What? You have standards? Selling frostmourne is a standard? It literally dominated blows all other weapons out of the water and was a legendary for a reason. The grind was made so it would be hard to obtain, so there wasn't going to be thousands of them destroying balance on servers. But you committed to that without much restraint or thought process.
You condemn the idea of a working shop, something that works PERFECTLY FINE on other private servers dealing with the same traffic as you do and the first thing you think to do, is add gear in cause 'people wants gear' no s**t genius, that is the entire point of the game structure, you even get gear as you level. But what you are suggesting is to undercut the entire point and purpose of logging on, the progression of and the point of grinding and being online, you are literally willing to kill the server before its even started because you are clearly justifying the fact that you see no problem with giving people a p2w option instead of doing something meaningful, like making a person behave in a decent way, to get a guild, attend raids and help members out with attunements and such, you are defeating the entire journey of wow and why the community was so good in the old days. Tbh you are actually no better than the marketeers working at blizzard now with the frame of mind. You haven't offered any middle ground, debated the potential for a cosmetic shop. Sounds like this server is dead on arrival.
SOME of my suggestions were SUGGESTIONS, IDEAS, food for thought in order to help you create a decent shop that will fund your servers. You completely glossed over everything and started on about standards and yet your one of the only private server i know of that sells gear and weapons as a means of income rather than a last resort.
Tell me why a shop based on the cosmetics and conveniences i have suggested wont work and why your standards are better?
No one gives a crap about grind for hours every day and night to get an epic ground mount, offering a fee to skip this daft grind doesn't game break, it just lets people get on with things sooner. Dual spec is a logical one, why not charge people for the second spec, you think people will refuse to pay it in vanilla? (Again logical predictions based on sense.) Bigger bag spaces, oh yes, this will definitely game break... Everyone knows carrying multiple sets of gear, ingredients for professions and potions takes up all the space you can get, allowing people to buy perhaps 2x 32 slot bags for your character would be logical because its something everyone needs. And by only allowing there to be 2x bags bought people will still need the ingame mooncloth bags.
Mount skins, or gear colours is just a simple solution to individualism, people want to buy something that makes them stand out, you are in a generation of narcissism, where game companies make BILLIONS selling skins and a fraction selling the game itself. (Business trends around what consumers want, otherwise it wouldn't make good business)
Toys, the tcg loot toys, since you will be working with a wrath client could technically include everything from vanilla to wrath and that is a fortune. I spent 360€ myself on the private server buying toys for my character because like most wpvpers i like playing buckaroo with my victim. It is also a status thing, people buy them to stand out, to be popular or to bring joy to people (such as the foam sword fights on org bank roof). There is a ridiculous amount of money to be made off these items and the thing is you can only sell all of this to 1 character. If your server model is that you let people grind gear and give no methods for people to get catch up you create a server that lasts longer and people have more time to invest more money on their characters.
Have you actually ever seen all the TCG loot stuff from vanilla to wrath? Do you know some of them are not permanent, like paintballs and pet cookies. Do you not think every single wpvper would want to get the flag of ownership?
Again, you haven't even researched or thought this process out, you are just jumping to the easiest thing you can think of and destroying what ever word of mouth or reputation you might have had doing this. And you will shoot yourself in the foot doing this, even people playing normally will wonder why they should even bother, when they can just go play some other game until the next patch releases and they can buy the tier sets. You give no reason for people to stay invested on the server. And you think because the business model works great on wrath it will adapt well here too but vanilla is a primitive game, where most fights can be over in 3 seconds with good gear.
I'm a wpvper, a griefer and i am telling you, you are going to destroy the server offering wpvpers this bounty. To any wpvper thinking this is heretical, think about the pvers, our livestock, getting bored of playing or grinding raids when they can just sit stuff out. We wont get any sporadic fights it will just devolve into petty guild feuds and numbers games. Like how crappy retail became because of it.
But i am aware from the responses from your warmane staff that the real reason you want to sell gear is so you have an excuse to start selling legendaries too. And that is where you'll completely destroy the progress servers. Why even do quest chains or help out guild members, when you can just buy your legendary. And there is a few legendary weapons in vanilla that i can see you making the excuse to sell. All of which are massively game breaking in the periods in which they release.
And vanity and cosmetic items may be secondary but that doesn't justify breaking the game to give people something they don't deserve. Your arguments aren't even logical, in the context of the server. You even stated this is a 'progression server'. A server in which you want to progress and yet you will do this first by removing the need to progress, offering people gear and legendaries at the expense of everyone else, just because you have no idea how to market your shop efficiently. You think the people who grind for the scarab lord are going to appreciate you selling their legendary mount for a few shekels?
