Freewind Post in Thousand Needles is ******

[angrylol]

How about you add something to the topic?

[Orvathar]

Oh boy, lots of discussion here.

Let me just clarify that I am not principally against PvP and ganking. "Younglings" being camped by the opposing faction are a natural consequence of open PvP mechanics, so that's just the way things are going to be. But in this particular case, a hunter exploits the aggressive setting on their pet to prevent being logged out due to inactivity, allowing them to passively "auto-gank" quest giver NPCs for much longer durations (days, apparently) than would be possible otherwise. This seems to me like a clear case of exploiting a flaw in the gameplay. Or, from the perspective of ganking-enthusiasts: this hunter has a clear advantage over other classes (rogues, warriors, priests, ...), who have to actively be engaged to do the ganking and cannot sustain their activities for several days straight.

To me it is also questionable that intentionally camping non-player characters constitutes "PvP", and I think that in extreme cases such as this one, in which quest giver NPCs are camped for several days straight, we should consider the possibility that this falls under the header of gameplay interruption. I've seen the phrase "PvP is not bannable" several times in this thread, implying that anything involving PvP is exempted from scrutiny, but given that there is an entire section in the rulebook is dedicated to PvP (https://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=65037), I don't believe this to hold. The analogy of free speech comes to mind, which is a valued right in many countries, but this right usually ends at hate speech and slander. The question to be answered by the community is where to draw this blurry line. Likewise, I think it is healthy to periodically debate whether a given form of PvP violates other rules, in this case being bug exploiting and gameplay disruption.

[angrylol]

Nice try to make it look like an exploit or a bug. All mechanisms there work like they are supposed to. You are missing one important thing that "checks" such "exploits" and "bugs" - any player can kill an afk dude. This can and should be solved in game, all this discussion is just a bunch of whining from people who were put in their place and given reality check.

And about comparison of free speech, you either have it or you don't. There is no "Blurry line", it's clear as day. Generations before you paid rivers of blood to obtain it, then "compassionate and morally white" people put restrictions on it, with "good intentions", "for the greater good" and "compassion", then their children/grandchildren will pay rivers of blood again to regain it. It's all perfectly clear.

But I understand your comparison of it with PVP, if its free, then all extremes are ok, they knew it when they put in a game, no need to pretend as if it's something unforseen. It was designed that way and the counter is other players: extreme ganking vs extreme protection of towns. It's literally "the gameplay".

[Morvion]

im just gonna recap all this ****,
> a pleb hunter got bored enough to dedicate himself to go afk on top of freewind post to let his pet murder everything.
> then a lowbie got killed and couldnt get help from global chat then made this thread, the others manage to get some help from some brave horde chads.
> somehow these brave horde chads failed to throw out this one afk hunter for days.
> then those lowbies still crying, neglecting other options or suggestions while the dipshiit hunter is probably entertained with this thread.

horde is doomed by weaklings.

[jacendi]

I don't understand what is the problem? Some 1.4k pleb killed you with his pet while standing shmelded, so you cry about it on the forum instead of asking for help in the global? Common, this jerk is not a rogue - he can't move while in stealth, so finding and killing him will be easy.

[Orvathar]

Nice try to make it look like an exploit or a bug. All mechanisms there work like they are supposed to. You are missing one important thing that "checks" such "exploits" and "bugs" - any player can kill an afk dude. This can and should be solved in game, all this discussion is just a bunch of whining from people who were put in their place and given reality check.

And about comparison of free speech, you either have it or you don't. There is no "Blurry line", it's clear as day. Generations before you paid rivers of blood to obtain it, then "compassionate and morally white" people put restrictions on it, with "good intentions", "for the greater good" and "compassion", then their children/grandchildren will pay rivers of blood again to regain it. It's all perfectly clear.

But I understand your comparison of it with PVP, if its free, then all extremes are ok, they knew it when they put in a game, no need to pretend as if it's something unforseen. It was designed that way and the counter is other players: extreme ganking vs extreme protection of towns. It's literally "the gameplay".

There are a lot of assertions here that are clearly false. If all mechanisms work like they are supposed to, then we would have no need for rules regarding exploiting. The fact that people get banned for exploiting functional game mechanics indicates that unintended consequences still exist, and I believe that pet auto-ganking is one of them. Similarly, there are very real blurred lines in free speech, as big companies like Facebook and Twitter have come to realise. Simply stating that everything is "perfectly clear" doesn't make it so.

