

    Sup,

    kinda newish to Assa Rogue and i saw plenty of different people gemming different, aiming for different stats etc. So im wondering, whats correct and whats wrong? The guide states expertise cap should be reached, but its from 2016 so dont know if its actually outdated. i also met rogues who said **** expertise, since envenom cant be dodged/parried in the way that it still applies the buff and gives you back energy if it gets dodged/parried, so they just stack AP.

    personall, i went for expertise cap, even with gemming. should i stay this way, or focus just on Hit cap and pump into AP?

    Also, what best way is it to use combopoints in terms of Envenom? Do i want to have it up nearly 100%, even if i have to use Envenom at 3 Combopoints, or do i only Envenom at 4 or 5 Combopoints?
    Edited: August 11, 2022

  2. I can very clearly answer the last question about the 3 compoint Envnom. I did the math and calculate basicaly everything (the fact that higher combopoint may return you energy with higher chance, all the ability dmg, hom much envnom uptime you get, even the possibility of earning extra energy from the mutilate crit) for both talent variants with or without Relentless strike. I also tests my hypotesis in practise and my conclusion is going for 5 cp is better then use erly on 3 cp. Its not much tho, but it is still better. With 5 combopoints you sacrifice a little bit envenom uptime but the total dmg gain regarrd to larger Envenom hit wins. Also, if you are high geared rogue, it may happen that you are forced to overalp your Envenom buff during overkill buff (espetially during heroism/bloodlust) so improoving your Envenom uptime may cause that it will be wasted actually.

    It is good to know that there is a certain gear point (approx 6.2gs) when something specific will happen. There is a 60 percent chance that your Envenom will give you 1 combopoint and if your next Mutilate will crit you will have 4 combopoint exactly, meaning that you just used 1 Mutilate before you are going to use your Envenom. And if you are really about 6.2gs+, this cycle will imply that you will "roll" your Envenom buff further and each time you cast Envenom you may cast it in higher energy, unless you break it by 2 mutilates before envenom. So if you are 6.2gfs rogue or better you should not really use 3 combopoint envenom but use full 5 to drop your pooling energy down.

    However there is a situation when 3 combopoint Envenom is a good idea. If you are forced to switch targets and you just have 3 combopoint on you current target, go Envenom and then switch. Your envenom buff will be extremly valuable on the new target where Deadly poisons are not yet. Also feel free to use 3 combopoint envenom if you really need it like you were forced to stop dps for a moment (like on Blood prince council in ICC) and your Slice and Dice is about to drop.

    And about that experitse. I personally go for experitse cap. Chance to dodge Envenom is extremly low anyway so you maybe can use this little bug once or twice during a fight but i think it does not worth to sacrifice dps loss from autoattack and poisons (which will be reduced becouse dodget autoattack cannot proc poisons) which are basically 2/3 of your overall dps.

    I recommend you to follow these rules about stats:

    1) Go for expertise cap and for the magic hit cap (to ensure poissons never miss).
    2) When your first point ís satisfied, gem Haste in your yellow gems and haste/ap in your red gems.
    3) Try to prioritize: Haste > Crit = Extra Hit > Armor penetration

    There is a tricky thing about crit/hit. These two stats push cap for each other. If your autoattack do 4 percent normal hits (and rest of the attacks is crit or glancing blow or missed) you should really focus on gain that 4 percent higer crit. And vice versa if your autoattack do 65 percent crits but your meele critical chance is let say 68 percent, you should focus on gain 3 percent of hit. With highest priority. But be careful with that idea. Raising these stats together is still behind haste. So build crit/hit only against armor penetration which is quite poor stat for you.

    Regard to what ICC gear looks like I recommend you to avoid armor penetration except these items which are actually bis:

    https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/w...eaker_(heroic)
    https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/w...Scale_(heroic)
    https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/w...Cinch_(heroic)
    https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/w...Boots_(heroic)
    https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/w..._Claw_(heroic)
    https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/w...halas_(heroic)

    Note that most of these items have pretty much strong prebis variant without armor penetration

    https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/w...Skull_(heroic)
    https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/w..._Belt_(heroic)
    https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/w...ollar_(heroic)
    https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/w...Knife_(heroic)

  3. Thanks for the answer,

    i kinda forgot Warmane has several full progressed server, but im playing on Frostmourne right now, being at 4,3gs. But i guess most, if not all explanations count for me as well and not if you're like ICC geared. The topic bout the crit/hit cap was very interesting, regarding the Priority in case of glancing blows or misses.

    http://armory.warmane.com/character/...mourne/summary

    These are my stats. AP should be around 3,4k unbuffed, Haste is around 450. Hit and Expertise is barely capped. Missing some Hitpieces, so rn im forced to gem Hit as well, but it is what it is.