Oh wow, set amount of certain drops? You mean like completing a nearly 18 year old dungeon that has been mapped out on speed dial once or twice before they can be sure they will absolutely get a piece of gear with their credit card instead of having to compete with the 14 other mages in their guild each week, which may be frustrating but gives you a huge sense of achievement and gives you a reason to log on every week to slog through multiple runs for the 'chance' of being a winner this week? Wow, this just totally justifies destroying your community for that person that cannot offer the same amount of time as the ones who can.
You know i always agreed, people should be given damage buffs in fps games when they don't have as much time as everyone else to grind through the progression ranking. It would be unfair to the guy who has to head off down the pub on a friday night, sacrificing his social life, to have to commit to something in a game built around reward for effort. This is a fantastic mountain to die on when it comes to arguing your point.
This is the very same attitude that people always say before they regret it later. Your business model is stagnating with only wrath servers, hence WHY you are doing vanilla ones. Criticism is one thing you will have to endure, you offer a service and it will never be for everyone but there are ways in which you can compromise without selling out your own principles. What you are saying however is typical millennial dogcrap. If you don't like it don't play it. In other words, i cannot argue, discuss or be rational, even remotely logical because you either do what i tell you, or you can f*** off. How mature.
Do you speak for everyone at warmane? Because in case you hadn't noticed although i am against p2w as a service i really really do want to support your endeavour and bring my people over here and enjoy the good times and support the store and the community. But you are telling me and anyone who has concerns on the shop and wants to make it better without wrecking the server to literally just take a hike. There is no discussion. And you know what, from the attitude on this topic i am very likely not to support this project and many many many others that you are willing to ostracise for the sake of your own echo-chamber will not tolerate or want to support a server run by absolutists. You're not doing this server for the community or for the potential growth of your business, you are just doing this because your sales in wrath have flattened and it cannot sustain itself anymore. You need something NEW in order to get the whales to want to rebuy more things.
Fair enough. Good luck with your server so, i won't be joining it.
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Banned
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Member
Yes we are all crying about you not joining. Go make your own servers lil butthurt disrespectful know-it-all
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Banned
LoL, irony, you should look that up. Again, no argument, no discussion, nothing to contribute, no break down of my points or additional ones of your own. Just a quick to the point 'no you' and an infantile one liner. You remind me of that cliche in hollywood films, like the third generation inbred hick sitting on a old wooden rocking chair, a shotgun in your hand and a spit bucket beside you, saying 'we don tak to ur kind round ere'...
But the irony is that you are telling me i am butthurt when i am literally just trying to suggest improvement and protection of the server, against a practice that almost all gamers hate and yet your first response is to tell me to go play elsewhere. HAHAHA, okay son, don't worry goy.
KeK
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Member
hehe, 69th page of replies
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Member
Almost all gamers hate?
Can we please get a link to the research amongst gamers?
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Field Medic Moderator
Shadowmourne* has only ever been sold on Icecrown. It is one realm out of nearly a dozen realms that have existed in the last 7-8 years. I thought I explained this already, so stop trying to misrepresent Warmane with the one example. You're sounding like Reddit right now. You're acting in bad faith right now, and it is deplorable.
Oh my dear sweet summer child...
Well, for starters, we have already done that. *Several* times. Never once did the realm manage to fund itself.
I would say that you lost the right to insist others provide arguments or claims against you when you fail to listen to the others who have already done so.
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Member
Do you use reddit by any chance?
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Banned
Hold on i find you the one master link that will have all the answers that you still won't read even if it existed.
Is it possible for players on that realm to migrate off it to other servers? And do players of the realm have any interaction with players in other realms via battlegrounds or arena?
So i lost the right to ask people to debate the topic because i disagreed with the way in which most people did not address the issues... Right, gotchya!
Anyway, doesn't matter, not joining your p2w server. You don't have to care about me throwing a spanner into the works and i don't have to read your dumb, non-argument, chimp talk. Thank God.
GL with the project.
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Forum Veteran
Sure, I'll bite on this "my ideas are the best, follow them or your longlasting server is DOOMED". Your complaints of P2W aren't new. They've been heard countless times. People come here and say how P2W is so bad.. It's so bad Icecrown is still popular after 8 years. More popular than Lordaeron that has limited store functions. How do you think Frostmourne was funded, where do you think the money came from? This is why I can dismiss a lot of what you've said already.
Why does it bother you that somebody bought piece of gear or two? It's not out of your pocket now is it? You're saying mounts and riding could be in the shop. That's P2W, you can now run at 100% speed, so you can outrun any 60% speed mount and get majority of gathering nodes before they do. Why is gear the holy aspect of "P2W", while mount, bag spaces, and dual specs aren't? More bag spaces = more items = fewer trips to AH/bank/vendor = more sustained profit. Dual spec means better chance to get a raid slot, so you have unfair advantage at that too.