Again, I do not advocate a ban on PvP, which everyone here seems to be zealously defending. What I'm advocating for is a closer look at the scenario that someone can kill essential NPCs while being AFK, using their pet to prevent being logged out from the server, over a period of several days. And if possible I would like to discuss this in a mature and civilised way, without continuously resorting to childish remarks and weird patriotism.

EDIT: to be clear, I never crossed paths with this hunter. I just stumbled upon this thread and thought I could contribute to the discussion

[angrylol]

I'm speaking about the concepts. It is actually perfectly clear. Social media blurrs it themselves, pretending there is some issue, all because they do not want some form of opinions expressed on their show. Same goes here on these forums, same goes anywhere. Only example I know where there is free speech is USA, at least for now, and people are not prosecuted there with a threat of violence and death because they said "something". Line is perfectly clear.

I'm confused where you see childish remarks or patriotism, maybe you just can't grasp what I'm talking about, latching on a surface level of what I mean. You sure as hell didn't address the actual issue thats here:

Anyone can kill an afk dude like they are supposed to, its IMPOSSIBLE for him to do what you say he is doing.

[Morvion]

There are a lot of assertions here that are clearly false. If all mechanisms work like they are supposed to, then we would have no need for rules regarding exploiting. The fact that people get banned for exploiting functional game mechanics indicates that unintended consequences still exist, and I believe that pet auto-ganking is one of them. Similarly, there are very real blurred lines in free speech, as big companies like Facebook and Twitter have come to realise. Simply stating that everything is "perfectly clear" doesn't make it so.

Again, I do not advocate a ban on PvP, which everyone here seems to be zealously defending. What I'm advocating for is a closer look at the scenario that someone can kill essential NPCs while being AFK, using their pet to prevent being logged out from the server, over a period of several days. And if possible I would like to discuss this in a mature and civilised way, without continuously resorting to childish remarks and weird patriotism.

EDIT: to be clear, I never crossed paths with this hunter. I just stumbled upon this thread and thought I could contribute to the discussion

if u read this whole thread from the first page, u will see people gave pretty much mature and civil suggestions, but people tend to fail to understand.

we're not zealously defending the hunter behaviour or this thing u see as 'exploiting'. we're just saying that its allowed as stated in the Players Code of Conduct in the Rules for Game and Forums, as it counts as wpvp encounter where npcs getting killed is expected as npcs are designed to be killable and respawn. its only counted as exploit if u bug the npc where it needs GM/staff to fix it. in this case, players only need to kill this ONE pleb hunter to move on, but somehow they couldnt, and the lowbies insist on leveling there.

[OhieMitzen]

You have the tools to not get repeatedly ganked, how about you use them? Stop making yourself the victim you oh so much want to be. Or is it just easier for you to point finger and command others to do something about it? You've tried nothing and you're already out of options.

If you hate other players negatively effecting your gameplay, consider switching to single-player games. Maybe something that's aimed for 4-10 yo's.

Every time I level a new character, I might get ganked, but never camped. If it looks like camping is about to start, I move away to greener pastures. Why are you so adamant on subjecting yourself to place, that's known to be camped, only to get the same exp you'd get somewhere else.

What are campers gonna do if I'm playing another game, I'm in safety of a city, while I'm in RDF, or while flying between zones?

Or maybe it's just me, who doesn't log my other faction characters, and throw some fuel for the fire via whispers.

I don't know how people get stuck in loop:
1. Get killed (or ganked).
2. Release and run to body to resurrect (killer/ganker in sight or not).
3. Continue as nothing ever happened.
4. Die again.
5. Release and run to body to resurrect (killer/ganker in sight or not).
6. Continue as nothing ever happened.
7. Die again.
..
97. Die again.

Like how do these people think anything would change after two deaths?!? This is why I have hard time believing somebody getting ganked for two hours, unless it's targeted ganking. This would usually be sparked by contacting the ganker and name calling/asking to stop. Even then, can't get ganked in safe zones or in RDF.

I would assume you never bothered to do character unstuck and do RDF's from the safety of a major city. Or logged out and played other game. And if you can't do that, you probably deserve to be ganked 24/7, as you can't seem to be able to think for a second, on how to get away from the situation you're stupidly forcing yourself to be in. Stop playing the victim card and learn to live with negative experiences.
Grow yourself a thicker skin, because you'll need it.

Ganking has few goals:
- Annoying players, which seems to work wonderfully. I wonder why they keep doing it? Hmm..
- Drive out competition of their own alt.
- Seeking reactionary wPvP with "mains".
- "If it's red, it's dead".
- "Roleplaying".
- Killing time.