    Cheers

  4. Yea, I also forgot that. I play at Loarderon xD. So I just described assasination for better gear. Many ppl drop assasination as useless on Icecrown Citadel but I think that ppl just did not realize that couple of things has to change in their rotation and even in their opener at that point.

    If you are on Frostmourne and progressing Ulduar at the moment you should shine as assa rogue. Still I reccomend to go full expertise and base hit caps (gem it if necessary). The only disputable question is attack power vs. haste in your gem slots. I belive its really the same even if some guides claim that attack power should be the case in Ulduar season. Some claims that you should go attack power when its value is less then 2000 but it is really not a correct answer. There is no such a point. The correct answer is the more attack power you have the more efficient haste is and vice versa the more haste you have the more attack power efficient is.

    My conclusion is that AP and Haste are very close to each other and I personally preffer Haste oriented rogue becouse it has a positive side effect with compare to straight attack power. It shorts your opener time to reach your 5th deadly poison stack and make you less ****ty on target switch.
    Edited: August 12, 2022

  5. If you are not Expr capped your Melee attacks and mutilate can be and will be parried and Dodged. And for the most part, your DPS is comming from your Melee attacks, than its Instant Poison and than the rest. Envenom is at best 3 in DPS (most of the time is right next to Mutilate). But both Melee attacks and Instant poison will be more than the half of your DMG, so expr is a MUST.
    At least 17% Hit so your poisons are not resisted!
    218 exp (I think this was the number, dont look for the small number but the actual exp)
    And aim for 4k AP just from the gear (I know you are still not in ICC but ...) than go Haste or Crit (both are viable, dont listen to the Crit hasters).
    But for now, cap your Expr and Hit and go for AP on the gems (and gradiualy start changing them to Haste/Crit when you hit the 4k AP).

  6. Most of the time, expertise is a tank talent. Since expertise only applies to when you are in front of a monster, as a tank that's where you are.

    As a dps you are to attack the boss from behind, so if you do that then expertise is useless. so position yourself behind the boss, then should be no problems.

    Also cap your hit.

  7. Thanks for the answer,

    i kinda forgot Warmane has several full progressed server, but im playing on Frostmourne right now, being at 4,3gs. But i guess most, if not all explanations count for me as well and not if you're like ICC geared. The topic bout the crit/hit cap was very interesting, regarding the Priority in case of glancing blows or misses.

    http://armory.warmane.com/character/...mourne/summary

    These are my stats. AP should be around 3,4k unbuffed, Haste is around 450. Hit and Expertise is barely capped. Missing some Hitpieces, so rn im forced to gem Hit as well, but it is what it is.

    Cheers

    Your talents are wrong, take the 5 points out of "Relentless Strikes", throw them into the combat tree to get 3/3 Lightning Reflex's

  8. Expertise cap is 26, because then bosses can't dodge your attacks. They can dodge from behind.

  9. Most of the time, expertise is a tank talent. Since expertise only applies to when you are in front of a monster, as a tank that's where you are.

    As a dps you are to attack the boss from behind, so if you do that then expertise is useless. so position yourself behind the boss, then should be no problems.

    Also cap your hit.
    What a quality text of trash. If you don't know about game stats and mechanics, restrain from commenting on such topics, moreover to give advices to other players.
    Expertise is most important stat for MDPS together with Hit.

  10. Your talents are wrong, take the 5 points out of "Relentless Strikes", throw them into the combat tree to get 3/3 Lightning Reflex's
    Actually, they arent. With my current Gear it just make more sense to specc like that, since youre Energy starved otherwise. I apprecciate it, that you try to help - but like mentioned above please dont spread missinformation like stuff "You dont need expertise, because you attack from behind"

  11. "Melee DPS also benefit from expertise. With sufficient expertise, melee classes can attack their target from the front without being dodged or parried (although facing restrictions, such as those on Backstab or Shred, still apply). It is possible to have enough expertise to prevent dodges and parries, but parries are much harder to prevent, and players without such high expertise values should remain behind the target to prevent parried attacks from increasing the target's attack speed against the tank. "

    taken from a wow website.

  12. That's exactly right. Bosses can parry only from front, however they can dodge from behind(which is why cap is 26). So with 26 exp you stand in back and your attack are neither parried nor dodged.

  13. if you have 26 exp, then it doesn't matter where you stand, which is why its a tank talent.

  14. with 0 expertise:
    from front
    14% chance to parry
    6.5% chance to dodge
    from back
    0% chance to parry
    6.5% chance to dodge

    with 26 expertise:
    from front
    7.5% to parry
    0% chance to dodge
    from back
    0% chance to parry
    0% chance to dodge

    with 56 expertise
    from any position
    0% chance to parry
    0% chance to dodge

    ps, I think parry was 14%, never been relevant so it might be wrong, but the concept applies the same
    Edited: August 16, 2022

  15. ps, I think parry was 14%, never been relevant so it might be wrong
    You're correct, not wrong.

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