What about those who don't have time to grind? You're willing to sell them a work horse, but you're not willing to sell them some cutlery to eat with?
Cosmetics/vanities don't sell. WoW is MMORPG, and it revolves around gear. Nobody needs cosmetics, so they are optional. You can't capitalize on something 80% of the player base isn't that interested of. You do know that money spenders also think of the practicality of their purchases. I know fun factor is also something, though when it's about practicality vs fun, people would prefer both. Big numbers are practical and fun, trinkets are the best!
I'm not gonna delve deeper to your idea of having dual spec being something you'd have to pay for. Sounds like scummy practice that's prevalent in modern games where you remove a feature from the game while it's being made, only to sell it later with a price tag. Another prime example, TCG items, FOMO sells. You're trying to sell stuff that many games considers to be scummy practices that should be stopped. Do you even stop to think for a second? Warmane Battle Pass when?
Somebody buying a piece of gear isn't the end of the world as you write it. I have BiS characters, I still play them because it's fun. Having BiS gear doesn't really stop many players from playing said characters. It almost sounds like you don't really have friends in the guild. Can't be happy for others to get their gear drop? Can't have your friend obtaining that nice item, because you need it more. I have character(s) with store bought items, and I occasionally go to random raids and help people gear. I'm such a monster with my P2W gear ikr.
Well, since you brought the FPS games up to compare RPG.. okay. Arena, like many FPS games, are based on MMR. MMR doesn't give a flying **** about your gear, you could have good gear, or bad gear. You get matched according to your capabilities. Buying gear won't make you reach the high MMR, as you get wrecked with actual skill. Gear helps to a degree, but it's not as much as you'd like to think it does. Low MMR and high gear? You get ridiculed for lack of skill (but hey, it was supposed to be P2W!!). High MMR and high gear? You get donor bashed. Medium MMR and high gear? Nobody really bats an eye.
Frostmourne had a shop. Do you consider it P2W server too? Mind you, it was 3 seasons, and it didn't exactly die, now did it?
You overworry so much of "P2W" that you're denying yourself of the possibility to have fun. Damn dude..
To quit over something small. You really made a horse out of a fly.
I don't condemn the idea of working shop, but you seem to be a bit of an outsider, and you come here to tell the Staff how to run a shop after all these years?
Thanks for the laugh.
Who is the absolutist now?
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Member
dude, you write a manifesto for a 15 years old game, on a private server, with custom shop for years. and you worried about an axe and some random elemental shaman, lock destro or marksman hunter could tear apart
let's other have all the gear they want, it doesn't change nothing, you know the player they are, i know it, everbody knows it. this full geared dk dude gonna come to warsong hold in borean tundra, start killing thousands of lows laughing like a psychopath with a boner in his pants, red eyes, clenched teeth, a 3 inches hunchback. an 80 all green and blue gonna kills him, and he gonna log out and don't come back like for an hour.
im really exited dude, i love it, i need it
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Member
I have donated to Warmane in the past and did that in order to support the project. However, with every passing day I regret that decision more and more.
Mainly because I am supporting financialy a group of people that are not communicating with their players. Months have passed since the "teaser announcement" and not a single update since then.
Now, probably a moderator will come out and say the usual "they will give update when there are updates" but this is a weak response. Are you telling us that Warmane made absolutely no progress thats worth atleast a 2 paragraph update?
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Moderator
Of course not.
But there was never any intention to give any sort of "continuous updates" on the progress, nor any implication that something like that would happen. All that was said is a thread with more details would come in the near future, which, as many players have said themselves many times, doesn't have to mean "next week or earlier." We are doing exactly what we said we would.
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Member
I donated a bit over the years (exalted cough*) for my paladin Yipi and alts and i do not regret it. I’d rather spend here than on an official Blizzard website.
They stated since the beginning we will not have info before it happens.
I’m expecting a PTR in September/October and the server launch Nov/December.
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Member
regarding buying equipment and why it's wrong.
The situation on the icecrown server is that you have to buy the equipment, pay for the character boost, otherwise you will never finish the raid. To get inv on raid you need items, achievement and luck.
For example, today I had a situation where a raid leader collected a raid from 6.0 GS, promised a full normal run, and the raid broke up after the gunship. We failed to kill the saurfang. It turned out that half of the people had PVP items, dps had some melee dps items, some spell power. And raid leader said, that he checked GS, he doesnt know about class items...
The point is that because people buy items without knowing their class, they take away the ability to play for people who have lower items but know their class.
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Member
Hey, maybe I have a unpopular opinion, but I'm glad they are not announcing any release date or any more info, it would only make up premature hype and false promises. They should take their time with finishing everything up so we have the best non-blizz classic progression server, with almost no bugs and a big community.