Is ganker's fun wrong? Is you being safe from PvP right?

Dying to AFK person's pet? FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!

[Althador]

Just to be clear, after a few times of making the hunter pet go out of sight he just logges with his DK named Skullmassage or his lvl 80 rogue this guy just dedicates his whole life ganking low lvls, everyone has their gamestyle I suppose

[Persivaln]

There are always max level people with good>great>best gear that are willing to help for free. And if you "toss a coin to your witcher" to get rid of said monstrous hunter, it will be solved for sure.

But if you are unable to communicate with others, go play retail reservation with their Warmode

[Orvathar]

its only counted as exploit if u bug the npc where it needs GM/staff to fix it

Not according to the rule book, which mentions forms of misconduct that are not necessarily related to bugs. Under "NO SOCIAL MISTREATMENT OR ANNOYANCE" it is stated that "Using minor exploits or poorly designed parts of game mechanics to noticably interfere with other players' gameplay" is an offence. Doesn't preventing yourself from getting logged out of the server not fall under this?

You sure as hell didn't address the actual issue thats here: Anyone can kill an afk dude like they are supposed to, its IMPOSSIBLE for him to do what you say he is doing.

Let me gather my lvl 25 friends to defend the town against a lvl 80 pet and its full arena-geared master. A brave undertaking indeed... It is only possible for a reasonably geared lvl 80 player, which makes new players completely dependent on the kindness and gear of strangers they may find in the global chat.

You have the tools to not get repeatedly ganked, how about you use them? [...] Or is it just easier for you to point finger and command others to do something about it? You've tried nothing and you're already out of options.

The problem is not so much getting ganked, but more that all of the essential quest givers in the area are dead 24/7, disabling the entire region for those who want to do some casual lvling. Nothing to do about that but to go to another area, which may or may not be under similar assault (like Tarren Mill).

The main "solution" proposed in this thread is to continuously ask others in global to come and try to clear out the hunter. Of course, the hunter could return, so these good Samaritans will have to stay and protect the town while the younglings do their questing. This is not unlike the "commanding others" that you refer to, except that Warmane staff wouldn't have to spend their entire day sitting around in a low-level zone guarding a bunch of NPCs.

Just to re-focus the discussion on my main point: preventing oneself from going AFK and using a pet to continuously kill essential NPCs seems like a form of exploiting a weakness in the game mechanics. If preventing going AFK in battlegrounds is punishable, then so should preventing going AFK in world PvP.

Grow yourself a thicker skin, because you'll need it.

I repeat again: it is not me who was affected by this hunter's actions. I usually do my lvling through RDF, so I'm pretty safe from ganking most of the time. Dermatological advice should be directed to the original poster, who has long left the discussion...

Only example I know where there is free speech is USA

Freedom eagle intensifies...

[Shred92]

All this discussion has made it clear to me that people don't get ganked often enough.

[angrylol]

Not according to the rule book, which mentions forms of misconduct that are not necessarily related to bugs. Under "NO SOCIAL MISTREATMENT OR ANNOYANCE" it is stated that "Using minor exploits or poorly designed parts of game mechanics to noticably interfere with other players' gameplay" is an offence. Doesn't preventing yourself from getting logged out of the server not fall under this?

By this logic if I try to mine some ores and I get killed constantly, that guy/guys should get banned, because they are mistreating and annoying me.

Let me gather my lvl 25 friends to defend the town against a lvl 80 pet and its full arena-geared master. A brave undertaking indeed... It is only possible for a reasonably geared lvl 80 player, which makes new players completely dependent on the kindness and gear of strangers they may find in the global chat.

That's how it supposed to be. Strong are strong and weak are weak, it's literally definition of those words. If someone strong does not let you go there - you will not go there. Unless of coarse you do that MMORPG thing.

Freedom eagle intensifies...

Well, it's true. They are right to proud of it. Every single other country in the world can only be jealous, because any other place on earth saying the wrong thing the government can kill you, legally.

[Orvathar]

By this logic if I try to mine some ores and I get killed constantly, that guy/guys should get banned, because they are mistreating and annoying me.

You are referring to the section header, not the contents that follows. It is not the fact that you are annoyed that qualifies for a ban, but the fact that a "poorly designed part of the game mechanics" (= preventing being logged out) was exploited to "noticeably interfere with other players' gameplay" (= camping essential NPCs).

That's how it supposed to be. Strong are strong and weak are weak

This is a "winner takes all" mentality that conflicts with the Code of Conduct ("We prize for a fun environment for everybody, meaning all players should follow that philosophy").